jake1191

iTrader: (1)

Long story short i am contemplating a 20b to make 700whp a little bit easier than it would be with a 13b. I am a serious builder not just some dreamer. This car will be built this coming summer and next fall.

With all that out of the way here is the story of the car. It already has a beefed up Turbo II trans and rear. So the car is set as far as that goes. What i want to build is something i can Initially tune for 400-500whp but have the capability of making 700whp or more and still be a good running car. The car will be a widebody to run big enough tires to help some with traction issues and will of course be on coilovers.

As far as EMS i plan on a haltech platinum sport 2000. As far as porting i will absolutely be doing a large street port and would like opinions on a bridgeported setup. I am willing to send out the parts to be balanced for increased RPMS as well.

I will be going large single turbo as well. I need suggestions for a size. I really like the Garett Ball-bearing turbos and Turbonetics ball bearing turbos so suggestions of those would be great.

The next matter is Exhaust. I would like to run a 4 inch downpipe and 4 inch exhaust as well. Anyone have suggestions to go bigger or smaller?


My biggest question is would i be better off buying some Used housings and such and piecing a 20b together or to buy a complete long block?

mazdafun

Hi.

Last question first - Get a complete block instead of piecing one together.

The rest of the questions (there are quite a few) are answered many, many times on this forum. I would suggest a search, and spend a fair bit of hours planning and reading this forum. If you are buying all these parts, ask these questions to your vendor, and listen closely to his/hers reply.

Good luck on your project.

Jimmy2222

iTrader: (3)

Yeah I would assume it would be easier to find a whole running motor than it would be to find the center irons (although I could be wrong).

As for your goal, I think it can be done relatively easily in the world of three rotors. Hell, with enough effort you could make that N/A (although you wouldn't really be able to "up" it to 700 whenever you like).

As for sizes on turbo's I have no real expertise but I've seen others running GT42(R)'s and other similarly sized BW turbos. Just look around at other builds of comparable power/port setups.

Just some food for though, there's no doubt in my mind that a PS 2000 can run the motor, but you might want to have a look into Motec's, just another alternative that you might find interesting. I'm honestly have no idea what the price of either of these ECU's so I'm not sure if they're really on par, but either way, I have seen them in a few of the best builds I've seen.

As mazdafun said, begin looking around here and reading a lot. I've been lurking around here for a little while just gaining the knowledge in case I ever do want to build one some time in the future.

GL with your build (make a build thread!)

Stredrotor

Go the Twenty B I agree buy a complete engine, inlet manifold, throttle body, TPS, CAS, alternator and mounts. It makes it all easier with the install and saves chasing parts. I would go that way if I did it again. I have a GT42R for my 20b and aiming for 500hp at the wheels on relatively low boost. I have a 3 1/2 inch dump and will probably go the same for the rest of the system. Anyway good luck with the project!

Chris

jake1191

iTrader: (1)

Well from all the youtube videos i have been watching and the threads i have been reading I am pretty much dead set on a 20b. Some of the things i have read people are making ~700whp on 20psi which is much safer than trying to make that on the 13b i was planning and from what i have been tossing around it will be cheaper as well.

As for the EMS i am dead set on haltech. I have been looking into different EMS for the last 2 years or so and haltech is what fits me the best. Plus the fact that they cost around $1800 for the build your own harness setups and that includes a few sensors.

As for exhaust as long as 3.5 inch is good what could it hurt, other than my relationship with my neighbors and my ear drums, to step up to 4 inch from the turbo all the way back?

Is anything from rotary works work the money spent or arent they soo good?

Next Question is there anyway for me to keep A/C and power steering or is it too much headache to bother with?

Japan2LA

iTrader: (256)

I seriously doubt that...

61620B

building a 20B setup takes lots of skill and money in hand........your gonna spend around 2Ok when the car is done professionally done right.

I have build many 20B setups with A/C,power steering you name it.....

Get a pen and paper and write down everything you will need......hit up Japan2LA for engine,he has all the engines available to start the project.

patman

iTrader: (3)

How beefed up is your drivetrain? you are talking about a serious increase in torque.

I would recommend against a bridgeport- it isnt necessary fro that power level and 20b irons are getting rare, so its not a good idea to screw one up.

gt40r or equivalent would be good for that power range, 42r if you want expansion potential.

4" exhaust is a good idea. These things flow a lot of CFM. No need to go bigger, it is just harder to find pipe and isnt necessary.

you can keep PS and AC but it will make fitment much harder.

jake1191

iTrader: (1)

I have an S5 TII trans that was completely rebuilt and WPC treated. Same goes for the ring and pinon in the rear. I also have a set of chromoly axles in the back. The whole drivetrain was bought from someone who used this stuff in a 700+whp drag car on slicks.

Japan2LA

iTrader: (256)

Your trans will not last long behind a 20B

Zero R

iTrader: (1)

500+whp 400+ft/lbs@10psi equals wheelspin at 80mph on 315's just food for thought. 750whp is useless other than to say you have it.

~S~

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

I have a 700rwhp 13b and that dosnt have anywere near the torque your 700rhp 20b would have and my car is absolutely useless on street tyres in any gear. unless the car is on drag tyres its a dyno queen.

jamespond24

iTrader: (13)

Nice #. Mind sharing your setup?

thanks

jake1191

iTrader: (1)

Like i said i would like something that i can have tuned down, for lack of better words, to about 500whp but still have the ability to expand if i ever feel the need which should also help with keeping it together for some time.

As far as the trans i havent done much research yet but i didnt figure the trans would hold up anyways but that just leaves something to be upgraded when it breaks. I will be prepared for this.

The car will not be a drag car at all and probably wont be much more than a Go-fast/show car. That and to say i built it and all that.

As far as a purpose built car thats what my mustang will be when its done. That as well is getting a turbo and yes i know they are 2 completely different animals.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

theres a guy who occasionally brings a 700+ hp 911 to the track, its so violent it might even be too much for the track.

it takes A LOT of driver for that much HP.

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

I have no problems controlling the 621whp/482wtq (MD) that my 20B is currently making. Having the proper tire and suspension setup is very important. It does not spin the tires nearly as much or as unpredictably as one would think. Once the car is going fast enough the extra down force created helps to keep it more stable. Granted you can spin the tires at will in 2nd gear. However, it is not like the car makes all that power at 1000rpm, so it is very streetable, not violent at all. Now this is all in a 3rd gen.

The OP wants to do this to a 2nd gen Vert, we also have a 451whp 13b-re powered 91 Vert, this is a very streetable car as well. It is however completely different in every aspect to the 20B FD.

Zero R

iTrader: (1)

Spoken like someone who's gotten jaded (self included) driving high hp RX7's Agreed a 20B FD is more manageable than a high HP 13B they just have a nicer smoother delivery of power no tow ways about it. That said, sticking the average run of the mill guy behind the wheel of 500+whp 2900lb car is asking for accidents. I think you and I as well as others in our field get used to it. It used to be a running joke at some of the dodge dealerships because it was common for new viper owners to literally wreck their car on the way home. Heck when I had mine with 345's on back and only minor upgrades I could easily break lose the car at almost anytime/speed I wanted and aero or suspension weren't a concern on that car. I'd give up a 100whp be happy with 650whp or less and focus on response.

~S~

jake1191

iTrader: (1)

As i said my biggest concern is i want expandability. I want to initially have a ~500whp car and be able to turn up the boost and retune for more if i ever decide i want to have more power. Which is doubtful but i like to over build if you will. Such as my mustang. Right now its making 402rwhp but the entire engine is actually built to hold 1400whp. Yes it cost me $10k to make a slow *** mustang but in the end when it gets FI it will be well worth it.

Not to toot my own horn but i have completed 3 auto-x schools and 2 road racing schools. Its nice to live 5 miles from a racetrack

Fun is what this build is all about as well. I know im going to have much more fun building something unique and durable than trying to build something that will be a pain in the *** to keep together(700whp 13b) and the 20b will be less money than trying to do a 700whp 13b as well.

Zero R

iTrader: (1)

Simple setup, 4202, 1.0 rear, new rotor housing with small street port simply matched the port to the sleeve, simple clean up of the intake ports no major port work as it wasn't really needed just changed the timing, 12x20x3.5 core, Fd rotors that's it. The only way to build them is with FD rotors in my opinion but everyone has their way. We've noticed easier power and crisper response every time when compared to 20B's we've built with 20B rotors and since we've ran 55psi+ on them without issue it makes sense since 20B's need little boost to make power with a proper setup and tune.

~S~

rotaryinspired

iTrader: (3)

what numbers do you see at 55PSI on the 20B?

Zero R

iTrader: (1)

55psi+ was on FD rotors not on a 20B.


~S~

ORANGESP

iTrader: (1)

If anybody has a totaled car with a GOOD20b and whateverelse is remaining,,,,

I want a deal on 20b!!!

thanks

jake1191

iTrader: (1)

I am also not one to push my car to its limits unless it is at the track. And yet again this will be a car that comes out a very few times during the year. I already have a full cage in the car and some bride GIAS in the car. along with 5 pt harnesses not that any of that will help if it was crashed at speed. I am not the average "way too cocky about my self" driver.

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

Ok, so what is holding you back from starting the project? Are you still waiting on some sort of answer from somone on this forum?

Go with a GT42R or similar turbo, you will have over 500whp at 10psi, with expandability as you previously requested. Turbo is very capable of huge HP and has great response.

Here is a link to our project 20B FD with GT42RS, complete with Dyno sheets, vids, mods lists etc, http://www.banzai-racing.com/20B_modifications1.htm

You are going to need a set of our 13B-RE/20B installation brackets, these get the engine into the car http://banzai-racing.com/store/13B-R..._brackets.html

jake1191

iTrader: (1)

I have made the decision to positively go 20b. The only thing keeping me from starting is the job i work at has me down to 26 hours a week until christmas which is when i will be back to 40hrs a week and able to start saving my money to get the engine and start a stock pile of parts. I wont actually be doing the swap until summer time because thats when i come into some really good money.