20b Mod
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Rotary Enthusiast
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From: UK
20b Mod
How hard is it to fit a 20b engine to say a FC T2?
Can i use my existing Engine with a 20b Shaft and another Center plate?
And is there a Guide or a Web page that shows what i need to do it? or is it a case of geting a Cosmo and transfering as much over as possable then Mod the living daylights out of it?
Can i use my existing Engine with a 20b Shaft and another Center plate?
And is there a Guide or a Web page that shows what i need to do it? or is it a case of geting a Cosmo and transfering as much over as possable then Mod the living daylights out of it?
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
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From: Stinson Beach, Ca
try using the search button.
evil aviator and cymfc3s (actually I think its his friends) along with some others are in the process of doing there own 20B FC swaps.
Try the 2nd gen forum, but who knows.
i can say it'll probably cost $10k to shove it in and get it running, not including car.
Custom motor mounts, stand alone ECU (the stock uses a auto tranny), lot of more just little parts. And thats with stock twins. And also if you do all the work yourself. Definately not an easy task or one for the faint of heart or light of wallet. Good luck
evil aviator and cymfc3s (actually I think its his friends) along with some others are in the process of doing there own 20B FC swaps.
Try the 2nd gen forum, but who knows.
i can say it'll probably cost $10k to shove it in and get it running, not including car.
Custom motor mounts, stand alone ECU (the stock uses a auto tranny), lot of more just little parts. And thats with stock twins. And also if you do all the work yourself. Definately not an easy task or one for the faint of heart or light of wallet. Good luck
Old [Sch|F]ool
Joined: May 2001
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From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Rotorhead
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,136
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From: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
The 20B FC swap is rather difficult. I only know of 5 running examples in the USA. Searching the 2Gen forum will give you more info, and here is a link to a web page which gives a basic breakdown of the issues involved:
http://www.se-rx7.com/20b/
Building your own 3-rotor is a task of astronomical undertaking. Here is a recent link on the subject.
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=51128
BTW, I wouldn't know cymfc3s if I passed him on the street, although I consider the entire rotary engine community as my friends.
http://www.se-rx7.com/20b/
Building your own 3-rotor is a task of astronomical undertaking. Here is a recent link on the subject.
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=51128
BTW, I wouldn't know cymfc3s if I passed him on the street, although I consider the entire rotary engine community as my friends.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 31,833
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From: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
five? i only count 3.
1. george samuels car
2. chito's car
3. paul ko's car
there are about 5-7 more in the works but they dont run yet, right?
mike
20b-fc, NOT running yet
1. george samuels car
2. chito's car
3. paul ko's car
there are about 5-7 more in the works but they dont run yet, right?
mike
20b-fc, NOT running yet
Old [Sch|F]ool
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 12,856
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From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
I'd like to make a 23A out of a pair of 12As, similar to the 4 rotor 13B detailed at grannysspeedshop.com (yes the V8 conversion shop) but with a simpler engine joining with individual oiling systems (instead of his bastard method of merely spinning one oil pump twice as fast) and doing the water pump setup COMPLETELY differently. Because I'd be using the oil pump on the rear engine, and due to my engine joining idea, the engine will have four counterweights, so it won't have the extremely low rotational inertia of the Granny's engine. (his engine didn't even have a flywheel that was connected to the 'shaft 
) But I could, and would, have the rear engine offset 90 degrees, if only for a different sounding exhaust note. There could be several different ways of doing the ignition system, none of them particularly pleasant. I do have some ideas kicking around though.
The hard part (ha!) will be finding something with enough room under the hood to house such a beast. No go in an RX-7 without serious changes, and RX-7s have too much front weight for my tastes anyway.
But this quote from George Samuels's page keeps my mind at work on this back-burner idea...
) But I could, and would, have the rear engine offset 90 degrees, if only for a different sounding exhaust note. There could be several different ways of doing the ignition system, none of them particularly pleasant. I do have some ideas kicking around though.The hard part (ha!) will be finding something with enough room under the hood to house such a beast. No go in an RX-7 without serious changes, and RX-7s have too much front weight for my tastes anyway.
But this quote from George Samuels's page keeps my mind at work on this back-burner idea...
Modified 2-rotors can be busy little bees. After a certain point, the quest for power makes them peaky in N/A form, or totally dependent on the complex workings of a turbo or two. It is as though the car responds not to the engine, but to the forced induction devices; the engine relegated to becoming a simple appliance for the turbos to use in the quest for power. This is ingenious, effective, and highly sophisticated to be sure, but a little dog on steroids will always maintain the character of a little dog. Hit the gas and lots of things happen.
George's car is not like that. It reminds me of an Irish Wolfhound with which I had a passing acquaintance. The dog was, as the owner, told me, a "leaner." It would stand next you you and lean against your hip. You quickly learned to shift your weight to compensate. The dog seemed like it could stand there--a warm, solid, friendly presence-- forever. It was a big dog, something to be reckoned with, but totally happy to be with you.
...
The 20B, engineered from the beginning to be smooth above all else, is a different dance. Lean on it, and it leans on you. Larger forces working less hard. I doubt this friendly but powerful attribute will change when the engine graduates from the PFS Obedience and Body-Building Academy, complete with a diploma, pedigree, and license to commit full boost on the public roads. It will just lean harder. Brutally hard if so asked.
A big dog in a hurry.
George's car is not like that. It reminds me of an Irish Wolfhound with which I had a passing acquaintance. The dog was, as the owner, told me, a "leaner." It would stand next you you and lean against your hip. You quickly learned to shift your weight to compensate. The dog seemed like it could stand there--a warm, solid, friendly presence-- forever. It was a big dog, something to be reckoned with, but totally happy to be with you.
...
The 20B, engineered from the beginning to be smooth above all else, is a different dance. Lean on it, and it leans on you. Larger forces working less hard. I doubt this friendly but powerful attribute will change when the engine graduates from the PFS Obedience and Body-Building Academy, complete with a diploma, pedigree, and license to commit full boost on the public roads. It will just lean harder. Brutally hard if so asked.
A big dog in a hurry.
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Gaijin Racing
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Normal, IL
I don't think its as hard as everyone says its going to be. I already have a nice FMIC on the way, Haltech is already installed, I have the correct fueling system (just need a couple more injectors)....
motor mounts
exhaust manifold
therm housing
sway bar
downpipe
flywheel/counterweight
prolly a few more things...
Doesn't sound too bad to me... I'm optimistic. (20b sitting in the garage next to my FC T2)
motor mounts
exhaust manifold
therm housing
sway bar
downpipe
flywheel/counterweight
prolly a few more things...
Doesn't sound too bad to me... I'm optimistic. (20b sitting in the garage next to my FC T2)
Rotorhead
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,136
Likes: 39
From: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Originally posted by j9fd3s
five? i only count 3.
1. george samuels car
2. chito's car
3. paul ko's car
there are about 5-7 more in the works but they dont run yet, right?
mike
20b-fc, NOT running yet
five? i only count 3.
1. george samuels car
2. chito's car
3. paul ko's car
there are about 5-7 more in the works but they dont run yet, right?
mike
20b-fc, NOT running yet
Thread Starter
Rotary Enthusiast
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From: UK
What sort of power would you expect from say a Extended port 20b with a T66 etc? The way i am looking at it is with a 20b its going to be slightly heavier but it will be more reliable at high Bhp.
Is there many FD's with them fitted? Which would be easier to get running?
Is there many FD's with them fitted? Which would be easier to get running?
Your Opinion is Wrong
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Peoples Republic of California
To do it yourself the FC is a much better platform.
There probably are more FD 20b's than FC 20b's... but thats becuase there are a couple shops that will build the 20bFD for you... for like $50k.
Add me to the list of 20b wannabe's...
Kurgen, im going to the same thing you're doing basically. Build the 13b up and car up with everything i can that can be used on the 20b car... So when the time comes to swap, i only have to add 20b, clutch, ignition, mounts, etc...
If you already have the cooling support, fuel support, and other minor stuff, it really isnt THAT bad of a project.... Then again theres always things that get in the way (like the started motor mounting, and the T2 tran exploding... )
There probably are more FD 20b's than FC 20b's... but thats becuase there are a couple shops that will build the 20bFD for you... for like $50k.
Add me to the list of 20b wannabe's...
Kurgen, im going to the same thing you're doing basically. Build the 13b up and car up with everything i can that can be used on the 20b car... So when the time comes to swap, i only have to add 20b, clutch, ignition, mounts, etc...
If you already have the cooling support, fuel support, and other minor stuff, it really isnt THAT bad of a project.... Then again theres always things that get in the way (like the started motor mounting, and the T2 tran exploding... )
Rotorhead
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,136
Likes: 39
From: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Originally posted by Grizzly
What sort of power would you expect from say a Extended port 20b with a T66 etc? The way i am looking at it is with a 20b its going to be slightly heavier but it will be more reliable at high Bhp.
Is there many FD's with them fitted? Which would be easier to get running?
What sort of power would you expect from say a Extended port 20b with a T66 etc? The way i am looking at it is with a 20b its going to be slightly heavier but it will be more reliable at high Bhp.
Is there many FD's with them fitted? Which would be easier to get running?
The 20B doesn't really add that much weight. The larger displacement means more power at lower rpms (ie more torque). Therefore, yes, it would generally be more reliable vs. a 13B at a given HP because it would be running at lower rpm and/or boost level.
Yes, Pettit makes a 20B Banzai package for an FD. The FD conversion is a little more difficult than the FB and FC because it requires a special engine subframe. Peter Farrell Supercars has also made 20B FD's.
http://www.pettitracing.com/
http://www.pfsupercars.com/bdypags/m...ultimedia.html
Chief Knucklehead
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Tarrytown, NY
Originally posted by peejay
The hard part (ha!) will be finding something with enough room under the hood to house such a beast.
The hard part (ha!) will be finding something with enough room under the hood to house such a beast.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 31,833
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From: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
Originally posted by SuperchargedRex
How about something without a hood? Change the suspension to IFS and IRS and it'll still weigh in under 2000lbs with a 20B.
How about something without a hood? Change the suspension to IFS and IRS and it'll still weigh in under 2000lbs with a 20B.
mike
Old [Sch|F]ool
Joined: May 2001
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From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
well I was thinking of making my own tube frame chassis anyway... I have a Mustang II front crossemember from a stillborn project (a manager was IFS'ing his '57 Chev pickup and decided to just go ahead and order a kit - one of his uncles works at Flaming River so he gets other goodies too) and I have a Subaru IRS complete with subframe, and if that's not enough I witnessed another ex-coworker stuffing a complete Thunderbird IRS under the back of his '55 Chev pickup (that truck was the reason why the manager bought a '57 pickup to modify - they look really cool)
I've always wanted to make a mid engined rotary powered sand rail, except pop-rivet some rudimentary body panels to it and add a windshield, and put fat gummy street tires on it... kinda like a mid-engined Lotus 7
but I think a front engined Super Seven clone would be more fun, especially considering the parts I already have available... but something THAT light wouldn't warrant a 4-rotor. A 4-rotor would look cooler under the hood of, say, an early 70's Valiant Hey a Slant Six fits in there with ease, right?
(that truck was the reason why the manager bought a '57 pickup to modify - they look really cool)I've always wanted to make a mid engined rotary powered sand rail, except pop-rivet some rudimentary body panels to it and add a windshield, and put fat gummy street tires on it... kinda like a mid-engined Lotus 7
but I think a front engined Super Seven clone would be more fun, especially considering the parts I already have available... but something THAT light wouldn't warrant a 4-rotor. A 4-rotor would look cooler under the hood of, say, an early 70's Valiant Hey a Slant Six fits in there with ease, right?
Old [Sch|F]ool
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 12,856
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From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Weld up some brackets and bolt it on in
See this is what i mean... he just took some scrap plate steel and MY little 110v MIG welder and fabbed up all these cool brackets one day... why should a pair of motor mounts of similar construction cost $450???
See this is what i mean... he just took some scrap plate steel and MY little 110v MIG welder and fabbed up all these cool brackets one day... why should a pair of motor mounts of similar construction cost $450???
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
actually what i want is something like a classic ferarri http://www.barchetta.cc/Common/Image....99CC.1099.jpg
with a rotary
mike
with a rotary
mike
Bourbon King
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 667
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From: Louisville, KY
Originally posted by j9fd3s
actually what i want is something like a classic ferarri http://www.barchetta.cc/Common/Image....99CC.1099.jpg
with a rotary
mike
actually what i want is something like a classic ferarri http://www.barchetta.cc/Common/Image....99CC.1099.jpg
with a rotary
mike
Heh, a crazier car with a 20B would be an MG Midget. I wonder who in their right mind will attemp this conversion? As for me, I'll be starting out with a 13B.
Who here has installed a 20B in a large american formerly V8 powered vehicle?
Who here has installed a 20B in a large american formerly V8 powered vehicle?
