The New 20B
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From: Apex, NC, USA
Savanna Rx-7
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From: yokosuka japan
yeah saw that one on no-pistons i think
Originally Posted by Attila the Fun
kenn
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From: Apex, NC, USA
Originally Posted by kenn_chan
i think its probably the best thing mazda could do to increase sales. it will also help as more R&D will be done, if they actually make a NA 20b renny motor that would be great, and I know that i would end up putting alien on my house for just the engine!
kenn
kenn
A momentary flight of fantasy: An RX-9 supercar featuring the proposed 3-rotor in a lightened, 2-seater, RX-8-based chassis.
We now return you to your regularly-schedule reality.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,390
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From: San Francisco, CA
Originally Posted by Attila the Fun
It's interesting to speculate that you might be able to put a lien on a car, if all that effort produced a production version of the motor.
A momentary flight of fantasy: An RX-9 supercar featuring the proposed 3-rotor with a twin turbo in a lightened, 2-seater, RX-8-based chassis.
We now return you to your regularly-schedule reality.
A momentary flight of fantasy: An RX-9 supercar featuring the proposed 3-rotor with a twin turbo in a lightened, 2-seater, RX-8-based chassis.
We now return you to your regularly-schedule reality.
Even better if it was turbocharged too
Last edited by RX-Heven; Mar 21, 2005 at 09:03 PM.
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From: _
I'll be interested to see how the do the exhaust ports.
The catch with doing the a triple rotor renesis engine is that you've got two different sized exhaust ports per rotor, one each for the primary & secondary exhaust ports. Now on the twin rotor renesis in the RX8 the two secondary exhaust ports are backed up to each other, making three basically equal size exhaust ports.
the exhaust port layout is (P1) (S1,S2) (P2)
But on a triple rotor renesis you are going to end up with four equal sized exhaust ports and one smaller exhaust port. I'm just wondering if this will cause issues with exhaust manifold design or not.
They've got two option for the design:
1) They make the engine with the exhaust ports layed out as so (P1) (S1,S2) (P2){S3} (P3)
2) Or they can lay the exhaust ports out as (P1) (S1,S2) (P2)(P3) {S3}
The fist option would be the closest to what Mazda did in the original 20B, and allows for the reuse of the standard rx8 front side housing. but leaves a smaller secondary exhaust port backed up to a larger primary exhaust port.
The second option would make for a longer Eccentric Shaft and the need for a new front side housing, but would backup two equally sized primary exhaust ports to each other.
I'd be interested to see if the different sized exhaust port would have any effect on the engines operation , and if so how they get around it with their exhaust manifold design. None of this is an issue for the renesis design if you have an even number of rotors in the engine i.e a quad rotor.
the exhaust port layout is (P1) (S1,S2) (P2)
But on a triple rotor renesis you are going to end up with four equal sized exhaust ports and one smaller exhaust port. I'm just wondering if this will cause issues with exhaust manifold design or not.
They've got two option for the design:
1) They make the engine with the exhaust ports layed out as so (P1) (S1,S2) (P2){S3} (P3)
2) Or they can lay the exhaust ports out as (P1) (S1,S2) (P2)(P3) {S3}
The fist option would be the closest to what Mazda did in the original 20B, and allows for the reuse of the standard rx8 front side housing. but leaves a smaller secondary exhaust port backed up to a larger primary exhaust port.
The second option would make for a longer Eccentric Shaft and the need for a new front side housing, but would backup two equally sized primary exhaust ports to each other.
I'd be interested to see if the different sized exhaust port would have any effect on the engines operation , and if so how they get around it with their exhaust manifold design. None of this is an issue for the renesis design if you have an even number of rotors in the engine i.e a quad rotor.
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The new 3 rotor is NOT a Renesis. It is based on the old 13G all peripheral port race engines. There is no all side port 3 rotor. The term Renesis is only being attached to it because that's what the current rotary engine is known as. There may be a couple minor differences internally but for the most part it is not a new engine and it is not a Renesis. Go look at the follow ups to the rotarynews.com article.
Originally Posted by TAZ-NZ
But on a triple rotor renesis you are going to end up with four equal sized exhaust ports and one smaller exhaust port. I'm just wondering if this will cause issues with exhaust manifold design or not.
They've got two option for the design:
1) They make the engine with the exhaust ports layed out as so (P1) (S1,S2) (P2){S3} (P3)
2) Or they can lay the exhaust ports out as (P1) (S1,S2) (P2)(P3) {S3}
The fist option would be the closest to what Mazda did in the original 20B, and allows for the reuse of the standard rx8 front side housing. but leaves a smaller secondary exhaust port backed up to a larger primary exhaust port.
The second option would make for a longer Eccentric Shaft and the need for a new front side housing, but would backup two equally sized primary exhaust ports to each other.
I'd be interested to see if the different sized exhaust port would have any effect on the engines operation , and if so how they get around it with their exhaust manifold design. None of this is an issue for the renesis design if you have an even number of rotors in the engine i.e a quad rotor.
They've got two option for the design:
1) They make the engine with the exhaust ports layed out as so (P1) (S1,S2) (P2){S3} (P3)
2) Or they can lay the exhaust ports out as (P1) (S1,S2) (P2)(P3) {S3}
The fist option would be the closest to what Mazda did in the original 20B, and allows for the reuse of the standard rx8 front side housing. but leaves a smaller secondary exhaust port backed up to a larger primary exhaust port.
The second option would make for a longer Eccentric Shaft and the need for a new front side housing, but would backup two equally sized primary exhaust ports to each other.
I'd be interested to see if the different sized exhaust port would have any effect on the engines operation , and if so how they get around it with their exhaust manifold design. None of this is an issue for the renesis design if you have an even number of rotors in the engine i.e a quad rotor.
Originally Posted by rotarygod
The new 3 rotor is NOT a Renesis. It is based on the old 13G all peripheral port race engines. There is no all side port 3 rotor. The term Renesis is only being attached to it because that's what the current rotary engine is known as. There may be a couple minor differences internally but for the most part it is not a new engine and it is not a Renesis. Go look at the follow ups to the rotarynews.com article.
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
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From: Central Florida
Originally Posted by rotarygod
The new 3 rotor is NOT a Renesis. It is based on the old 13G all peripheral port race engines. There is no all side port 3 rotor. The term Renesis is only being attached to it because that's what the current rotary engine is known as. There may be a couple minor differences internally but for the most part it is not a new engine and it is not a Renesis. Go look at the follow ups to the rotarynews.com article.
For Release: March 18, 2005
SEBRING, Fla. – Mazda North American Operations (MNAO) and MAZDASPEED Motorsports Development today announced that Mazda will return to the top level of professional sports car racing as an engine supplier in the LMP-2 class of the American Le Mans Series (ALMS). The company will provide engineering and technical assistance to BK Motorsports, overseeing the development and deployment of a RENESIS-based three-rotor rotary racing engine. It is hoped that BK Motorsports’ success will lead other teams to choose the RENESIS rotary race engine.
Unlike in the past when Mazda’s greatest racing success – victory at the 1991 running of the famed 24 Hours of Le Mans – was from a full factory-supported program, BK Motorsports is a privately funded and run team with monetary support from Sportsbook.com. Mazda has provided extensive engineering support to the team to ensure the success of the engine. In addition, technical assistance and engine construction and tuning will be undertaken by SpeedSource Race Engineering, which also runs a championship-winning Grand Am Street Touring program with the RENESIS rotary-powered RX-8.
”There’s nothing like the sound of a full-race Mazda rotary engine at 9,000 rpm, and anyone who’s heard one is not likely to forget its distinctive tone,” said Steve Sanders, Manager, MAZDASPEED Motorsports Development for MNAO. “As one of the original funding and marketing partners in the ALMS series, and one of the most successful sportscar engine and chassis manufacturers of all time, it’s an absolute thrill for Mazda to be back in top-flight sportscar racing in North America.”
In order to ensure success, Mazda turned to many of the most well-known and respected names in the rotary performance business for advice, including Jim Mederer (owner of Racing Beat, an accessory and performance shop), Jim Downing (multiple title-winner in Mazda-powered IMSA RS, GTU and Camel GTP-Light cars), Dennis Spencer (who ran a very successful Camel GTP-Light program in the IMSA series), Roger Mandeville (1983 IMSA GTU and 1984 GTO champion, all in RX-7-based cars), and Sylvain Tremblay and David Haskell (of SpeedSource Inc., a successful race engineering and development company). It was only with the assistance of these experts in the “black art” of racing rotary engine preparation that the company decided it was ready to return to the deep end of top level racing.
The engine is based on the RENESIS rotary engine as supplied in Mazda’s flagship sportscar, the RX-8. It is designated 20B, a three-rotor design incorporating electronic fuel injection with a full data-gathering system. And, like its street-going two-rotor sibling in the RX-8, the engine revs to over 9,000rpm – this being one of the hallmarks of the rotary engine. While still undergoing final tuning, Mazda and SpeedSource are targeting output in excess of 400 hp, making it competitive with other engines in the class.
The engine was chosen for its light weight, compact size and ease of packaging. In turn, BK Motorsports has chosen the small, nimble Courage C65 chassis because it is able to accommodate a number of different powerplants, not the least of which is the unique Mazda rotary.
BK Motorsports and the RENESIS rotary engine will make their official race debuts at the Sportsbook.com Grand Prix of Atlanta, at the famed Road Atlanta track, April 15-17, 2005. After that, the team intends to compete for the complete ALMS season.
On any given weekend, there are more Mazdas on the road-race tracks of America than any other brand of vehicle. Mazda’s motorsport involvement even extends to the nation’s premier road-racing circuit, Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca.
SEBRING, Fla. – Mazda North American Operations (MNAO) and MAZDASPEED Motorsports Development today announced that Mazda will return to the top level of professional sports car racing as an engine supplier in the LMP-2 class of the American Le Mans Series (ALMS). The company will provide engineering and technical assistance to BK Motorsports, overseeing the development and deployment of a RENESIS-based three-rotor rotary racing engine. It is hoped that BK Motorsports’ success will lead other teams to choose the RENESIS rotary race engine.
Unlike in the past when Mazda’s greatest racing success – victory at the 1991 running of the famed 24 Hours of Le Mans – was from a full factory-supported program, BK Motorsports is a privately funded and run team with monetary support from Sportsbook.com. Mazda has provided extensive engineering support to the team to ensure the success of the engine. In addition, technical assistance and engine construction and tuning will be undertaken by SpeedSource Race Engineering, which also runs a championship-winning Grand Am Street Touring program with the RENESIS rotary-powered RX-8.
”There’s nothing like the sound of a full-race Mazda rotary engine at 9,000 rpm, and anyone who’s heard one is not likely to forget its distinctive tone,” said Steve Sanders, Manager, MAZDASPEED Motorsports Development for MNAO. “As one of the original funding and marketing partners in the ALMS series, and one of the most successful sportscar engine and chassis manufacturers of all time, it’s an absolute thrill for Mazda to be back in top-flight sportscar racing in North America.”
In order to ensure success, Mazda turned to many of the most well-known and respected names in the rotary performance business for advice, including Jim Mederer (owner of Racing Beat, an accessory and performance shop), Jim Downing (multiple title-winner in Mazda-powered IMSA RS, GTU and Camel GTP-Light cars), Dennis Spencer (who ran a very successful Camel GTP-Light program in the IMSA series), Roger Mandeville (1983 IMSA GTU and 1984 GTO champion, all in RX-7-based cars), and Sylvain Tremblay and David Haskell (of SpeedSource Inc., a successful race engineering and development company). It was only with the assistance of these experts in the “black art” of racing rotary engine preparation that the company decided it was ready to return to the deep end of top level racing.
The engine is based on the RENESIS rotary engine as supplied in Mazda’s flagship sportscar, the RX-8. It is designated 20B, a three-rotor design incorporating electronic fuel injection with a full data-gathering system. And, like its street-going two-rotor sibling in the RX-8, the engine revs to over 9,000rpm – this being one of the hallmarks of the rotary engine. While still undergoing final tuning, Mazda and SpeedSource are targeting output in excess of 400 hp, making it competitive with other engines in the class.
The engine was chosen for its light weight, compact size and ease of packaging. In turn, BK Motorsports has chosen the small, nimble Courage C65 chassis because it is able to accommodate a number of different powerplants, not the least of which is the unique Mazda rotary.
BK Motorsports and the RENESIS rotary engine will make their official race debuts at the Sportsbook.com Grand Prix of Atlanta, at the famed Road Atlanta track, April 15-17, 2005. After that, the team intends to compete for the complete ALMS season.
On any given weekend, there are more Mazdas on the road-race tracks of America than any other brand of vehicle. Mazda’s motorsport involvement even extends to the nation’s premier road-racing circuit, Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca.
The engine is based on the RENESIS rotary engine as supplied in Mazda’s flagship sportscar, the RX-8. It is designated 20B, a three-rotor design incorporating electronic fuel injection with a full data-gathering system. And, like its street-going two-rotor sibling in the RX-8, the engine revs to over 9,000rpm – this being one of the hallmarks of the rotary engine.
This statement right here is enough to convince me that this is a new engine.
While still undergoing final tuning, Mazda and SpeedSource are targeting output in excess of 400 hp.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,390
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From: San Francisco, CA
Originally Posted by Godzilla-T78
Well since you dont pay much attention apparently. From Mazdamotorsports home page:
So, doesnt matter what you read on rotarynews.com this is straight from mazda's motorsports division. Cheers.
So, doesnt matter what you read on rotarynews.com this is straight from mazda's motorsports division. Cheers.
Apparently that articles mention of a 'renesis based 3 rotor' is just PR.
ASK mazda motorsports and they will tell you it is based off the standard 20b.
Although with so much contradicting info out there, I'm going to have to go see the damn car for myself when ALMS comes to Sears Point and see who is right and wrong because I don't know what to believe. I know what I want to believe....
Cheers.
Last edited by RX-Heven; Apr 2, 2005 at 06:29 PM.
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From: Aiken SC USA
When I was placing an order 2 weeks ago with MAZDACOMP, I asked SCOTT what the deal was, since there are NO NEW 20B CRANKS IN INVENTORY, and havent been for over a year! They still dont know. The first batch are being made with used cranks
Originally Posted by Godzilla-T78
Well since you dont pay much attention apparently. From Mazdamotorsports home page:
So, doesnt matter what you read on rotarynews.com this is straight from mazda's motorsports division. Cheers.
So, doesnt matter what you read on rotarynews.com this is straight from mazda's motorsports division. Cheers.
It sucks when someone is an *** to you doesn't it!
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 214
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From: Miami
Originally Posted by rotarygod
"Well since you don't pay much attention apparently", Speedsource themselves, the builders of the engine, have stated that the engine is a 13G (not 20B or Renesis) based all peripheral port race engine. If you've seen the videos you'd know it was a peripheral port just by the loping idle. So it doesn't really matter how you interpreted what you read on Mazda's Motorsports division webpage. Cheers.
It sucks when someone is an *** to you doesn't it!
It sucks when someone is an *** to you doesn't it!
Trust me.
Originally Posted by rotarygod
"Well since you don't pay much attention apparently", Speedsource themselves, the builders of the engine, have stated that the engine is a 13G (not 20B or Renesis) based all peripheral port race engine. If you've seen the videos you'd know it was a peripheral port just by the loping idle. So it doesn't really matter how you interpreted what you read on Mazda's Motorsports division webpage. Cheers.
It sucks when someone is an *** to you doesn't it!
It sucks when someone is an *** to you doesn't it!
I was at the ALMS covering the event for RXtuner.... And seen the car.
