Is it worth while removing the rat's nest?
05-20-05, 11:59 PM
#1
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Is it worth while removing the rat's nest?
Numerous threads say remove the rat's nest, it has almost become an act of faith.
The question is what do you real gain in power. My experience is that is less than 3rwhp as shown on a before and after dyno test. Is this typical? Is it worthwhile in terms of cost unless you do it yourself as the cost quoted by several rotary shops was quite high?
While it is an obvios modification for a track, car removing the rat's nest may be low down the priority of a street car.
The question is what do you real gain in power. My experience is that is less than 3rwhp as shown on a before and after dyno test. Is this typical? Is it worthwhile in terms of cost unless you do it yourself as the cost quoted by several rotary shops was quite high?
While it is an obvios modification for a track, car removing the rat's nest may be low down the priority of a street car.
05-21-05, 12:21 AM
#2
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I think people do it more to clean up the engine bay than anything else. It makes things easier to work on. Also, if you are removing the air pump I think removing the rat's nats is necessary, but I may be wrong on that.
Zach
Zach
05-21-05, 12:55 AM
#4
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It greatly simplifies the engine bay, you learn about your car, and while you are at it if you feel like it you can cut your wireing harness WAY down. But yea, it only frees up hp, like removing the A/C or converting to e-fan. BUT, if you add an exhaust while you are at it....big improvement.
05-21-05, 03:41 AM
#6
Originally Posted by PaulFitzwarryne
Numerous threads say remove the rat's nest, it has almost become an act of faith.
The question is what do you real gain in power. My experience is that is less than 3rwhp as shown on a before and after dyno test. Is this typical? Is it worthwhile in terms of cost unless you do it yourself as the cost quoted by several rotary shops was quite high?
While it is an obvios modification for a track, car removing the rat's nest may be low down the priority of a street car.
The question is what do you real gain in power. My experience is that is less than 3rwhp as shown on a before and after dyno test. Is this typical? Is it worthwhile in terms of cost unless you do it yourself as the cost quoted by several rotary shops was quite high?
While it is an obvios modification for a track, car removing the rat's nest may be low down the priority of a street car.
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05-21-05, 07:43 AM
#8
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I took mine off, and the exhaust actually smells cleaner than before. No more exhaust fumes. If nothing else, think of the weight savings and removing the drag of the air pump from your system. I recommend it for those reasons as well as the ones stated above...
05-21-05, 11:43 AM
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Who cares about resale value? It is your car make it how you want it... as soon as you do anything to this car to make it non-original, you take away from the value. Who cares!?!?!?
05-21-05, 12:53 PM
#11
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I also don't recommend removing it if you live in a place where you have to smog your car every now and then. Over here in **** California, we have to smog every 2 years. Its either re-installing all the rats nest/emissions or finding some guy and slipping him some money to pass.
05-21-05, 02:16 PM
#12
Originally Posted by drozhenbane
3 words..........
simplicity, simplicity, simplicity
Thats reason enough......
simplicity, simplicity, simplicity
Thats reason enough......
Thats one of the biggest reasons i did it. By the time i was done, you could actually see the tiny engine.
05-21-05, 04:07 PM
#13
Originally Posted by calvinpaul
Who cares about resale value? It is your car make it how you want it... as soon as you do anything to this car to make it non-original, you take away from the value. Who cares!?!?!?
05-21-05, 04:12 PM
#14
05-22-05, 12:36 AM
#15
****ty Tune= Low #'s
removing mine caused me to stop doing backfires which was getting me in trouble,,,caused exhaust fume smell to be not as bad(even though i was also using a RB cat pipe at the time) and it took 17 pounds out of my engine bay
05-22-05, 01:04 AM
#16
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Without the nest there, you can actually GET to the carb bolts!
It isn't very difficult to do it yourself, there should be no reason to take it to a rotary shop (which suck around here anyway)
It isn't very difficult to do it yourself, there should be no reason to take it to a rotary shop (which suck around here anyway)
05-23-05, 08:23 PM
#18
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I am no mechanic but I am not afraid to start wrenching if I know what I am going after,
I got a free 1984 GS I traded for detail work on the owners newer car. He thinks the clutch was in need of repalcement because the pedal was stuck to the floor.
I checked into the clutch figured it was hydrulics and made the trade hoping I was right
I had a very good experinced mechanic friend look / listen to the engine. It would run on one rotar and not idle at all. He started looking for vac leaks and found so many it was a joke.
I yanked the nest following the 29 pages and it started right up and idled the first crank or two.
the bonus is that now I can work on the clutch hydrulics without wondering what all those hoses and wires do and how to put them all back.
if you dont need it yank it!
I got a free 1984 GS I traded for detail work on the owners newer car. He thinks the clutch was in need of repalcement because the pedal was stuck to the floor.
I checked into the clutch figured it was hydrulics and made the trade hoping I was right
I had a very good experinced mechanic friend look / listen to the engine. It would run on one rotar and not idle at all. He started looking for vac leaks and found so many it was a joke.
I yanked the nest following the 29 pages and it started right up and idled the first crank or two.
the bonus is that now I can work on the clutch hydrulics without wondering what all those hoses and wires do and how to put them all back.
if you dont need it yank it!
Last edited by FreeB1stGen; 05-23-05 at 08:26 PM.
05-23-05, 11:29 PM
#19
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I have always wanted to do this.
Is there an actual EASY tutorial on how to go about it. Here in Australia, well at least Adelaide, we don't have any emissions tests or anything. I hate looking at my rats nest, I really want it gone to clean up.
The only thing I am worried about is that I will remove something that I really need. When you remove it, surely you still must replace the cords/hoses etc with others to still make the emissions/engine/carb work properly?
What are the benefits besides HP (is it only like 2-3HP?)
What are the disadvantages?
Is there an actual EASY tutorial on how to go about it. Here in Australia, well at least Adelaide, we don't have any emissions tests or anything. I hate looking at my rats nest, I really want it gone to clean up.
The only thing I am worried about is that I will remove something that I really need. When you remove it, surely you still must replace the cords/hoses etc with others to still make the emissions/engine/carb work properly?
What are the benefits besides HP (is it only like 2-3HP?)
What are the disadvantages?
05-23-05, 11:49 PM
#20
advantages = simplicity easy to track down anything not working properly and you have easy access to the carburatoer bolts and stuff that you could never even see before like the idle screw...
Disadvantages = you will lose like 30 pounds of solid crap (oh wait is that so bad) but the only other real disadvantage would be if they start checking emissions again in your area you could be in trouble.
Personally I run a full racing beat exhaust system and a aftermarket weber carburatoer, this past weekend when I swapped my old engine out you should have seen all the emissions that I got to rip right off. .. With the aftermarket intake and exhaust you don't use any of the stock lines at all its great, cleans the engine bay right up...
Disadvantages = you will lose like 30 pounds of solid crap (oh wait is that so bad) but the only other real disadvantage would be if they start checking emissions again in your area you could be in trouble.
Personally I run a full racing beat exhaust system and a aftermarket weber carburatoer, this past weekend when I swapped my old engine out you should have seen all the emissions that I got to rip right off. .. With the aftermarket intake and exhaust you don't use any of the stock lines at all its great, cleans the engine bay right up...
05-24-05, 08:58 PM
#24
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The only thing I am concerned with is just how bad the emissions are after.... does the oil/gas smell get much worse?
Good thing about Australia is that here cars before I think 1987 don't need a cat or anything
Good thing about Australia is that here cars before I think 1987 don't need a cat or anything
05-24-05, 09:34 PM
#25
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Removing the rat's nest makes it far easier to work on the car, but you only gain a piddle of power from removing the air pump.
The pump is always spinning, but it's really only under idle conditions that the ACV is sending that pumped air into the exhaust (I think). -Even then, I doubt it's really working all that hard. At speed, that pumped air is allowed to free-flow around the cat skin I think.
The way things are headed in the states emissions-wise, if you have a functioning rat's nest in tact, you should concider yourself lucky. If you do remove it, I suggest taking a few pictures and removing it rather "surgically" so that it can be reinstalled easily.
The pump is always spinning, but it's really only under idle conditions that the ACV is sending that pumped air into the exhaust (I think). -Even then, I doubt it's really working all that hard. At speed, that pumped air is allowed to free-flow around the cat skin I think.
The way things are headed in the states emissions-wise, if you have a functioning rat's nest in tact, you should concider yourself lucky. If you do remove it, I suggest taking a few pictures and removing it rather "surgically" so that it can be reinstalled easily.