Just picked up another FD after being out of the platform for a decade. Car currently has a decent motor but dead turbos. Basic necessities mods like vac delete, aftermarket guages, fpr, rad have been done, but no hard performance mods just an exhaust and a bov. So in the short term I'll be swapping in a single while I sort the rest of the car out, but my long term goal (read as 2 year plan) is to swap out the 13b for a 20b (or a 4 rotor if I can swing it). My question is what parts in the single swap are going to be able to be carried over to the 20b? Just so I know what items I should be spending good money on and what will be throw away.

 

From the engine, trans, fuel, management perspective? Basically nothing, this assuming you're going for a single turbo build with ~500whp.

Engine - Keep or buy a 13B-REW front cover if you want to keep PS/AC
Engine accessories - Keep the PS and AC as some kits support them.
Engine mounting - you will need a mount kit, toss the stock mounts.
Transmission - 500hp is pushing the limits of the stock trans/driveshaft/diff. Much depends on driving style/usecase - but a CD009, T56 mag, or DCT is in your future.
Clutch - Toss
Fuel system - Toss, you will want between 6-9 injectors, matched in pairs of 3.
Fuel pump - Toss, you will want either a CJ or Radium style setup with Dual or Triple pumps.
Fuel hard lines - Undecided, but I would upgrade to 1/2 feed and 3/8 return.
Ignition - You will want to run haltech/aem smart coils - ditch the stock coils/ignitor/twin power if it's there.
Electrical - plan on a ~140 to 200amp alternator for the increased fuel demands and electronics
ECU/Wiring - HA! Junk.
Radiator - Depending on climate and use - the stock FD radiator can be undersized. Many of us use a larger koyo from another application or custom radiator.
Oil cooling - You will want dual oil coolers, stock or aftermarket 19 row.
Turbo, intercooler, controls, everything related - dump
Exhaust - plan on replacing to support a 3.5" or larger system

That was the long way of saying: you will keep very little and spend $30k in todays money to do even the most basic swap.
I'm sure I am forgetting things, but feel free to ask.

I've got a spreadsheet I've been meaning to post with my spending associated with my swap. I'm at $35k and it's not running, yet.... another $12k and it will be.

 

THat answers some of my questions, its mostly around the things like the rad, fuel lines, stand alone etc and what would be big enough to be used with the 20b. Would hate to do fuel lines and have them be to small. Or to fab a 3" titanium exhaust just to bin it later. If there's any stand alone systems preferred for running a 20b or any I should stay away from. The coil information is super good to know.

 

Here's some basic recommendations to get your research started.
Ignition - Haltech/AEM smart coils are a good choice up to 800WHP. Above that, look at the Fuel Tech driver and coil setup.
ECU - Haltech and FuelTech are popular right now, Microtech and Adaptronic are still used just not favored due to "reasons"
Turbo - Power goals are going to mainly impact this, but Borg Warner's SXE line or smaller frame 9280/9180 EFR, Garrets G series, or Precision turbos are good fit. A 1.25 Exhaust housing is a good reference size - but again goes back to HP/Response goals. Same for oil cooler or oil and water cooled. Or T4/T6 flange vs V-Band hotside inlet - lot's of choices.
Wiring - Custom "PnP" harnesses from LMS EFI or Tuning Toy Technology are available.
Fuel Lines - Run -8 feed and -6 return if you're looking for a good mid point between 13B and 20B support, or -10/-8 for high HP 20B goals.
Fuel pump - I'm biased - the Radium setup will support both your 13b and 20b goals with just a swap of pumps. It's great. Highly recommend.
Fuel rails and Regulators- I've used both Radium, Full Function, and Xcessive. They are specific to the 20b.
Fuel injectors - I've used Injector Dynamics (ID1300XDS, 1700XDS, 2600) and Bosch
Exhaust - You could fab a 3 to 3.5" downpipe, run 3.5 for the midpipe/muffler. There are some turbos that do better with a 3.5 (EFR, smaller frame T4) or 4" (SXE, G series)

There's just so much that goes into one of these builds people don't normally factor in.
You're in BC per your profile, drive over to the team at Force Fed Performance. Buy them lunch, talk through it with who I would assume is your local option for a tuner, and get their opinion.

 

Yeah I'm about 3 hours south of Kelowna and the force fed guys not to far away. I'd like to fall into the 7-800whp range and make nice reliable power for the track and occasionally street. My last car was 670hp with a 2800 lb fully stripped race weight so this is just the next step up from that in a lighter platform. I'll be running it at area and the Spokane road courses not looking for a drag car type setup. The wife is on board with with the project along side her supra so cost isn't much of a concern.
Haltec will probably be the play as that seems to be force-feds go to ecu. Any draw backs to the radium fuel setup?

 

Hey man, interested in the Microtech/Adaptronic aspect of this. I believe some of the fastest rotaries in the world run Microtech and I'm curious as to why you prefer fueltech/Haltech?

 

Hopefully this clarify's a few things. First; when selecting an aftermarket ECU it's important to define what your use case is. Street? Drag? Track? Second; support. Support being both product and tuner. Your ECU is only as good as the company behind it and the tuner setting it up for your application.

The first 20B swap I did in ~2007 ran a Microtech. It was a simple and solid ECU. The Microtech tuners I've met are drag focused, which their ECU's seem to succeed at. In all of the cars I've worked on over the last ~17 years, only 2 or 3 ran Microtech. In your area of the country, there might be a great tuner for them.

For Adaptronic, ill be clear - I have nothing against Adaptronic and run one in my White 94. It's simply that support for the product (bug fixes, firmware, email-support, tuners willing to work with it) is slowly dropping. All new development is going into the Haltech line of products, which continually get updates and has good support both from the company and tuners. I don't want to suggest a product that could be end of sale in 6 months.

Fueltech is a new product, to me - which has neat features and good support. Their presence is growing in the rotary world and it's something I look forward to testing out on an upcoming drag build.

For my projects, finding a tuner is just as important as selecting the right ECU. I have no local rotary tuners. My options are to tune my own car, drive up to Force Fed in BC, who focus on Link and Haltech - or flying in a tuner.

The whole point of this is: Make an informed decision, guided by a tuner you trust. Kinda like using a real estate agent - you definitely want one for your first house purchase, but maybe on the next you don't need one.

Here's the most important comment I'll make - The worst mistake you can make is buying the ECU before the motor is even in the car. I can't tell you how many people rush to buy electronics when doing a build, only for life to rear it's ugly head, and postpone the build a few years. Working with an outdated ECU sucks - "Oh we fixed that in the next hardware revision, buy this $475 replacement board to fix it." I've had it happen to three builds with different ECU's. Buy the ECU when you know it's going to be plugged in and cranked over.

 

in short - nothing useful. having done this a few times i wouldn't be concerned with these issues. I don't know what those engines are selling for as of late but a glance at ebay suggests roughly $10k asking price.
Presuming your core is good - a rebuild could run up beyond the $10k mark (provided you aren't doing it yourself).
before the engine hits the chassis you're looking at maybe $25k? again, not 100% sure what the going rate is for a good core.

Wouter's car is a solid example of engine/drivetrain in terms of a shopping list. so if you're stuck on "what to buy" - his setup could give you a good start.
when you're ready I'd recommend forcefed performance.
in my conversations with Marko I found him to be very kind and generous with his time.
besides that they have a proven record w/ Wouter's program.
in fact i think Marko has been running tests with cnc porting for a long while with some really impressive results.

take it from me - doing this **** by yourself can suck. if you can surround yourself with quality guys - do it.