Kurgan

Everything is wired up the way that Hitman told me too, I'm positive...

The night started off ok, I'm not too pissed, we got a LOT done. Got the fuel pump relay hooked up, correctly this time. Also wired the TPS to the specs on that diagram that the Hitman gave me. Troubleshot the starter and found out it was bad, so we through another one in... it was able to easily turn the motor over.

Loaded a base map from Hitman and attempted to start it with that map. Wasn'tgetting ANY signal from the TPS, but more importantly, no spark from the coils.

Mike, do you remember how ou wired your 3 coil packs/ What wires did each of the signal wires o to?

no TPS and no spark make Nidk MA
Could ou send me you you current E5k map and maybe tell mewhat las to

4am = i'm tiredi

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Sorry I have no idea.

To keep from having to start a new thread about Haltech questions, I'm going to ask here. j9fd3s, do you know if the Haltech E6K can use a 4 cylinder tach signal while in 4.0L V6 '20B' mode and still operate the injectors correctly? I'm setting up a tachometer circuit in my project and wanted to use the stock two rotor tach. I hope the Haltech can use this signal.

By the way, my tachometer circuit will allow me to check the operation of each coil/ignitor combo from the driver's seat while cruising. It will allow troubleshooting on the fly; to very quickly determine if coil or ignitor ever fails on me (very helpful on Trailing).

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

kurgan: i'm using fd coil pacs an the fd ignitor (its all three in one box). the ign out is #1rotor, dig out1 is #2, and dig out is #3. the haltech is set to PISTON (i thought it was a rotary too...) 6 cylinder. direct fire. what i had to do was pull the cas out and spin it by hand until it worked right. the other side of the coil gets 12v power. you dont need the tps at all actually, but you should be able to figure out what pins give you a tps signal.

jeff: i think you could. the 2 and 3 rotors injectors are wired together, so they have to fire at the same time no matter what. the only reason you need 6 cylinder mode is for the ignition timing (it doesn't run very well when you try to fire it like a 2 rotor). if you are handling ignition timing then it should be ok. my haltech tach out put seems like its load dependent, although i could have fried the tach trying to recalibrate it.

mike

zyounker

hey j9fd3s,

check out https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=108604


We are at that point now. Any ideas?


We are pretty much at a loss at this point..

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

that is wierd, i posted on the other thread.

mike

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

j9fd3s, thanks for the response. So you're saying the Haltech will be able to use my 4 cylinder style tach signal to squirt both sets of injectors in V6 mode properly? This, I like! I should probably get confirmation from The HITman before getting an E6K though.

Did you try to get a stock two rotor tach to read properly on a 20B? Did you build a timing circuit with a capacitor etc or simply adjust the tach's inards?

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

ive been messing with the adjuster screw, but its not going very well. how do you build such a circuit? that is starting to sound like the way to go. if you look at how the injectors are wired, rotors 2 and 3 are together. so instead of having, a primary and secondary for each rotor, they are shared electrically between 2 and 3. thats why i think it would work, there is no difference between a 2 rotor and a 3 rotor, in the injector circuit. if you are really looking at the haltech see if you can download a manual online.

mike

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

So primary and secondary fire at the same time on rotors 2 and 3? That's weird. Well, I guess it was the only way the E6K would work on a 20B. Makes me curious about the next Haltech that's supposed to come out soon with all its new 20B friendly features.

About the timing circuit, if you were to try to use the signal from the (-) side of one of your coils, it would only fire once per revolution. That's the same as a four stroke two cylinder or a two stroke one cylinder engine. You'd need a motorcycle tach or something, but it would work and be accurate. If the 20B uses the same CAS as the 13B, there ought to be a way to hook it to a tach with the proper amount of pulses per revolution of an FC's ECU. Now I admit I don't know much about the CAS and the tach of an FC, but every person I've ever read about who's done a 20B has said they needed a tach set to 6 cyl mode. I find that interesting since it uses direct fire. Or maybe it was because of the two stroke one cylinder effect? I can't quite remember what the RXX-7's tach workaround required.

The stock tach can be used if a circuit is built that can input one signal and output a slightly different signal. In our case, 1.5 times slower, or 2 times faster. Sorry, but I don't know how to build such a thing.

You also need to make sure that your stock tach is supposed to take a '4 cyl' type signal. I guess I got lucky when my stock tach died which means I don't have to adhere to the '4 cyl' rule because most aftemarket tachs can work in 4-6-8 cyl mode. I'm not sure of they use a timing circuit to allow this adjustability, but I bet they do. It should be simple enough to build.

Kurgan

I wired mine up via info from Hitman. Primary injector 1 and 3 fire at the same time, secondary injectors 1 and 3 fire at the same time. if you have the secondary and primary injectors firing at the same time, you can't do staged injectors, which seems to be the secret for turbo rotaries.

BTW, i got my car started today and it sounds badass

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

kurgan: sweet, that makes 3 running 20b's in north america. what was wrong to keep it from sparking?

jeff: the fc takes its tach signal from the same place a 1st gens does, right off one of the trailing coils. with my setup i chose to use the tach output from the haltech, and you can't set the out put for anything but what the engine is, 6 cyl

mike

zyounker

The coils where hooked up wrong. We talked to so many people and everyone told us that it was right.


Which it wasn't but it is all good now..


-Zach

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

j9fd3s, since one coil does the job of two plugs in a 1st gen, its tach gets two pulses per rev. Are you saying the 2nd gen's tach gets its signal from only one of the Trailing coils? If so, then it will only get one pulse per rev. Going from one pulse to three pulses per rev must really cause the tach needle to read way off. Couldn't you just use the signal from one of your 2nd gen Leading coils? It still only outputs one pulse per rev; just like each one of the stock Trailing coils.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i'm using 3 fd leading coils and the fd ignitor (it like an fc leading but 3 channel), where can i take the out put from?

mike

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

On the FD coils? Hmm... From what I remember, the Leading coil looked like it was incased in epoxy with one input (+ and -) and two high tension outputs. The Trailings were quite similar but you could tell that they had a single high tension output each.

You want to take your tach signal from the (-) low tension side of one of your coils.

Edit: to everyone with a 20B in an FC, I'm not 100% sure how many pulses your cars' tachs need per revolution, but if what j9fd3s says is correct about it getting its signal from only one trailing coil, then hooking it to one Leading FD (or FC) coil hooked in direct fire mode to both plugs on a single rotor ought to work just fine. The important thing is the number of pulses per revolution; that's pretty much all there is to it.

crazydriving.net

Did you get any of it on video Kurgan?

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

so what you are saying is that since the stock tach gets its signal from one rotor, i can get a tach signal from one rotor on mine, because the rotor spins the same there are just more of them?
i dont mean to sound dumb, but i'm having a hard time getting my mind around that one.

mike

Kurgan

Yep, got the whole thing on tape. But I have one of those new video cameras that records on a DVD and you have to "close the session" to watch it... I still have about 15 minutes left on the DVD, so as soon as its filled up, I'll be able to post some video clips.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Again, I'm not 100% sure how the FC's tach works, but what you're thinking is correct. It all depends on whether or not the stock tach actually uses a single pulse per revolution; such as if it were connected to only one Trailing coil.

Uh oh, looking at this FC ignition schematic, it shows that maybe the tach gets its signal from both coils. Let's see if I can upload a picture (never done this before)...

Kurgan

the stock tach gets its signal from the trailing coil... yellow wire I believe.

I plan on messing with the tach function of the Aux Out option on the Haltech to get my tach running correctly, we'll see how that goes.

HWO

if you go to HITman's page he explains how to re calibrate the tacho in a series 2 1st gen to be able to run the 20B's tacho correctly, i'd imagine the same could be done to the FC.

Kurgan

I think they are slightly different, but thanks for the info.

Zach pointed me to this site. Its that crappy place that turns Rx7s into V8 cars, but they show you how to recalibrate any year's tachometer for a V6 (which is what the Haltech runs the 20B as)

http://members.tripod.com/~grannys/rx7tachrecal.html

RETed

Yes, there's an adjustment screw on the FC instrument cluster which will allow it to compensate for the 20B tach out straight from the Haltech.&nbsp Paul Ko of K2RD has a special Basic STAMP circuit that he calibrates with - maybe he should charge a slight fee for 20B FC instrument cluster tach calibration?


-Ted

Kurgan

I'd pay for K2RD parts... the motor mounts were a life saver