20b engine swap?
It seems really reliable to me after testing with the jimstim. Do you have a particular reason for not liking it?
Damn engineers and science types...
Nope, Pepsi cans. Seriously, I just bought the flanges, and got the tubing on the cheap and a friend tig welded it for free.
Damn engineers and science types...
Nope, Pepsi cans. Seriously, I just bought the flanges, and got the tubing on the cheap and a friend tig welded it for free.
You'd be amazed just how smart this board is.
The problem is in the fact that those same DIY's act as if paying someone to do it and it actually costing money means those people are overpaying or being ripped off somehow. It paints a unrealistic picture for the guy who wants it done but can't do it himself.
Think about the order of events...
guy posts up he wants to do a 20B swap, implies he needs a shop to do it.
shop comes in and says it will cost you more than you think in this case $22k
DIY comes in and says no shop owner you're wrong I did it for less
Is the DIY guy doing it for free for the OP? no labor? only cost of materials? no fab time, no assembly time?
Can the shop owner say, "Hey I can sell you this used stuff, and there is some ebay knock off stuff we can use." ?
Don't think so, and probably not.
Yet he will insist the shop is wrong in it's assessment.
It reminds me of the guys a few years back on here who used to say, "Why are manifolds so expensive there's not much to it." Only to try and actually make one from scratch a few years later and post up, "Now I see why these cost so much, there is a lot of time involved in these." Suddenly a light goes off in their head hey maybe the shop isn't overcharging me.
You're comparing apples and oranges, and the problem is your trying to sell a orange as a apple to someone who needs the apple.
~S~
Think about the order of events...
guy posts up he wants to do a 20B swap, implies he needs a shop to do it.
shop comes in and says it will cost you more than you think in this case $22k
DIY comes in and says no shop owner you're wrong I did it for less
Is the DIY guy doing it for free for the OP? no labor? only cost of materials? no fab time, no assembly time?
Can the shop owner say, "Hey I can sell you this used stuff, and there is some ebay knock off stuff we can use." ?
Don't think so, and probably not.
Yet he will insist the shop is wrong in it's assessment.
It reminds me of the guys a few years back on here who used to say, "Why are manifolds so expensive there's not much to it." Only to try and actually make one from scratch a few years later and post up, "Now I see why these cost so much, there is a lot of time involved in these." Suddenly a light goes off in their head hey maybe the shop isn't overcharging me.
You're comparing apples and oranges, and the problem is your trying to sell a orange as a apple to someone who needs the apple.
~S~
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,152
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburg, KS.
Wow, this thread has gone off track.
Let me start by saying that I respect and appreciate the resourcefulness of DIY'ers. My hat goes off to anyone that can trade a beat up old Vert for a 20B engine. That is just great for that individual. Everyone else can not count on that happening to them.
When anyone is sitting down to create a budget plan for a project of this size, they really should not have any notations next to the 20B like:
1. 20B core $4000 (or source $200 vert to trade)
If 20B engines were so readily available that anyone could trade far less valuable items for them then the going price would not be so high.
You also should not be budgeting for used parts. Great for the DIY'er that does get a great deal on a used Haltech. However there are risks involved. Click over to the bad guy section and read a few hundred threads about people that got scammed buying used parts. Either because of an item never showing up or receiving fried/damaged product.
As a shop we are not going to take on the responsibility for purchasing and installing a used part, that could potentially be faulty. Can't tell a customer "We bought you a used Haltech for $1000, thought we were saving you big money, turns out it was crap, so now we are going to charge you for a new one, SO sorry!"
As I said before "... anyone can cut corners and/or buy used parts, we will not do it"
As for the DIY'er price list there are glaring holes, just to name a few:
T-von- your car is an N/A 20B, not remotely capable of the 500HP requested in the OP's post. Just so you know we find the FC oil cooler terribly inadequate on 13b N/A race cars. It is only 87 sq/in of surface area, a single Earls wide 25 row is 22% larger at 108.5 sq/in. Also, the $20 to make a subframe is not realistic, not to mention all of the turbo parts you just guesstimated, since you are after all N/A.
Jamespond24-you priced out your FC (not an FD). According to your list you are running a stock FC radiator, no bov, no exhaust, no boost controller, you never mention addressing the front sway bar, etc etc. I find it commendable that you can find suitable chassis so cheaply, but again there are a bunch of parts missing from even your stripped down FC list. Not to mention there is not an ACT clutch out there that can handle 600hp and the torque that the 20B makes for very long.
I can understand the budgetary constraints of the average DIY'er, and you can use all the used , knock-offs, traded, etc parts. Shops can not budget this way. Also, as has been pointed out multiple times in this thread labor is not free.
Can an individual build your own 20B on a budget? Of course they can. Shops do not have the leeway to quote used and/or traded parts. This would be why the one used part, the 20b engine, is always quoted with a rebuild. A DIY'er could just drop it in if they want and take the risk of having all that labor invested in a blown engine.
If you try hard enough you might be able to trade a used cell phone for a completed 20B car via Craigslist. This kid got a Porsche http://jalopnik.com/5591644/how-a-17...-for-a-porsche
Sean, you promised you wouldn't tell anyone. 
Let me start by saying that I respect and appreciate the resourcefulness of DIY'ers. My hat goes off to anyone that can trade a beat up old Vert for a 20B engine. That is just great for that individual. Everyone else can not count on that happening to them.
When anyone is sitting down to create a budget plan for a project of this size, they really should not have any notations next to the 20B like:
1. 20B core $4000 (or source $200 vert to trade)
If 20B engines were so readily available that anyone could trade far less valuable items for them then the going price would not be so high.
You also should not be budgeting for used parts. Great for the DIY'er that does get a great deal on a used Haltech. However there are risks involved. Click over to the bad guy section and read a few hundred threads about people that got scammed buying used parts. Either because of an item never showing up or receiving fried/damaged product.
As a shop we are not going to take on the responsibility for purchasing and installing a used part, that could potentially be faulty. Can't tell a customer "We bought you a used Haltech for $1000, thought we were saving you big money, turns out it was crap, so now we are going to charge you for a new one, SO sorry!"
As I said before "... anyone can cut corners and/or buy used parts, we will not do it"
As for the DIY'er price list there are glaring holes, just to name a few:
T-von- your car is an N/A 20B, not remotely capable of the 500HP requested in the OP's post. Just so you know we find the FC oil cooler terribly inadequate on 13b N/A race cars. It is only 87 sq/in of surface area, a single Earls wide 25 row is 22% larger at 108.5 sq/in. Also, the $20 to make a subframe is not realistic, not to mention all of the turbo parts you just guesstimated, since you are after all N/A.
Jamespond24-you priced out your FC (not an FD). According to your list you are running a stock FC radiator, no bov, no exhaust, no boost controller, you never mention addressing the front sway bar, etc etc. I find it commendable that you can find suitable chassis so cheaply, but again there are a bunch of parts missing from even your stripped down FC list. Not to mention there is not an ACT clutch out there that can handle 600hp and the torque that the 20B makes for very long.
I can understand the budgetary constraints of the average DIY'er, and you can use all the used , knock-offs, traded, etc parts. Shops can not budget this way. Also, as has been pointed out multiple times in this thread labor is not free.
Can an individual build your own 20B on a budget? Of course they can. Shops do not have the leeway to quote used and/or traded parts. This would be why the one used part, the 20b engine, is always quoted with a rebuild. A DIY'er could just drop it in if they want and take the risk of having all that labor invested in a blown engine.
If you try hard enough you might be able to trade a used cell phone for a completed 20B car via Craigslist. This kid got a Porsche http://jalopnik.com/5591644/how-a-17...-for-a-porsche
... Chris and I that's what we do, we then shut down the shop for the day go home in our fancy expensive cars that were paid for with arms and legs and we strip off all our clothes and roll around naked in all our money, dreaming of the joys the next day at the shop will bring.
Wow, this thread has gone off track.
Let me start by saying that I respect and appreciate the resourcefulness of DIY'ers. My hat goes off to anyone that can trade a beat up old Vert for a 20B engine. That is just great for that individual. Everyone else can not count on that happening to them.
When anyone is sitting down to create a budget plan for a project of this size, they really should not have any notations next to the 20B like:
1. 20B core $4000 (or source $200 vert to trade)
If 20B engines were so readily available that anyone could trade far less valuable items for them then the going price would not be so high.
You also should not be budgeting for used parts. Great for the DIY'er that does get a great deal on a used Haltech. However there are risks involved. Click over to the bad guy section and read a few hundred threads about people that got scammed buying used parts. Either because of an item never showing up or receiving fried/damaged product.
As a shop we are not going to take on the responsibility for purchasing and installing a used part, that could potentially be faulty. Can't tell a customer "We bought you a used Haltech for $1000, thought we were saving you big money, turns out it was crap, so now we are going to charge you for a new one, SO sorry!"
As I said before "... anyone can cut corners and/or buy used parts, we will not do it"
As for the DIY'er price list there are glaring holes, just to name a few:
T-von- your car is an N/A 20B, not remotely capable of the 500HP requested in the OP's post. Just so you know we find the FC oil cooler terribly inadequate on 13b N/A race cars. It is only 87 sq/in of surface area, a single Earls wide 25 row is 22% larger at 108.5 sq/in. Also, the $20 to make a subframe is not realistic, not to mention all of the turbo parts you just guesstimated, since you are after all N/A.
Jamespond24-you priced out your FC (not an FD). According to your list you are running a stock FC radiator, no bov, no exhaust, no boost controller, you never mention addressing the front sway bar, etc etc. I find it commendable that you can find suitable chassis so cheaply, but again there are a bunch of parts missing from even your stripped down FC list. Not to mention there is not an ACT clutch out there that can handle 600hp and the torque that the 20B makes for very long.
I can understand the budgetary constraints of the average DIY'er, and you can use all the used , knock-offs, traded, etc parts. Shops can not budget this way. Also, as has been pointed out multiple times in this thread labor is not free.
Can an individual build your own 20B on a budget? Of course they can. Shops do not have the leeway to quote used and/or traded parts. This would be why the one used part, the 20b engine, is always quoted with a rebuild. A DIY'er could just drop it in if they want and take the risk of having all that labor invested in a blown engine.
If you try hard enough you might be able to trade a used cell phone for a completed 20B car via Craigslist. This kid got a Porsche http://jalopnik.com/5591644/how-a-17...-for-a-porsche
Sean, you promised you wouldn't tell anyone.
Let me start by saying that I respect and appreciate the resourcefulness of DIY'ers. My hat goes off to anyone that can trade a beat up old Vert for a 20B engine. That is just great for that individual. Everyone else can not count on that happening to them.
When anyone is sitting down to create a budget plan for a project of this size, they really should not have any notations next to the 20B like:
1. 20B core $4000 (or source $200 vert to trade)
If 20B engines were so readily available that anyone could trade far less valuable items for them then the going price would not be so high.
You also should not be budgeting for used parts. Great for the DIY'er that does get a great deal on a used Haltech. However there are risks involved. Click over to the bad guy section and read a few hundred threads about people that got scammed buying used parts. Either because of an item never showing up or receiving fried/damaged product.
As a shop we are not going to take on the responsibility for purchasing and installing a used part, that could potentially be faulty. Can't tell a customer "We bought you a used Haltech for $1000, thought we were saving you big money, turns out it was crap, so now we are going to charge you for a new one, SO sorry!"
As I said before "... anyone can cut corners and/or buy used parts, we will not do it"
As for the DIY'er price list there are glaring holes, just to name a few:
T-von- your car is an N/A 20B, not remotely capable of the 500HP requested in the OP's post. Just so you know we find the FC oil cooler terribly inadequate on 13b N/A race cars. It is only 87 sq/in of surface area, a single Earls wide 25 row is 22% larger at 108.5 sq/in. Also, the $20 to make a subframe is not realistic, not to mention all of the turbo parts you just guesstimated, since you are after all N/A.
Jamespond24-you priced out your FC (not an FD). According to your list you are running a stock FC radiator, no bov, no exhaust, no boost controller, you never mention addressing the front sway bar, etc etc. I find it commendable that you can find suitable chassis so cheaply, but again there are a bunch of parts missing from even your stripped down FC list. Not to mention there is not an ACT clutch out there that can handle 600hp and the torque that the 20B makes for very long.
I can understand the budgetary constraints of the average DIY'er, and you can use all the used , knock-offs, traded, etc parts. Shops can not budget this way. Also, as has been pointed out multiple times in this thread labor is not free.
Can an individual build your own 20B on a budget? Of course they can. Shops do not have the leeway to quote used and/or traded parts. This would be why the one used part, the 20b engine, is always quoted with a rebuild. A DIY'er could just drop it in if they want and take the risk of having all that labor invested in a blown engine.
If you try hard enough you might be able to trade a used cell phone for a completed 20B car via Craigslist. This kid got a Porsche http://jalopnik.com/5591644/how-a-17...-for-a-porsche
Sean, you promised you wouldn't tell anyone.
I agree with you 100% Especially about the thread going way off track.
But you also said this...Pushing it even further off track.
I'm just sick of people saying it cant be done for less. What I think is the main point here is that it can be done for less in a DIY situation depending on experience and talent. But the DIYer wont get the experience of the shop and will likely have to do a lot of fine tuning. On top of that they will have to get their hands dirty.
I know for a fact it can be done in an FC for less than 20k with all new stuff. I can't say I am 100% sure about an FD. I can also see why it is more expensive for a shop to do this they cant afford trial error and tweaking designs too much. Shops need to just nail it the first time and that can be more expensive.
I'm just sick of people saying it cant be done for less. What I think is the main point here is that it can be done for less in a DIY situation depending on experience and talent. But the DIYer wont get the experience of the shop and will likely have to do a lot of fine tuning. On top of that they will have to get their hands dirty.
I'm just sick of people saying it cant be done for less. What I think is the main point here is that it can be done for less in a DIY situation depending on experience and talent. But the DIYer wont get the experience of the shop and will likely have to do a lot of fine tuning. On top of that they will have to get their hands dirty.
I provided a realistic price breakdown associated with the conversion to an FD to back up my statement about the cost. By no stretch of the imagination did I take this off track. As a matter of fact I would have to say that you have dragged it further off track by tossing your .02 in about the cost of a DIY FC conversion. How does that possibly add anything to a thread about a 20B FD?
By the rational being used in this thread, I should be able to walk into any Porsche dealer and pick out my favorite color used Boxster, then proceed to freak out and call the salesman a liar, when he won't trade it to me for my used cell phone. The kid using Craigslist proved that was the value of the car....
Is your friend going to weld together the manifold for the OP for free as well? Are you going to cover the cost of shipping to Canada for him? If he is willing to do all this free tig welding, give me his name, I am tired of having my tanks filled and buying all the rod.
Oh really, **** i didn't realize that this what about an FD, its not like i mentioned it twice myself.
As far as I am concerned DIY can go as far as making your own custom intercooler.
**** gets done cheaper the more you fab yourself.
I'm not even knocking what you do. I would charge no less for a 20B swap than you, I would probably charge more as a matter of fact.
Get a grip, cool down chief.
As far as I am concerned DIY can go as far as making your own custom intercooler.
**** gets done cheaper the more you fab yourself.
I'm not even knocking what you do. I would charge no less for a 20B swap than you, I would probably charge more as a matter of fact.
Get a grip, cool down chief.
T-von- your car is an N/A 20B, not remotely capable of the 500HP requested in the OP's post. Just so you know we find the FC oil cooler terribly inadequate on 13b N/A race cars. It is only 87 sq/in of surface area, a single Earls wide 25 row is 22% larger at 108.5 sq/in. Also, the $20 to make a subframe is not realistic, not to mention all of the turbo parts you just guesstimated, since you are after all N/A.
The prices I quoted for oil coolers wasn't for the Fc. I only threw that in because that's what I'm running. I guess it was confusing the way I wrote that. I can't understand how anyone is having cooling problems with their Fc oil coolers. The Earl 25 row may have more surface area but it doesn't hold the same oil capacity as the Fc because of it's thickness. I know it's thickness makes it harder for the air to pass through. That's why ducting is very important to force it through. The Fc cooler is also nearly three times the size of the Fd's unit yet the R1 has two and is enough to cool a turbo ed 13b; yet one Fc can't cool a NA 13b? I guess I will have to see for myself. Too me that's like saying stock Fd radiator is better than a larger capacity Koyo. I'm getting ready to start driving my car so we'll see how well I've done with the way I engineered my ducting and directing the air flow. If it turns out to be inadequate, it's no big deal, I only paid $50 for it. LOL!
Sub frame metal price is realistic because that's what I paid to modify mine. Modifying a subframe isn't rocket as I've come to find out.
Lastly I guesstimated higher than normal on those turbo prices (especially the turbo). There are a lot of quality parts out their that don't need to have a brand name on them. Even though my set up is NA, I designed everything to make the turbo transistion very smooth later on.
This quote here is very general and says nothing about the chassis. I still disagree with what you think a DIYer can't do for less than 22k. Even if it's in an Fd! I'll tell you what I'll start a new thread displaying my cost of everything when I turbo my 20b to 500+rwhp. Your gonna be shocked when when my final tally is well below that figure while including my wheels, tires, body kit, and painting. All that stuff I'm doing myself. Never underestimate the resourceful DIYer.
Mariah Motorsport wanted $35,000
Pettit wanted $36,000
I haven't inquired recently, but I doubt their prices have gone down.
The real problem here is that the FD in its newest form in the U.S. is 15yrs old and is a very affordable sports car. So much so that some of them have been severely ragged out due to lack of maintanance. I know we all know this but the truth is that it has fallen into a category where the majority of the owners can't really afford to do big modifications and they cut corners. I am not saying all are in this category, but the majority of the cars are ragged out.
I think this shows up in this thread. I am not saying that anyone who did the swap themselves cut corners as I have seen some amazing things come from home garages, but lets face it many times it happens.
I am sorry but doing a 20B swap w/o quality parts makes no sense to me. It's like rebuilding a motor w/ parts almost out of spec. Sure it will run for for how long? Why spend all that time to do it again???
I completely agree w/ Chris and Sean on this one. You have to realize that rent, insurance, electricity, advertising, and phones are not free. Believe it or not all those things are more expensive for a business than an individual.
You are paying for knowledge, time, and quality something I feel like has been lost at times. Why do you think you can buy more roller rx7's than any other sports car??? People start something and realize they cannot finish it.
For those select few who have taken the time (in some cases 5+yrs) to complete the swap themselves congrats, there are some awesome builds.
When you realize all that is done and having someone complete the swap in a couple months verses years I feel the prices stated are more than fair. Especially, if you compare what it takes to make close to 650 + on other cars. You have to think about "what is your time worth"???
Honestly, to create a factory like set up w/ the 20B. I can't see it done less than $20,000. Yes I have done one. It was a N/A w/ a custom intake manifold and exhaust and after all was said in done it was close to 17,000 for parts, and that is with out turbo parts.
What quality do you want and how long do you want it to last? I am not telling anyone to get ripped off, but lets be realistic about what you are wanting.
I'll take a #2 please, but I want my 20B to make 1000Hp and my total should be under $15000.
Think about it guys.
Rant off.
I think this shows up in this thread. I am not saying that anyone who did the swap themselves cut corners as I have seen some amazing things come from home garages, but lets face it many times it happens.
I am sorry but doing a 20B swap w/o quality parts makes no sense to me. It's like rebuilding a motor w/ parts almost out of spec. Sure it will run for for how long? Why spend all that time to do it again???
I completely agree w/ Chris and Sean on this one. You have to realize that rent, insurance, electricity, advertising, and phones are not free. Believe it or not all those things are more expensive for a business than an individual.
You are paying for knowledge, time, and quality something I feel like has been lost at times. Why do you think you can buy more roller rx7's than any other sports car??? People start something and realize they cannot finish it.
For those select few who have taken the time (in some cases 5+yrs) to complete the swap themselves congrats, there are some awesome builds.
When you realize all that is done and having someone complete the swap in a couple months verses years I feel the prices stated are more than fair. Especially, if you compare what it takes to make close to 650 + on other cars. You have to think about "what is your time worth"???
Honestly, to create a factory like set up w/ the 20B. I can't see it done less than $20,000. Yes I have done one. It was a N/A w/ a custom intake manifold and exhaust and after all was said in done it was close to 17,000 for parts, and that is with out turbo parts.
What quality do you want and how long do you want it to last? I am not telling anyone to get ripped off, but lets be realistic about what you are wanting.
I'll take a #2 please, but I want my 20B to make 1000Hp and my total should be under $15000.
Think about it guys.
Rant off.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,152
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburg, KS.
Wow, this thread has gone off track.
Let me start by saying that I respect and appreciate the resourcefulness of DIY'ers. My hat goes off to anyone that can trade a beat up old Vert for a 20B engine. That is just great for that individual. Everyone else can not count on that happening to them.
When anyone is sitting down to create a budget plan for a project of this size, they really should not have any notations next to the 20B like:
1. 20B core $4000 (or source $200 vert to trade)
If 20B engines were so readily available that anyone could trade far less valuable items for them then the going price would not be so high.
You also should not be budgeting for used parts. Great for the DIY'er that does get a great deal on a used Haltech. However there are risks involved. Click over to the bad guy section and read a few hundred threads about people that got scammed buying used parts. Either because of an item never showing up or receiving fried/damaged product.
As a shop we are not going to take on the responsibility for purchasing and installing a used part, that could potentially be faulty. Can't tell a customer "We bought you a used Haltech for $1000, thought we were saving you big money, turns out it was crap, so now we are going to charge you for a new one, SO sorry!"
As I said before "... anyone can cut corners and/or buy used parts, we will not do it"
As for the DIY'er price list there are glaring holes, just to name a few:
T-von- your car is an N/A 20B, not remotely capable of the 500HP requested in the OP's post. Just so you know we find the FC oil cooler terribly inadequate on 13b N/A race cars. It is only 87 sq/in of surface area, a single Earls wide 25 row is 22% larger at 108.5 sq/in. Also, the $20 to make a subframe is not realistic, not to mention all of the turbo parts you just guesstimated, since you are after all N/A.
Jamespond24-you priced out your FC (not an FD). According to your list you are running a stock FC radiator, no bov, no exhaust, no boost controller, you never mention addressing the front sway bar, etc etc. I find it commendable that you can find suitable chassis so cheaply, but again there are a bunch of parts missing from even your stripped down FC list. Not to mention there is not an ACT clutch out there that can handle 600hp and the torque that the 20B makes for very long.
I can understand the budgetary constraints of the average DIY'er, and you can use all the used , knock-offs, traded, etc parts. Shops can not budget this way. Also, as has been pointed out multiple times in this thread labor is not free.
Can an individual build your own 20B on a budget? Of course they can. Shops do not have the leeway to quote used and/or traded parts. This would be why the one used part, the 20b engine, is always quoted with a rebuild. A DIY'er could just drop it in if they want and take the risk of having all that labor invested in a blown engine.
If you try hard enough you might be able to trade a used cell phone for a completed 20B car via Craigslist. This kid got a Porsche http://jalopnik.com/5591644/how-a-17...-for-a-porsche
Sean, you promised you wouldn't tell anyone.
Let me start by saying that I respect and appreciate the resourcefulness of DIY'ers. My hat goes off to anyone that can trade a beat up old Vert for a 20B engine. That is just great for that individual. Everyone else can not count on that happening to them.
When anyone is sitting down to create a budget plan for a project of this size, they really should not have any notations next to the 20B like:
1. 20B core $4000 (or source $200 vert to trade)
If 20B engines were so readily available that anyone could trade far less valuable items for them then the going price would not be so high.
You also should not be budgeting for used parts. Great for the DIY'er that does get a great deal on a used Haltech. However there are risks involved. Click over to the bad guy section and read a few hundred threads about people that got scammed buying used parts. Either because of an item never showing up or receiving fried/damaged product.
As a shop we are not going to take on the responsibility for purchasing and installing a used part, that could potentially be faulty. Can't tell a customer "We bought you a used Haltech for $1000, thought we were saving you big money, turns out it was crap, so now we are going to charge you for a new one, SO sorry!"
As I said before "... anyone can cut corners and/or buy used parts, we will not do it"
As for the DIY'er price list there are glaring holes, just to name a few:
T-von- your car is an N/A 20B, not remotely capable of the 500HP requested in the OP's post. Just so you know we find the FC oil cooler terribly inadequate on 13b N/A race cars. It is only 87 sq/in of surface area, a single Earls wide 25 row is 22% larger at 108.5 sq/in. Also, the $20 to make a subframe is not realistic, not to mention all of the turbo parts you just guesstimated, since you are after all N/A.
Jamespond24-you priced out your FC (not an FD). According to your list you are running a stock FC radiator, no bov, no exhaust, no boost controller, you never mention addressing the front sway bar, etc etc. I find it commendable that you can find suitable chassis so cheaply, but again there are a bunch of parts missing from even your stripped down FC list. Not to mention there is not an ACT clutch out there that can handle 600hp and the torque that the 20B makes for very long.
I can understand the budgetary constraints of the average DIY'er, and you can use all the used , knock-offs, traded, etc parts. Shops can not budget this way. Also, as has been pointed out multiple times in this thread labor is not free.
Can an individual build your own 20B on a budget? Of course they can. Shops do not have the leeway to quote used and/or traded parts. This would be why the one used part, the 20b engine, is always quoted with a rebuild. A DIY'er could just drop it in if they want and take the risk of having all that labor invested in a blown engine.
If you try hard enough you might be able to trade a used cell phone for a completed 20B car via Craigslist. This kid got a Porsche http://jalopnik.com/5591644/how-a-17...-for-a-porsche
Sean, you promised you wouldn't tell anyone.
The koyo radiator comes with the FC that I bought along with a bov. I toke the sway bar out to see how it handle at the track if I don't like the way it handle I can move it forward. I spent $250 for afew 4" piping at my local muffler shop which I made my complete exhaust system out of.
I know not everybody can do the 20B swap but I would not discourage them to not try it. You'll never know unless you try and knowing the right people helps alot.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,152
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburg, KS.
I do understand why shop charge what they do, there's alot of work and knowledge in doing it right. I'm the kind of person that what to learn from my own mistake and trust me I been through alot of opening motor. The mistake has made us understand the culprit and to improve it, one thing that helps us alot is Eric from Perto Rico flew here to show us his tricks.
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