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So this is becoming more of an issue as the rainy season sets in and I'm betting y'all can guess what it is. This morning I had one of the worst instances of it so far:
That would be 100% Oregon rainwater... Anyway, over the past six months, I've replaced my exterior window seals and door weather strips; though it still seems like water is getting in near the front of the doors by the mirrors. The only place water is showing up is the footwells and the real issue (not to mention rust and carpet destruction) is that my defog can't keep up with all the moisture in the morning. What are some common spots that water slips in on these cars and how can I get to them to check and see if they're leaking? Also, if a couple folks wouldn't mind posting some photos of their door seals that would be well appreciated - I'm starting to wonder if they didn't form correctly when I installed them. The seals I bough were the "supersoft" or something like that from Rock Auto, and they supposedly carry a 15 year warranty that I might as well use if y'all think they're part of the problem.
The air inlet for the blower motor likes to rot out and cause leaks. Its a raised square section with a metal screen. I've had a few rot out and cause leaks. Pull the wiper cowl and shine a light in there and check it for rust. That's where I would start if its only on the passenger side.
Next, I would check the sunroof drains and make sure they're clear and hooked up properly. I've seen them fall off and clogging can cause interior water issues. Rodents chewed the right rear drain tube on my Nordic Green RX-8 and the interior got very wet on the passenger side rear floorboard. I replaced the seats, headliner, and of course the chewed drain tube. Some things to consider.
You could also test each area using a garden hose. Dry everything up.
I'd pull the seat and the carpet up out of the way along with the computer in the passenger footwell. Maybe pull the passenger speaker cover. Have someone poke their head in that area while trying the water test.
So yesterday I did a little investigating. Figured out that the water I thought was coming from the door seal was actually some water is running down the inside of the driver's side A-pillar trim. Not sure where it's coming from yet, but it's nearly certain a hole up near the sunroof.
You mentioned the cowl, and I had checked it a while back when fixed my wipers, though there was no rust that I could see. From what I could tell it might or might not be leaking, although I have no way to see down on the passenger side as there is a brace that blocks access not to mention a nice mouse nest that I can't get reach to vacuum up. When I did my blower motor overhaul a couple months ago, I noticed that the intake bit had some rust around the outside edges. I just cleaned it up a little and gave it a coat of rust inhibitor and called it a day. I have noticed some water drips on the bottom of the blower motor, although if the factory design was literally a hole in the cowl (as I would assume most older cars have), how would that not leak water? Does the cowl have drains that can clog up?
As for testing with a hose, I had already done that although not thoroughly. Didn't dawn on me to remove the carpet and side panels on the passenger side - the drivers side's got all the electronics which deterred me from the concept originally. Thanks KC REPU for that advice; sometimes it's the simple things a person just doesn't think of .
I cleaned the sunroof drain hoses out and did hose testing a while ago with no signs of leakage that I could find. Nonetheless, that may be the issue I'm having with the A-pillar leakage. Either that or there's a rust hole up top. I'll re-check all of this sometime this week if the rain lets up.
Could by any chance the windshield be letting water in? If so, where would it go - into the cowl or the pillars?
It very well could be a "A" pillar behind the windshield. Pull the A pillar trim on the inside. Easy enough to test. Don't pull the windshield trim on the outside unless you have validated the window/seal is the issue. The exterior windshield trim clips will break.
Well now I feel dumb. Looks like I didn't treat the blower intake area as I had thought I did... Here's the damage before further investigation:
Here's it after some jabbing, cleaning, and rust treatment:
So many holes! Guess that answers the majority of my passenger side lake origin. I used some construction adhesive for the final patch along with some Plexi as reinforcement for the large holes. Here's the final product:
Dang, I hate it when I didn't actually do something that I thought I did. At least it's fixed now, and It'll get tested this weekend with the forecasted rain.
Now then, not all the leaks are solved yet. I'm still getting water from inside both A-pillars. I looked at the sunroof area and I can't see any holes. Obviously there are some somewhere (perhaps the old and failing screw seals), but how do the mounts for the sunroof seal? They look like their just slots in the roof with hardware inside. Is there any seal inside of that that might have broken down? Is it worth taking them apart? I don't want to mess up a seal that I won't be able to replace or fix.
I'll be sure to update after we get some good rain whether or not the sealing worked.
But I've gotta say, you do good work under the circumstances.
Thanks. I must say, it's not the most comfortable position to work in for a few hours. The construction adhesive is what made it not too bad (that stuff is pretty handy), the worst was just cleaning and prepping it.
Originally Posted by tommyeflight89
Is this view looking up under the dash with the blower motor assembly removed?
Yep, indeed it is. Also, removing the blower is pretty quick if you want to check yours. Just three 10mm nuts, the harness, and the main duct (depending on if you have AC; I don't). One is on the firewall and the other two are up top by the glove box and can be reached with an extension.
Glad you found the leak. That's an area I learned to suspect for leaks after spending hours tearing apart an 84 SE to find the leak. Its not fun to repair as the dash, wiring harness, and evaporator core and blower motor should be pulled to weld a new section in should you decide to go that route.
Well I guess it's 'bout time for an update. We got some good rain today and couple days back, and I am happy to say that we are nearly leak free. I believe I had said before that water was coming from the A-pillars and that then lead me to the sunroof as y'all suggested. And after some poking around...
Sure as heck, more holes.
A quick rust treatment and patch job later:
Now they sure aren't lookers, but this car is already fairly rough (looking to do a full body resto further down the road). Side note, I again used plexi for the larger holes. For the time being the patches will do the job, and honestly, if someone can look through the tinted glass sunroof and spot those, props to them. And of course you'll see a little through the panel gap, but hey, function over form (for now at least) .
Now the leak report is quite good. No noticeable leaks on the passenger side, and both sides didn't have any water in the pillars. Unfortunately I've still got water coming from under the drivers side dash which will be fun to deal with. Might investigate that this coming weekend.
On a different note, I'm about to attempt the FD alt swap, parts are on their way, so wish me luck. Pretty sure I've got all the bits figured out thanks to the great documentation on this forum and others. My current alt's bearings are loud enough to be heard over my car while cruising so... ya could say it's time for some new parts . Plus the idle charging issues, oh my they are bad with accessories on. I'll go ahead and momentarily hijack my own thread to update y'all on it when I get around to it - no use in making a new thread for just one or two posts.
Anyways, thanks for the pointers and I'll be around
I did the FD alternator swap... went for a modified 200 amp alternator, off of eBay. works awesome & wasn't too much difficulty with the help of a forum member that basically walked me through the modification... biggest thing is You will need to add a diode from the alt to the main harness to block a bit if electricity leakage due to differences in the wiring harness's between an FB an FD.. I think the diode goes on the upper of the two terminals on the left side of the alternator (orientation when installed) ... hope this helps .... OR You may already know all of this...LOL..
Dang, 200 amps? Wow. Anyways, thank you, and actually I'll be doing the swap tomorrow. You wouldn't believe how many threads I've read on the swap - I have to say it's a topic that doesn't seem to have one thread that quickly and fully answers everything (maybe I should make one after I'm done ). Yesterday the alternator arrived, and the Banzai dual pulley kit + alt bracket came today. The new alt connector is coming sometime tomorrow. As for the swap, instead of using the diode approach I've decided to go with a relay. You can achieve the same effect either way, I'm just more familiar with relays. I have an idea on simplifying the wiring for the relay, but I'll let y'all know it after I do some probing with the multi-meter. I'll update tomorrow with the progress and I'll also probably take a crack at the drivers side dash leak while I'm at it.
Well the alternator is installed... Somehow the belts in the kit were one size too small (and yes I realize that there are two different belt options when ordering). I have no clue though how the proper year belts were short. Is it even possible to have an '89 - '91 water pump housing on a 12A, or was I just sent the wrong belts? If so, is there an easy way to distinguish between the two housings? Regardless, finding a store with two belts in stock proved fruitless - I ended up having to pick each from a different store. After that was all figured out it went pretty smoothly, but I'd really like to know whether it was my ignorance or their bad for the belts being too small. Great kit otherwise though . With the "required" air pump delete, I took the opportunity to finish my already partial rats nest delete. All I've got now is the PCV and my redone (direct from spacer plate) vacuum advance. I also re-did the engine harness, so now I don't have any plugs that aren't in use.
However, there are of course a couple issues:
1. I need to re-tune the carb again. It seems like my "fixed" vacuum pot in the ACV was leaking and creating a vacuum leak at idle. Easy fix, just ran out of daylight.
2. I'm reading 15.2 volts at the battery while at idle. I haven't had time yet to check around with the multi-meter, but I'm assuming that my sense line is providing a low voltage reading.
3. My tach at idle is bouncing up and down inconsistently (not with engine rpm). I'm gonna bet that when I fix my over-volt issues that this will subside, but if anyone knows what might be causing this, throw it on out here.
I didn't have a chance to look into the leak yesterday so that might still happen today, and I also have some new front brake lines I need to install. Anyways, I'll have a chance to work on it again later today and I'll update then if I find anything.
Well it looks like I was sent the wrong belts then. My water pump is rusty :/ so that answers that question. I'll contact Banzai sometime after the holiday.
I didn't have a chance to check the leak today - there are too many issues after my alt swap that I need to solve. So many, or at least so confusing, that I think they warrant a separate thread. I did, however, fix the over-voltage issue. It ended up that my sense wire which I used to both trigger the relay any power the sense line wasn't showing full voltage after running through the entire harness and all. I have since converted the old BW line to the relay trigger only, and have run a new lead from the fuse block to the relay for sense. Showing a constant 14.3 volts at idle and up. Lights go up and down faster than I've ever seen before too
I'll update whenever I have time to look for leaks again.
Banzai sent the correct length belts with the kit they sent you. Consider the fact that the Fd alternator case is larger in diameter than a Fb,FC. That puts the armature,shaft,pulley a further distance away from the centerline dimension of installed FB or FC alternator and why the supplied belts are "too short".
Now I would just like to say the kit is very well done, but the kit I purchased is specifically for the FD alternator; '92 and on. As such, this was the kit that came with the 17mm pulley bore, rather than the 15mm for the FC or FB/SA. I would assume in that case, the belts would be chosen to fit the FD alt's specs and such. If there is some possibility other than simply the belts being too small, please let me know. I honestly feel that the chance a mistake was made on Banzai's end is extremely low, and as such I would like to be certain before I go claiming anything. Regardless, I am pleased with the kit, and solving the mystery belt issue will make it even better.
Last edited by Benjamin4456; 11-10-18 at 09:56 PM.
As did i,i had same issue with the too short belts and had to source correct ones and have with every FD install i've done. When SKYDRIFTER350 was planning his upgrade i recommended the Banzai kit and advised him of the belt"issue" and gave him the #s for correct belt length.
While the kit is somewhat pricey for what you get and the belts being too short and having to source your own is understood,i feel the quality of the machining of the alt pulley and overall quality of bracket and hardware is top notch.
For our niche cars,there are very few suppliers of good quality upgrade parts that will bolt on with no massaging of parts.
I believe i'd contacted the vendor on this,don't recall the outcome as it was long ago,but $10 for pair of correct length belts is not a big deal to allow me to complete the job and return vehicle to customer in timely manner.
I will purchase another if//when i need one and will revisit the belt issue with the supplier,whatever the outcome i'll still continue to use the product. I have extra belts for stock applications now,so there's that.
I understand your wish to get everything you paid for and that is your right to pursue,just letting you know you are not the only one to have this happen to you.
Well that's good to know. Dang, 10 bucks for a pair of belts? Out of the four shops I went to, one, none of them had two belts in stock and two, the lowest price was 21.99 PER each belt. I guess I'm just little frustrated that I had to pay 43.98 after I had just paid a good chunk of change for the kit - half of which was belts. Being that I only have the one 7, I'll probably never use those belts in a "stock" application, or at least no time soon. Looks like I'll still try and contact them after the holiday. Great kit though, the fit and finish really seems solid and like it'll last a good long time.
Just a note: I think the belts that fit were a ...20. The kit included ...15's.
I get jobber price at local parts stores i deal with which helps and they let me go in the back to size up belt length i need as there's no application to look up for a part #.
Update time... We've gotten some rain recently and while I will say there is less water, there is definitely still a major leak. Passenger side is the best, although there is still a puddle in the floor. It seems like the water is coming in through the sunroof still as while driving recently, I have had the pleasure of being dripped on from the area that the sunroof visor parts with the headliner. Here's a picture of what it looks like under the headliner:
You could say the roof is a little rusty... I decided that instead of potentially compromising the entire sunroof area (note that the rest of the surround is not nearly as bad) I would take a shot at sealing it from the top. Figured that the Plasti Dip I had lying around might do the trick and would peel up easy if it failed so I gave it a try:
I brushed on a good four coats or so and then cleaned up the gasket. I tested a small area on the gasket and the Dip adhered well, so I figured I would seal the gasket to the surrounding area. It worked pretty well, except that the Dip started to peel away from the drain holes as it dried. I'm going to inspect it today to see if more has removed itself, but otherwise I feel like the water is getting in some other way.
My guess now is that one, or both, of the front drain tubes are compromised, or it's leaking in through the sunroof front mounts. I'm trying to avoid pulling the headliner but perhaps it's gonna be necessary. Lot's of water in the drivers side and it's to the point that my heater/defog has no chance of keeping up.
I'll do some investigating today and update with whatever I find. Does anyone know how the front sunroof mounts seal? They seem like holes in the body, so I'd figure they have some sort of internal blockage to prevent water from getting further in.
Last edited by Benjamin4456; 11-28-18 at 10:06 AM.
Well it's been a few weeks and I have some news. For one, the leak is worse than I thought - better than I started with, but still pretty bad. The entire passenger side wall (by the seat) is regularly soaked with water and now my passenger belt is damp on a daily basis. For a while now I've been aware that something is amiss with the passenger rear sunroof drain as when I originally went to clean it out many months ago, it seemed like it had been plugged by something metallic. To go with that, no water has ever drained form it that I can tell, so it's common to see standing water in that corner. When I said that the drivers side was better than the passenger... not so much the case anymore. I had a massive puddle last time I checked whereas the drivers side is just a little damp. No water from the heater area anymore though.
So here's the jist. The car is gonna be down for a little, while I install my new headlight bushings, channel seals, and do my DLIDFIS mod with the dizzy swap. I figured that it's high time I pull the headliner to properly address the issue (well maybe not properly, but I'd say some more construction adhesive will do the trick if the holes aren't massive. And of course I'll treat the rust). I've been doing some looking for info on removing the headliner intact, but so far have not come across anyone doing it on an SA with a sunroof - sounds like it's got the bow style supports. Any advice for removing it and then reinstalling it? I started messing with it already, but I was worried I'd break something so I haven't gone too far. I'm mostly concerned about the windshield area and the sunroof surround.
Honestly I'm done with not being able to see without wiping down my windows every so often; thanks Oregon... So I suppose I'm looking for tips, tricks, and some advice on going about sealing it up. Anything helps
10-29-18, 01:25 PM
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The construction adhesive is what made it not too bad (that stuff is pretty handy), the worst was just cleaning and prepping it.
