ok guys i've been talking to a very well known rotary racer,and a 20b master for that matter about a 3rd gen conversion he did for the owner of one of the companies that sponser him.... according to him he used the stock 3rd gen subframe with a custom oil pan and oil pickup tube for fit the motor on top of the steering rack....he then took a few inches off the lower intake manifold to clear the hood line, but he had to relocate the stock injector bungs and make a new fuel rail to clear the upper intake manifold....the trans tunnel had to be widen a little with a special tool u rent from a tool house to fit the new bellhousing for the t-56 tranny, but stock 3rd gen tranny MIGHT fit under the stock tunnel ...this fella has alot of time into this car to get the balance and cornering stability just right, remember its for one of his major sponsers to prowl the streets with so u know a car of this caliber would not be cheap..remember no bump steer issues,no custom sub frame,no 3rd gen rear housing trick

this is what $5000 could get u-
new custom oil pan
new custom oil pickup tube
professionally modify lower intake manifold (customer provide part)
new fuel rails
new stronger motor mount brackets
2 microtech Lt-12 maps,one for stock motor and one for street port/gt42 motor

im also tring to see if he can do a stainless steel turbo manifold for a few dollars more....so the question is would u pay $5000 for a conversion kit professionally engineered, built and tested by the man him self Mr Abel Ibarra for your street car?? i think $5000 sounds fair and all of the stuff is bolt in, the only hard part might be to modify the trans tunnel to fit the big SFI bellhousing for the T-5 tranny... you might be able to use the t2 style bellhousing without modifying the tunnel,im not sure..
at this time abel has no plans of making the kit available, untill he see's about 5-10 serious guys...lets hear ur feed back guys

*im not advertising for flaco racing,im informing the rotary community about the conversation i had with Abel a while back*

 

Okay, so if he's using the stock subframe how is he not using the 3rd gen rear housing? The 20b motor mount brackets are on the side of the motor, the 13b mount bracket is on the bottom, the only way I can see doing it is the new brackets bolt to the stock 20b mount location and then mounts to the stock 13b subframe. Also for $1700 - $1900 you can have a subframe and drop the motor in, and have clearance for the hood. No need for a custom oil pan, no need for a new oil pick up, no need to cut the manifold for hood clearance. I kinda like the idea of building the brackets and you could probably get the UIM to clear by using soild motor mount bushings and making the shorter.

 

But... you totally skipped all the bump steer issues you get with the subframe trick.
The bump steer issues with the subframes are HUGE. They MUST be addressed or you will have some very large handling issues when pushed. Many may not see it.. nor recognize it.. but it is large.... even with some of the corrections done by some of the VERY reputable shops.. it is still a LARGE problem... Better than before.. but still not right.

Not to say this is the best method..... I myself would LOVE to see a subframe with CORRECT geometry.. or provisions for it to be correct.. But it at the least doesnt bring the bump-steer issue to a project with a world of little things to work out already.

 

My rotary engine builder who has a 20B in his FD basically said under no circumstances should the stock rack be moved...there are tricks, relatively small steps, to make everything clear the rack and leave it where it belongs. Custom motor mounts are easy. I use them on my Cosmo 13B and they are not all that complicated. There are pics of them under my CLR engine in and running post in the rotary performance section.

 

The bumpsteer correction I use, although not stock is only very, very close to stock

 

new custom oil pan & tube = ~$500
lower intake modificationi =couple hrs of labor
new fuel rails =blanks are <$30 each+brackets and some labor
new stronger motor mount brackets =1-2 hrs of labor??
2 microtech Lt-12 maps = ~$500

Apparently not much!

 

hey buddy could u build me a custom aluminum oil pan from scratch with a 1/2" think pan flange with "moroso like quality" for $500???? if so i'll take one right now....also could u professionally tune my LT-12 20b powered 1st gen for $500???remember flaco is one of the best if not THE BEST rotary tuner in the world, do u think u or ur shop could match his level of performance and skill?....
dude just about anyone on this forum could slap a 20b into just about any car in the world but that doesn't mean to say it will be done correct or it will perform stout on the track....$5000 for a conversion kit from the baddest rotary shop in the world is pretty cheap, and u KNOW FOR SURE u have a well engineered and well constructed kit that WILL PERFORM if u match it with the right combination of parts .....lets see what Gforce Mike do to the streets of PA when his flaco built 3rd gen is done....

 

The Best is a big Title.......... lets just say ONE of the best!

 

Compared to the going rate for 3 rotor conversions I don't think it's a bad deal at all.

However, based on my experience in paying for fabrication work (as opposed to buying parts fabricated by shops) and being friends with lots of engineers (CAD guys) and machinists, I think 5,000 is a lot of money for the work outlined above.

Most of what you're getting is LABOR. Assume materials are $500 -which I think is generous, that leaves $4,500. If he's charging $75.00 an hour, which is again generous, that should buy over 60 hours of labor -or a week and a half of work on nothing but this project. Given his level of expertise, as you noted, I would be surprised if it took him that long. Do you see where I'm coming from?

Since you took the time to respond to my post could you also please respond to the PM I spent prior to the post ?