mjm4jc

Does anyone know what the total timing is for the SE? I'm not talking about the timing that we set with a timing light by turning the distributor. I'm talking about "total ignition timing," which is a pre-set number from the factory. I didn't see it in the FSM.

Mike

mjm4jc

Does the 2GCDFIS have anything to do with my getting an inaccurate reading with the timing light?

Mike

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

Can't answer the 1st one because I never checked.

The 2GCDFIS has nothing to do with timing.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

timing is in the FSM. its in section 5 the engine electrical section. advance is given in 2 charts in DISTRIBUTOR degrees, so to get advance at the engine you double it, because the dizzy turns @50% of engine speed.

at full throttle you have full mechanical and no vacuum advance

4portgsl

I dont know what it is, but you can check it with a timing light if your crank pulley has degree marks. Rev the engine with the all the advance components connected and see how far it travels.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

Iirc, total mechanical timing is set at 24L, 16T

mjm4jc

Scott, are you sure about the trailing figure? It just doesn't sound right. Your quote is for a 13B right?

Mike

mjm4jc

I have an SE with the 2GCDFIS. I'm trying to set the timing today with the timing light and noticed some weird things. First, the leading mark is there, then it's gone. Second, when I set the trailing, the leading moves. So I go back and set the leading to make sure it right. I set it dead-on. Now I go to set the trailing again, and, sure enough, when I go back to re-check the leading, it moved. I kept go back and forth with the L & T but couldn't get either one where it should be cuz each would change according to the setting of the other. I know that if you turn the dizzy, it changes both, but I did not suspect that changing the trailing would affect the leading.

And yes, I know to put the timing light pick-up on the leading wire for leading and the trailing wire for trailing. I also made sure that none of the wires were close or touching each other. I also noticed that this problem occurs when the car is really warmed up. And recommendations?

Mike

Kentetsu

Maybe a stupid question, but are the plug wires routed correctly? Also, did you disable the vacuum advance? What's the condition of the cap/rotor?

I don't believe that adjusting the trailing should have any effect on the leading...

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

You might want to check your pickup coil plates, & make sure they're not stuck together or something, or the primary coil plate hasn't become loose from the dizzy housing somehow (screw missing, perhaps?).

I'd be more suspicious of wiring, though.

mjm4jc

I have the leading wires going directly from the 2gen coil to the leading plugs, and the trailing plug wires going to L1 and L2 on the cap. The cap and rotor are new. I'm going to look at it closely to see if anything appears abnormal. What about the weights? Is there anything that needs to be lubed that may be getting hung up?

Stay tuned----I'll let you know what I find.

Thanks

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

how are you adjusting the leading?

mjm4jc

By turning the dizzy. How else would I do it?

mjm4jc

I didn't think I had to disconnect the vac advance, since it really doesn't work at idle.

mjm4jc

I took the cap and rotor off to see if anything looked unusual. I also did a couple of checks. First, I put a vacuum hose directly on the trailing diaphragm and sucked pretty hard and it only moved the advance a little bit. It also didn't seem to hold the suction. There may be a leak in the diaphragm. Secondly, the leading advance mechanism seemed to be stiff, so I lubed it up a bit. But with suction to it, it didn't hardly move at all. Put it this way, when I applied vacuum to both sides, both of them did not move even close to how far it could move considering the long rod that comes out of the diaphragms. If I move the trailing advance by hand, it moves pretty far, but with vacuum, very little. I was going to do some more checks, but it's really cold outside (30), and I already let my coal stove die out.

Kentetsu

Okay, you're running your trailing plugs off the dizzy by plugging in to the Leading on the cap. Did you remember to change the coil wire over from trailing to leading as well?

mjm4jc

Yep. Thanks for asking though, as that can be easily overlooked. I also know that the pickup on the timing light is good, cuz when I put it on the trailing, it shows the red mark crystal clear.

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

Mike,

Few questions:

- what are the color of your connectors going to each ignitor? The blue one should be plugged into the ignitor facing the alt. The one facing the radiator is a white plug. If for some reason the plugs are the same color (maybe someone replace a connector), tell me the wire colors going to each ignitor. One should be BY & YG the other should be BY & YL.

- what color wires are going to your trailing coil?

It seems to me that maybe your wires are crossed at some point and you are firing leading off of the trailing signal and visa versa. Another possibility is something is wrong in the pickup/advance mechanism.

For the 2nd gen coil, sometimes the timing light will try to pickup L2 signal instead of L1. That is why the timing mark may disappear. I found it best to make sure that L1 on the coil really goes to L1 and time off of that. Place the pickup for the light close to the coil.

Also try running the car in the dark and look for spark leakage at the coils/near sparkplug wire boots. you may have a cracked coil or poor connections causing electrical noise and weakens the signal through the plug wire.

When adjusting trailing (usually never needs to be done), you are adjusting moving the trailing vac pot (the longer one with the additional set of screws) in/out, correct? It should be very sensitive with only a light tap to adjust it.

If everything is set correctly, you do not have to disable vac advance to set the timing. However, if your idle is a little high and/or not fully warmed up, the vac advance can be active. Try to unplug the green solenoid connector and see if you get something different or try to unplug the vac advance lines at the dizzy.

Good luck.

Kent

Kentetsu

That's kind of what I was angling toward, but you have phrased it much better than me Kent.

I actually ended up (somehow) with my ignition fubar'd like that a couple of years ago. Leading and trailing swapped around for I don't know how long. Sure made it tough trying to get the timing right. lol. I was so amazed when I realized what was actually happening, and still haven't figured out when/how I managed to get them reversed. Probably during all the TT testing we were doing, because I think I reinstalled the ignition system a dozen times that year.

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

Never ceases to amaze me, how messed up the ignition on these cars can get, and yet they still run. Not well, but run.

Swapped plug wires? Still runs.
Swapped leading and trailing ignitions? Still runs.
Complete failure of the trailing system? Still runs (SA's at least).
Complete failure of the leading system? Sometimes still runs.
Flywheel (and therefore timing references) off 90 degrees? Still runs.

Mind-boggling.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

yep, we joke as long as there is spark and fuel in there, it doesnt matter where, it'll run

mjm4jc

Kent,

Here what I found:

The ignitors are correct----blue connector facing alt, white facing rad. The wires on the ignitors are: Blue ignitor----black and yellow; yellow and green. White ignitor----blue and yellow; black and yellow.

Trailing coil: positive side----black and yellow. Negative side----one balck wire and one yellow/green wire.


2Gen coil-----I didn't think it mattered where L1 and L2 went. I didn't see any markings on the 2gen coil for L1, L2.


I'm just waiting for the weather to get above 50, so I can go out in the garage and mess around some more. I'll keep you all posted. Thanks for all the help so far.

mjm4jc

Today I disconnected the 2GCDFIS and went back to stock, just to see if there was any difference. The only difference I noticed was that with the stock leading coil, I was able to see the leading timing mark all the time----no disappearing acts.
But the car pretty much ran the same. It's running real rich, stumbling, rough idle, and stumbles terribly if I up the RPM's by hand. I checked fuel pressure, and it was good. Tomorrow, I want to check fuel volume, as well as check fuel pressure again, only this time with the pressure reg vac hose disconnected like the FSM says. The car ran much better when I had a huge vacuum leak last week.

I thought that the trailing might not be working, but when I disconnected the trailing ignitor, the car did stumble noticeably. When I disconnected the leading ignitor, it died-----as it should. I still believe there is something not right in the dizzy. I was able to get a .35 feeler gauge in the pickup coils, which is the maximum I believe, but I don't think that the pickups are causing the problem. Any other ideas?

Another thing I think I need to look at is the AFM. Even though it moves freely, it just seems like the engine is not getting the air it needs. I also checked for vac leaks again, and didn't find any. I would appreciate any further suggestions.

Mike

Hyper4mance2k

iTrader: (40)

DO NOT SET YOUR TIMING WITH VACUUM ADVANCE HOOKED UP!! lol
http://www.yawpower.com/pultime.html
FYI 12a pully and 84-85 13b pullies are marked TDC leading and 20*atdc trailing.
post 85 13b pullies are marked 5*ATDC leading and 20*ATDC trailing.

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

Unless your setup is completely stock.

Seeing as the FSM states to set timing with engine warm, at idle, with all hoses in place.