Bama420

iTrader: (1)

I currently drive a 90 GTU with the 13b. Since I learned of it, I have wanted to do the 20bt swap in my car. I was wondering if you all could help me out on some things. What is a close cost estimate on ALL the parts that I would need? I was thinking about using a T66 turbo unless I bought a block and kit from another project that had to be sold. Knowing the quote on that bill will tell me how much longer Iu need to save up my cash, after all, I'm only 19. I have the mechanical skills and help that I would need as I work for an rx7 and miata SCCA shop. Actually, what would help me the most would be for the 20b FC owners out there to show me some pictures of their finished or uncompleted swaps and give me an estimation of what they paid for the swap. Not including shell. Hopefully, not long from now I will be cruising the streets in my 1990 GTU-X.

felix_is_alive

i think it was turboIII selling his setup , complete , it was also made to fit in an FC so it should be perfect you might want to give him a buzz , i am not shure if matt was selling his too

RETed

This information is all in here - do a search.

I don't recommend doing this at your age.


-Ted

Atkins Mama

its an expensive job, visit pettit racing as they make some of the conversion kits for this.......

onefastrx7turbo

iTrader: (5)

Save your money and buy a house. Then do the car stuff later. We are talking as much as $30K here!!!

Atkins Mama

gotta a good point, the house will gain value and you will never get it out of the car!

Turbo 3

iTrader: (3)

Yes I'm selling my setup. If you can't afford to buy mine, you can't afford to do the swap as it will be at least that just for a base setup, let alone all the work that I did. A good estimate is $10K for a bare minimum using a used motor. Figure $20-30K to do things nicely. Figure $40K and more to get stupid and really buy expensive parts and not have anything stock left except the shell

patman

iTrader: (3)

I dunno why we get these threads all the time. Do a search. There was a pretty good one I was going to reference you to, but someone must have deleted it. Perhaps if they would save them, it would be easier for you to find the info.

Bottom line:
20b swap can range from 6k-50k, depending what gen car its going in and how much of the work you do yourself. If its going in a TII, it should be closer to the bottom of that range, FDs usually cost a lot more due to the mounting problems. if you search my UN in this section, you should find my 'its alive' thread which has pics near the end of it.

Bama420

iTrader: (1)

Shortly after I posted this I actually looked harder and got info from someone. I realize that by doing everything myself it should come out to be about 20k. The reason I can't just spring up and buy someone else's is because of a couple of reasons. First of, I'm going to have to pace myself. I'll be buying 13b and 20bt compatible items first so that I'm not wasting money building up my 13b and when I'm ready for the final swap, most of the things I will need are already on my car. And second, I like being able to say, "Look what I built," not, "Look what I bought." I'm not looking to get this done in 6 months, I plan on taking my time and finishing in upwards of a year or two. Seeing as there is "know-how" in many lines of sight for me, including this forum, that's not a problem. I get many large discounts on rx7 parts because of where I work. In guesstimation, the projects that cost the average person 30k, i can get for around 23k. That's beside the point. Don't neccessarily think that I can't do it because of my age. And there's no reason for anyone on this page to be ******** because I asked a question. I know there is a search page, maybe I want YOUR opinions. I'm a social person and I like reaction. Tootling around and reading a bunch of words typed 3 years ago doesn't spark my mind very much.

Other than that, thanks for the advice.

felix_is_alive

Dude first of all ...you need to chill , nobody is being an ******* , just you do have to understand that a lot of people started doing the conversion and then bailed out for different reasons (financial/difficulty/time/frustration) , its no walk in the park so you better be damn shure of what you want and have a lot of determination , nobody wants to see another conversion stuck ,and people beeing dragged in debt for nothing
It is no joke to do this and its a lot of money so just be shure of what you want before doing anything
Another thing , most of the stuff you need for the 20B you wont be able to carry over from the 13B example:turbo for 20B needs to be bigger , wastegate probably too , manifolds of course will not fit , ECU also is a no go , you might be able to use the 13B clutch up to a certain power level , so in a sence there isnt a lot left
in a nutshell nobody is saying you cant do it , but you better be shure thats what you want because its no joke , any advise you need , i am pretty shure nobody will mind giving you some !

RETed

We'll give you 2 years, and this thread should still be here, barring the servers barfing in the meanwhile.

Good luck.


-Ted

Turbo 3

iTrader: (3)

Let's say you did buy my setup. It's still not "look what I bought" vs. "look what I built" because it still won't be a simple bolt-in arrangement. You will still have plenty of time, money, and resources sunk into it making it your "own".

And no we're not being a-holes. I spent about 5 years doing my conversion and it wasn't due to lack of money, time, or resources, it just takes a long time to do this type of a project the first time around. Don't be cocky, but DO listen to those of us that have went through this process. We are trying to help, but people don't take the time to listen. You all think "those guys don't know what they're doing, I can do it for cheaper, faster, etc". And that's what I thought back so many years ago, and so did many others.

We are not disputing the age factor here, but you haven't even touched on college or the means to be able to do something of this magnitude financially. It's a car...that's it. You have no concept of what it takes to have and maintain a house, stable career, etc at your age. Worry about that stuff, not a stupid car. That will come with time and is much less important.

Anybody else agree?

felix_is_alive

Yes , no matter how much you love your`e car the fact is that its just a car , i just went through building my house and got married , my RX-7 sat in the garage for about 2/3 years without me touching it (and i do all my own stuff, builing,porting fitting) when all was said and done i started to work on my car to get it going back on the road
Again not saying you cant do it , but its hard and it WILL get frustrating at some point becaust it will seem that the project will never end , think about it ....before you skydive , make shure you got a parachute on !

Bama420

iTrader: (1)

I apologize for the name calling, it's not easy to read tone of voice in text. I have read and I have been advised and I have pondered and I have second guessed and everytime I see nothing holding me back. I have my plans and finances arranged for school. I have my financial goals lined up for owning my own home. I have a long time before owning a home is in my line of sight simply because I have no need for a house until I start my family. As for school, I will be taking my 2 year course for the next 4 years so that I can work and wok and work. In theory, in about 10 years down the road, I will own my own custom shop. So yes, it's just a stupid car, but my life did, does, and always will revolve around stupid cars. I want to do this swap for the pride, the speed, and the promotion of my abilities. I have my plans planned out for my life. That is something that I no longer need much help with, although I thank you all for your advice.

As far as carry-overs from 13b to 20bt, I wasn't really referring to stock components. I plan on buying a Haltech system (the E11v2 if I remember correctly) which will work on both the 13b AND the 20b. As far as custom work (porting, fabrication, assistance, etc) I work at ISC Racing Services which is a highly esteemed (can't spell) business for those that are into SCCA racing (non professional, mainly regional). My suspension upgrades should be done by the time I'm ready for the swap along with wheel and tire replacements.

As far as the motor itself goes, I plan on having my exhaust (manifold back) ready for the swap, the Haltech installed and ready for tuning, and my wiring harness completely renavigated for cleanlyness and functinality. I will hopefully be buying a stock (running or not running) complete 20btt engine. I will obviously be rebuilding and giving it a very large streetport before it ever sees my shell. While my shell is empty and completely stripped, it will be going to a very good cleaning and painting.

The way I have it planned, it SHOULD be as simple as drop it in, hook it up, tune it on our dyno, break it in a bit, and test it on a '06 procharged Z06 Corvette. Now, I realize that there will be obsticles that keep this from being as easy as said. That's where that pride thing comes in. The more problems and the more people that say it can't be done, the faster I get it done. I am a very bullheaded person when it comes to doing things that I want to do. I'm not spoiled or anything, hell, I lived in my car for about 5 months. I recently got out of some very bad "habits" so I would consider myself a head strong person.

I want to thank you all for your concern and warnful advice. That has let me know that some people in the world actually give a sh.......crap. I hope you all hold true in that all my questions shall be answered. And don't be shy, share the rest of your opinions, I promise there will be no more insults.

calculon

iTrader: (29)

good luck with all that

Turbo 3

iTrader: (3)

Ok then, it sounds like you have a reasonable plan in place.

My advice then, is to build the entire setup (or as much as is possible), while separate from the car and get it running on an engine dyno if you have the resources available. Once the debugging is done from that end, then tackle the install and the 2ndary debugging that will need to be dealt with.

In this manner, you will still have a viable car to drive around while building the separate system. After going through initial tuning/debugging on an engine dyno, again, you will still have the car available to drive.

When that is done, buy the rest of the parts (gauges, etc) that you need for the interior (or you could install whenever), and complete the install. This approach will probably give you the least amount of transition issues and if there are any issues that come along the way (finances, health, other priorities), you can easily set aside one project for the "fire fighting" and when resolved, resume work on said project.

Sound fair...?

felix_is_alive

^^...damn ....why didn`t i think of that ?!.......good plan

patman

iTrader: (3)

either that or, collect all the parts, then buy a beater car to drive while you do the install. I bought a miata for that very purpose, and i ended up keeping it i liked it so much.

onefastrx7turbo

iTrader: (5)

Bro, I'm in your position right now. Im in the middle of the swap but due to family and work, I hardly have any time to work on it. I'm not gonna sit here and try and discourage you. I will tell you this: If you are renting right now, don't bother doing this swap. I know it's not what you want to hear but thats the facts. Trust me. Save 23K and put that towards a house. I can't stress that enough. If you do own your home, then consider these points. My exhaust manifold, and turbo cost me almost 5G's. I got a custom manifold with 3mm thick wall tubing and a fresh greedy T88H-34D. Ive got an OS giken tripple plate clutch that ran me almost 700 bones (I used to live in Japan so these prices are on the extreme LOW side). 600 dollar GTR HK$ 4 core intercooler. another $300 for piping and I have to fab it myself. $2000 MoTeC M8 ECU. about $1200 in fuel system to include 6 fuel injectors, fuel pumps, fuel rails, line, and AN fittings. $500 HK$ GT spec 60 mil wastegate, $250 for HK$ type R blowoff, about $300 for a huge radiator, and another $150 for the fan. I had to relocate the battery to the rear becuase of the intercooler piping, and I don't remember the cost on that. I spent another $190 on -10 oil line, clamps and fittings. NEW rotor housings X3 = $1800. NEW E shaft (NLA from Mazda) $500 (you may not need this). NEW rotors X3 = $1500. Rebuild kit plus gaskets and misc parts $1500. Custom motor mounts $200. Now you have the engine in the car. Who will tune it? That cost could vary GREATLY. If you add all those up, you get roughly $15,000 with many of those numbers being LOW because I had access to cheap parts while I was in Japan. These numbers a just off the top of my head. They dont include my hundreds of man hours in fabricating, cleaning, painting, dissasembling, etc. They also dont include wheels, tires, suspension, etc. You have to do something about the front sway bar because the oil pan hits it. You may not have to replace rotor housings, your ecu may cost less, etc etc. There are many variations depending on your target horsepower level. But, if you dont want anything more than 450-500 why even go 20B because 13B's can certainly achieve those numbers quite easily. In essence, I just ask you to think about this with great care before you go wasting money and digging yourself deeper into debt.

felix_is_alive

Maybe youre turbo was too greedy !!.....just joking dude
But seriosly , its something to think about ....but if the man wants to do it .....me at his age ....same problem , the more they said i couldn`t do it the more i would push to show them they were wrong .....now i am older .......i would still do it though ..but different ,
I guess we all thought like that , now we know .....we`ll see how it goes !!

patman

iTrader: (3)

whats this 'at his age' crap. he's only 2 years younger than me, and i started my 20b project a year ago, so he's really only one year behind. mine worked out fine, i'm sure his will too.

and if were gonna make lists, heres mine:
20B A396 running block+ spare tranny=3400
LTX12s=1300
wideband=200
60mm wastegate=60 bucks, ebay
MIG welder + bottle of 75/25 = 300
Stainless mandrel bends, 316 wire, CNC'd flanges=140
upgraded pressure plate=200
twin walbros=160
various -AN stuff=200
piece of 3" stainless for downpipe, custom bent=100
set of 3 1680 injectors (refurbs)=120
mounts=100

all that adds up to around $6300

I already had from the 13B:
Af61R=800
AFCO radiator=220
ACT flywheel=150
TXS type H BOV=50 bucks from a buddy, you could go ebay for 25
ebay intercooler=120
aluminum piping + silicone couplers = 150

all that is around 1300

grand total, $7500 for a running 20B FC. And it runs very well.
This is all not to mention the fact that I made about a G of that back selling parts from the 13B like ECU, HKS manifold and etc. I kept the block, it is destined for my miata one of these days.

f i were to do this again, I'd shop around more for some of the smaller parts and especially the ECU, and try to save enough money to go with a GT42R for the same total price.


EDIT: sure i know what everyone says "not everyone can weld their own stuff and everything" but thats a load of ****. A dog can MIG weld if it had hands. I guarantee I could teach anyone who can change theri oil to MIG weld in under an hour. Buy a welder and some scrap steel and read up on the wirespeeds and gasses used and stuff, and weld the **** out of a piece of scrap. Long before you burn through a spool of wire you'll be a good enough welder to weld anything made of steel.

felix_is_alive

Now now patman .....not saying he can`t do it....just making shure he`s not going to choke remember it takes determination , you know that , and even so there are some frustrating **** you have to tend with with these conversion`s ....... i had to get screwed twice over before i could finish mine , in the end i had spit more then 30 grand in the car , sucks i know , probably would have been less if i didn`t get screwed not once but twice , but anyway thats my story
If you want to do it , you better be able to do ALL your`e **** your`e self otherwise be prepared to spit money , and risk beeing screwed over , for me ....i dont trust anyone and i do all my **** myself , to me its the only way

RETed

The guy is trying to throw turbo FC fuel injectors into his non-turbo FC and expect to make more power.
He claims the exhaust "smells lean", so he "needs" more fuel.
https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/t2-injectors-n-626052/

I think we can officially close this thread as a troll?


-Ted

Turbo 3

iTrader: (3)

Nice...

felix_is_alive

whoomp there it is!....