Ok, first off ill just be honest and say that i know nothing of tuning aftermarket ECU's... so this is new teretory for me, so please excuse my ignorance.

anyway, ive somewhat given up on trying to use the stock ECU for my 20b FD. there just seems to be too many problems with using it and little if any gains. also ive been staring at 2 large boxes full of the stock wiring harness and i dont think i have the gusto to begin tracing every one to see what it does and where it goes. so on to the bigger and better stuff right?

ok here is what ive been considering-> the haltech e11, the tec3, and the microtech. there are a few things which i would like to have the option of using (such as possibly controling the stock turbos in sequential for awhile... just so i can play around, having the option of a leading/trailing split, being able to use all of my accesories... ie AC etc., being able to control the different speeds of the FD's cooling fans and so on). i understand that ease of use decreases with complexity of the system so i may need (or will need) to have someone tune this thing for me (so the location of a tuner which is capable of working with a 20b on said ECU is also a factor).

well hopefully i gave enough info for people to recomend a computer (or tell me the pros and cons of the different ones). this car will be 1/2 track car, 1/2 street car... and im shooting for a modest 350HP to start, with the option of taking it to past 500HP if i feel the urge (with upgraded turbos, rebuilt/ported motor, etc).

Oh yeah, one more thing... which ecu's come with base maps that i can start the car on? thanks, and sorry for my lack of knowledge (although i guess thats why im here )

-heath

 

Heath,

First off, I'm REALLY glad that you decided not to try to use the stock Cosmo ECU, that would have probably been a nightmare just to get going.

I'm actually using the AEM EMS for my setup, though I was leaning towards the Haltech E11k very strongly earlier. I made my final decision based on cost (I picked up a slightly used AEM EMS for $1,000) and programability (The AEM EMS has more user programable inputs and outputs, though the Haltech setup is still extremely flexible).

Though I haven't finished my swap yet, I'm shooting to have it done in about two weeks, I do have my basemap completely setup. Its essentially the same basemap that AEM provides for the FD, but I've gone in and added two ignition outputs, two injector outputs and changed the timing for the CAS, fuel and ignition maps to match the phasing of the engine. Its pretty much the same process that you'd go though with any other ECU.

The biggest hurdle to overcome with the AEM EMS is probably the wiring. I am using the stock FD harness but I've gone in and re-wired a good bit of it to add the extra fuel and ignition outputs, boost controller output, and a few extra sensors. All those extra inputs and outputs are running off of wires that were used either for solenoids in the rats nest and emissions equipment that I no longer have or other misc wires that I have no more use for. One of the nice things about the AEM setup is that you can go in and change whatever input or output to like to whatever you need it to be.

Another issue is the 6th ignition channel. The AEM EMS for the FD is setup with 4 ignition channels (for the 4 spark plugs on the 13b). However, you there's already an extra 5th output setup which you just have to go in and enable on the ignition settings menu, and for the 6th channel you can reconfigure an extra fuel injector driver to be an ignition driver. It sounds a little complicated but its in the user manual and its pretty straight forward once you play around with the menus for a while.

My biggest suggestion would be to download the software for the AEM EMS (which is avaiable on their forum at www.aempower.com) and the software for the Haltech E11k and make yourself framiler with both. A lot of the decision really lies in what suits you needs the best. I had used the AEM EMS in the past and I'm a big fan of it, but there are certainly other good setups out there.

 

Hold off on Haltech E11 untill Haltech AUS fixes a nasty bug in the formware.


-Ted

 

Ted: What bug are you referring to? I was under the impression that the E11 V2 was more than capable of running a 20B.

As for the Microtec I personally do not like the "send it to us to configure" design. It means that if you get it set up for a rotary and then later want to use it on a V8 you have to send it back Microtec (in Australia) so that it can be reconfigured. As far as I know this is the only system out there that requires the user to send their unit back if they want to change the configuration.

 

Not to throw another in the mix... But..
You may want to talk to Chris Greene at wolfusa@surewest.net
For a Wolf 3D+.. Unless I am lost he has more than one 20B powered RX out there with maps etc. AND he is in Cali.
Work Phone: 916 648 8000
Cell: 916 289 0488

It is another option to consider.. I am not gonna go into the big argument over which EMS is best.... cause I think when you get to the latest product for most of the top 4 or so.. they are very similar.. just small specifics that people argue over.

If you contact him.. he may very well be able to hook you up with a Wolf Install and tuning etc.. and you just drive it.

As mentioned above.. get an EMS you have a installer/Tuner for.. and go from there. That way you dont end up at a dead end.. and have no-one to turn to...... THat is where you appear to be with the factory EMS..

 

i am using the microtech ,and while it doesnt have as many outputs as the motec or haltech (i think) , it works great , its pretty easy to adjust (if you have the laptop software) the handset is horrible, pretty straight-forward , and its true if i want to use it later on a ,lets say supra, i would have to send it to aus , but why would i do that ?? i bought it for a 20b....antways it runs great and i dont even know its there , and you dont have to keep adjusting it either , just set it and forget it kinda thing

 

can i run split spark timing on the microtech? can i set it up for sequential turbos? run all my accesories? and how do i control the 4 stage fans from the FD?

 

When the ECU gets hot, it tends to shut down the fuel injection and ignition channels when you adjust ANY map.

I've blown one motor due to this bug.

Haltech AUS is promising a fix for this very soon.
(Not soon enough!!!)



-Ted

 

Haltech E11

 

I spoke to Matt "The Hitman" in Australia on the phone last night and he said that he has never had an occurance of the "bug" that Ted mentions. The 3 rotor in his Ist gen is running an E11 and he has done many E11 installs in other cars. Maybe you just got a bad unit? Where was the brain mounted? Could this have lead to the failure you mention? Are you certain the E11 firmware was at fault?

 

Oh, it's a well known problem on the Haltech Support list.
Hitman may not have experienced it personally, but he should know of it.

E11V1 located in the passenger footwell of an FC3S.
We even tried an added "vent" of fresh air to keep it cool, but that didn't really help.

Other E11 owners have experienced that same thing on the Haltech Support list.


-Ted

 

my e11 would randomly shut off the output side when it got hot. leaving me stuck several times. mounting of the ecu makes little difference, it will still do it if the outside temp is around 80. i took the cover off and there are 3 chips that get hot to the touch, case is sealed and NOT used as a heat sink.

kinda sad, but the e11 was the only problem ive had with the car in the last year, so it and the 20b are out, and a 13b is back in there

 

Wow, that kinda sucks. I didn't mean for you to follow my example and swap a 13B back into your car. I haven't even swapped mine yet.

IS it possible to mount a peltier cooler to the CPU(s)? I mean, the cover is off anyway, right?

 

I haven't had any problems with my e11v2. I have it placed in the same place i had my e6k. take a look at the pic.

http://www.can-saf.com/modules.php?s...view_photo.php

 

ok i need a little more info on what i can/cant do with each computer (split timing, controling the FD fan's 4 settings, all my accesories, possible sequential???). which ones can i get 20b base maps for to start it, how does the resolution of the various computers compare for fine tuning ... etc etc.

 

You're welcome to my 20B basemap for the AEM EMS should you go that way, or if you want to just check it out in software

 

I know of a Wold 3D that's for sale. It was partially installed in a 7 and all the wires are labled. They're like $1000 new, so the guy is asking for offers.

 

thanks john, i may take you up on that. is the software free to download, or could i convince you AIM it to me?

ahh too many choices now... microtech, haltech, wolf, AEM, tec3.... i need some help in narrowing down the ECU's by what id like to/need to do with them.

 

I took a look at the Wolf 3D yesterday. It was just sitting in the car not even hooked up yet. It looked like all the wires still had labels on them. There was also a folder with disks and an instruction booklet. It looks like it's all there. I can PM you the guy's phone number if you're interested.

 

The AEM software is avaliable for download off the AEM forum at http://forum.aempower.com/bbs/index.php in the AEM software download section.

I can email my basemap to you or send it to you through AIM, just IM / Email me and I'll give you my screen name

 

thanks jeff... but before i throw down cash i want to see if there is a different ECU would be better suited for my application. id rather spend more money and get something that can do what i need it to (not to say that the wolf wouldnt)

... basically i just wanted to start a thread where we could discuss the pros/cons/and features of each particular ECU, and hopefully based on that i could make an educated decision. the reason i was so strongly considering a stab at using the stock ECU is because the aftermarket computers are unfamiliar territory to me... basically i wanted to avoid (for awhile at least) opening this can of worms... although it seems that it is inevetable.

 

john, thanks a ton for the help! i just moved and im waiting for them to activate my DSL..... when its working (finally) ill download that software and send you a PM or something. thanks again, ill owe you one! -heath

 

Oh, ok. I don't know anything about what makes the Wolf 3D different from any other ECU, other than maybe the Haltech E11's ability to run the OMP.

 

I'm sure that this is the point where you expect a nice rundown of all the features of each EMS, and how they rate for a "20B conversion" (as if this is some type of standard procedure rather than a totally obscure custom procedure). You want a nice list of features like you see in Consumer Reports where anybody with a 4th grade reading education can see nice bar graphs, little colored circles, and tangible ratings in order to make the "perfect" decision on an EMS.

Well, it doesn't work that way. Here are the problems with that wishful utopian ideal:

1) If you can't understand the published EMS literature, and you don't have the background or drive to ask proper questions of the sales representatives, nor the knowledge to even know what you want or need for your particular 20B conversion, then there is no way you can possibly make this choice based on features.
2) Although every EMS does basically the same thing, there are so many small differences that it would take an overwhelming research paper to list and compare them. Additionally, this technology changes rapidly, so any published research paper would be outdated in less than a year.
3) Every person and every application is different. One feature that is good for one particular person or application may not be good for another. Therefore, any comparison would be so subjective that even an internet discussion would lead nowhere.

The best way to choose an EMS is to either get help from your local rotary tuning shop, or to simply tell them what you want and have them install and tune the EMS accordingly.

 

I've tried to keep up with the changing tech, but it's still sorely outdated...

http://fc3spro.com/TECH/SWAP/COSMO/20b.html

Sorry, no AEM.

Info has been taken from manufacturer sites.
Very little 3 rotor info is usually available there.


-Ted