Nitrous?
02-09-07, 06:21 PM
#1
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Nitrous?
Anyone running it on the 20B?
Some luck led to a NXpress sponsorship so now I am trying to figure out the best way to run it...
Any suggestions?
Some luck led to a NXpress sponsorship so now I am trying to figure out the best way to run it...
Any suggestions?
02-09-07, 08:30 PM
#2
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ur gonna **** your pants. that nitrous is never even gettin touched. you dont even know it yet. lololol ooo man tom can we turn it down to 12psi? please 15psi is too much. lol
02-10-07, 05:52 AM
#3
Rotary Enthusiast
yeah man ...nitrous ...why?....there realy isnt going to be time to push any buttons even so youre gonna be more busy trying to keep it straight then anything else , at 10PSI and still badly in need of a decent tune i have problems keeping mine straight in 3rd gear ....maybe use the nitrous for show or something dude seriously its no joke !!
02-12-07, 09:43 AM
#6
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Originally Posted by Rx7_Nut13B
Spray it into the exhaust manifold right before the turbo to spool it faster
Also i couldn`t imagine spooling it faster though ,...maybe on a really big turbo ??
02-12-07, 09:51 AM
#7
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You ignite the nitrous there with fuel and a glow plug... don't use too much, don't forget this is facing the exhaust side of your engine so it all goes right into backpressure. You'll shoot fire out your tailpipe too.
Not sure if this would really accomplish anything or not, would be fun to watch on youtube though.
Not sure if this would really accomplish anything or not, would be fun to watch on youtube though.
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02-12-07, 10:35 AM
#8
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hahahaha. Isnt there another way to spool the turbo with nitrous? I have heard this is being done...I also know the ball bearing GT42R will spool pretty quickly...
02-12-07, 10:53 AM
#9
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well, you could inject it pre-turbo, and it should help make the compression taking place more isothermal (not sure on the extent to which this is true because i don't know the specific heat capacity of nitrous) which means that your turbo will have to do a lot less work to achieve the same boost levels.
i'd definitely like to see you go this route for personal, unsponsored curiousity's sake.
good luck man
ryan
i'd definitely like to see you go this route for personal, unsponsored curiousity's sake.
good luck man
ryan
02-12-07, 11:49 AM
#10
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Originally Posted by mirabile
hahahaha. Isnt there another way to spool the turbo with nitrous? I have heard this is being done...I also know the ball bearing GT42R will spool pretty quickly...
I have never seen it used in the exhaust though ....like stated before ...should be fun to watch on youtube !!.........care to try??
02-12-07, 07:37 PM
#11
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I think if you sprayed the nitrous pre-turbo, it would just heat up a bit but not absorb much heat. For instance, to take water from a saturated liquid at 32 degrees F (meaning, it's all water, no ice, at 32 degrees) to a saturated liquid at 212 degrees F (same thing, except it's 212 degrees), it takes about 190 BTU's per lbm of water. Now to take it from a saturated liquid at 212 F to a saturated vapor at 212 F (meaning, no change in temperature, only the phase change... the liquid evaporated), it takes an additional 900 BTU's per lbm of water. So most of the heat you absorb from something like water injection is absorbed because of the phase change, not the temperature change.
Nitrous changes phases as it comes out of the bottle due to the large pressure drop, so you wouldn't get the benefits of the phase change. It's already a gas once it reaches the turbo. I would be interested to see the effects that methanol injected pre-turbo would produce, however.
I don't see the point in injecting nitrous in the exhaust manifold to spool a turbo. Mainly because you'd have to inject fuel, which would've combusted on it's own.
There are other ways to get anti-lag, like retarding the timing. My DSM will build however much boost you like off the line with a simple clutch switch.
Nitrous changes phases as it comes out of the bottle due to the large pressure drop, so you wouldn't get the benefits of the phase change. It's already a gas once it reaches the turbo. I would be interested to see the effects that methanol injected pre-turbo would produce, however.
I don't see the point in injecting nitrous in the exhaust manifold to spool a turbo. Mainly because you'd have to inject fuel, which would've combusted on it's own.
There are other ways to get anti-lag, like retarding the timing. My DSM will build however much boost you like off the line with a simple clutch switch.
02-12-07, 08:37 PM
#12
generally when someone says they spool the turbo with nitrous, they dont mean that they actually spray nitrous into the turbo, they mean that they use the extra boost in power to increase rpm quicker and extra volumetric flow of exhaust gasses to spool the turbo...
02-12-07, 09:26 PM
#14
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by mrroboto187
maybe you could get their front mount n-tercooler system. i think that's nitrous xpress.
Already done,
as well as a new front mount inter cooler that has an integrated CO2 channel in order to cool intake temps up to 65%.
So I am already experimenting here. The more things to experiment with, the better.
02-12-07, 10:45 PM
#15
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i wasn't counting on any phase change when i made the suggestion ( which like i said when i made it, i was very unsure of because i didn't know the specific heat capacity of nitrous )
people injecting water pre-turbo don't count on a phase change at all. . .compressing air doesn't generate that much heat. . .think about it. . .what is your average AIT pre intercooler? it's nothing near the boiling point of water, and air has a substantially lower specific heat, meaning that if it absorbed as much energy as water, it would be a lot warmer. . .
the aim of injecting anything pre-turbo is to make the compression more isothermal, where as it is largely adiabatic without any sort of injectant. . . i will be the first to say that the outcome will not be as dramatic as that produced by it actually burning in the motor, but it will still do that as well with this technique. this has the added advantage ( possibly ) of making the turbo have to do less work, resulting in the same boost levels at lower RPMs.
ryan
people injecting water pre-turbo don't count on a phase change at all. . .compressing air doesn't generate that much heat. . .think about it. . .what is your average AIT pre intercooler? it's nothing near the boiling point of water, and air has a substantially lower specific heat, meaning that if it absorbed as much energy as water, it would be a lot warmer. . .
the aim of injecting anything pre-turbo is to make the compression more isothermal, where as it is largely adiabatic without any sort of injectant. . . i will be the first to say that the outcome will not be as dramatic as that produced by it actually burning in the motor, but it will still do that as well with this technique. this has the added advantage ( possibly ) of making the turbo have to do less work, resulting in the same boost levels at lower RPMs.
ryan
02-13-07, 04:51 AM
#16
Ok i don't have a video of this type of setup, but what my buddy, none rotary guy. But he has used this type of setup on a Honda with a (In my own words TO BIG) Turbo . He makes the fuel map really rich so that not all the fuel is burt in the power stroke so it is loading up the exhaust with lots of raw fuel. But there isn't enuff O2 to burn this, so the NO2 introduces O2 into this overly rich exhaust system and it explodes outside of the engine in the turbo collector.
He explains its like having twice the exhaust flow from his motor.
I am not saying that this is the best setup, but i have been in his car and seen the System on and System off, and there is a Big change.
He explains its like having twice the exhaust flow from his motor.
I am not saying that this is the best setup, but i have been in his car and seen the System on and System off, and there is a Big change.
02-13-07, 11:54 AM
#17
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Originally Posted by Rx7_Nut13B
Ok i don't have a video of this type of setup, but what my buddy, none rotary guy. But he has used this type of setup on a Honda with a (In my own words TO BIG) Turbo . He makes the fuel map really rich so that not all the fuel is burt in the power stroke so it is loading up the exhaust with lots of raw fuel. But there isn't enuff O2 to burn this, so the NO2 introduces O2 into this overly rich exhaust system and it explodes outside of the engine in the turbo collector.
He explains its like having twice the exhaust flow from his motor.
I am not saying that this is the best setup, but i have been in his car and seen the System on and System off, and there is a Big change.
He explains its like having twice the exhaust flow from his motor.
I am not saying that this is the best setup, but i have been in his car and seen the System on and System off, and there is a Big change.
If youre flooding the engine wont it run like crap??....is this serious ???...can sombody explain this to me??.....or is this a joke?!
02-13-07, 12:34 PM
#19
makes sense...youre running a really rich ratio under high boost anyway, so he just adds more fuel sooner.
the best way to explain it is that gasoline burns at a ratio of 14.7:1 with air. Burning is the visible result of fuel combining with oxygen. So any time you run rich, it means that you burn up all the oxgen in the air, and still have some fuel left in the exhaust. the opposite is true if you run lean. The reason the extra fuel in the exhaust doesnt burn is that there is no more oxygen for it to react with. Nitrous is just a source of oxygen, thats all it does is provide some more oxygen for the reaction. thats why you have to add more fuel when you run nitrous, to keep the ratio correct. So spraying nitrous into the exhaust will add the oxygen that the left over fuel needs to burn, so it will burn and expand, spinning the turbo faster. I didnt know anyone actually did this, because it would be kind of a tricky thing to do, but it would work...
pat
the best way to explain it is that gasoline burns at a ratio of 14.7:1 with air. Burning is the visible result of fuel combining with oxygen. So any time you run rich, it means that you burn up all the oxgen in the air, and still have some fuel left in the exhaust. the opposite is true if you run lean. The reason the extra fuel in the exhaust doesnt burn is that there is no more oxygen for it to react with. Nitrous is just a source of oxygen, thats all it does is provide some more oxygen for the reaction. thats why you have to add more fuel when you run nitrous, to keep the ratio correct. So spraying nitrous into the exhaust will add the oxygen that the left over fuel needs to burn, so it will burn and expand, spinning the turbo faster. I didnt know anyone actually did this, because it would be kind of a tricky thing to do, but it would work...
pat
02-13-07, 02:12 PM
#21
Rotary Enthusiast
Originally Posted by patman
makes sense...youre running a really rich ratio under high boost anyway, so he just adds more fuel sooner.
the best way to explain it is that gasoline burns at a ratio of 14.7:1 with air. Burning is the visible result of fuel combining with oxygen. So any time you run rich, it means that you burn up all the oxgen in the air, and still have some fuel left in the exhaust. the opposite is true if you run lean. The reason the extra fuel in the exhaust doesnt burn is that there is no more oxygen for it to react with. Nitrous is just a source of oxygen, thats all it does is provide some more oxygen for the reaction. thats why you have to add more fuel when you run nitrous, to keep the ratio correct. So spraying nitrous into the exhaust will add the oxygen that the left over fuel needs to burn, so it will burn and expand, spinning the turbo faster. I didnt know anyone actually did this, because it would be kind of a tricky thing to do, but it would work...
pat
the best way to explain it is that gasoline burns at a ratio of 14.7:1 with air. Burning is the visible result of fuel combining with oxygen. So any time you run rich, it means that you burn up all the oxgen in the air, and still have some fuel left in the exhaust. the opposite is true if you run lean. The reason the extra fuel in the exhaust doesnt burn is that there is no more oxygen for it to react with. Nitrous is just a source of oxygen, thats all it does is provide some more oxygen for the reaction. thats why you have to add more fuel when you run nitrous, to keep the ratio correct. So spraying nitrous into the exhaust will add the oxygen that the left over fuel needs to burn, so it will burn and expand, spinning the turbo faster. I didnt know anyone actually did this, because it would be kind of a tricky thing to do, but it would work...
pat
02-13-07, 03:34 PM
#23
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i agree about the over complication. . .not that it might not work, but that's definitely not what i'd do.
any combustion taking place in the exhaust manifold is effectively backpressure pushing against the rotor. i'm not smart/experienced enough to say, but seems like this type of application would increase damage to the apex seals pretty dramatically depnding on the size/efficiency of the shot.
any combustion taking place in the exhaust manifold is effectively backpressure pushing against the rotor. i'm not smart/experienced enough to say, but seems like this type of application would increase damage to the apex seals pretty dramatically depnding on the size/efficiency of the shot.
02-13-07, 04:08 PM
#24
i dunno about damaging th apex seals, but i would think that it might cause some reversion and hurt power...hard to tell since the backpressure would also be spinning the turbo, causeing more inlet pressure...it gets to be a kinda complex problem...
if you guys didnt notice, i was just explaining how that worked, not saying it was a good idea...look at my post above that where i said most guys just use the nitrous in the normal way, and that spools the turbo...
mirabile have you seen my mom?
if you guys didnt notice, i was just explaining how that worked, not saying it was a good idea...look at my post above that where i said most guys just use the nitrous in the normal way, and that spools the turbo...
mirabile have you seen my mom?