I don't think they will be too far from stock. But we'll see.

 

Good reading material on brakes here -> http://scirocco.dyndns.org/faq/brake...n/pfpage1.html
grab a drink!

"Ladies and gentlemen, this is what stops the car--not the brake pads, not the rotors, not the cool stainless steel brake lines. It's the road reacting against the tire. "

 

Got the brakes on and tested them on the road course at the revolution! Wow! Zero fade, just smooth braking Even under very heavy braking from 105 to 50. I ran 6 hot laps in a row with no hint of fade.

 

They certainly look impressive! Am I correct in thinking there is no change in offset, by way of the custom hubs?

I wonder if they ship to Australia...

 

Good question, I had to use a spacer to bring the offset to the correct setting. The spacer was about 1/4 of a inch thick. The hubs come with extra long studs so the spacer was not a problem.

 

Here are some current pictures:

 

Absolutely correct. Bigger brakes will not help your 60 - 0 times or your 60 - 0 distances one bit. In fact, they will probably hurt it a tiny bit since they weigh more, plus they add inertia to the rotating assembly. Hate to burst any bubbles, but it's true. The reason to get big brakes is to either a) make your car look better, b) increase fade resistance, or c) improve brake "feel". If you don't believe us, here's the test: Take your car up to 60 mph on a vacant road or stretch of highway and stomp on the brakes hard. If your tires lock up, you have enough brake torque to overcome the friction between the tires and the road. Once you have this much braking power, anything extra won't give you any advantage. Think about this for a second the next time you read some BS article about somebody's big brake kit decreasing stopping distance by 20%! You won't stop quicker, you won't get more chicks, your income won't increase . . . If you take this test and you can't lock up your brakes, you have a problem with your brakes, and you should get them fixed.

The increase of fade resistance is the real performance benefit, and this means you will be able to stop at the verge of lockup time and time again without having to use increasing pedal pressure to compensate for the brakes heating up to the point where they don't work as well. This falling off of brake performance is called "fade". When taken to an extreme, fade can cause you to lose virtually all stopping power. On a stock car, with stock brakes, perceptible fade will only occur after the first stop 60 - 0.

If you want to go the cheap route and don't care about looks, you can increase your braking system's fade resistance by an amazing amount by using high temp brake pads, high temp brake fluid, and ducting air to the inner part of the rotor. These are tricks every road racer knows, and they work amazingly well.

Hey, I don't knock anybody for upgrading their brake system. I'll probably upgrade my own fairly soon, but be realistic about the benefits vs. a stock system.

 

I have no problems with my teeny tiny 12A brakes, either with fade or lack of braking power...

Tooling along at "just over" the speed limit, sharp turn coming up (or a "right square" ) and at the last minute, continue accelerating, then just after the last minute WHOOOOMPH, feel all the weight transfer onto the fronts, zipzipzip and we're in 2nd gear, still braking hard turn into the corner, feel all the load go onto the left front tire, start accelerating and the slight oversteer turns into slight understeer, throttle down, feeling the G forces rotating rearwards, and we're off again...

Brakes rule. The beauty of tuning a car to understeer is that it forces you (allows you!) to brake harder, and deeper into a corner, so you learn to brake *really* late and use that weight transfer to get the car around the corner instead of just using a big fat rear stabilizer to unsettle the rear end. And with a relatively soft rear suspension, you can *accelerate* sooner since the rear end has so much more grippage.

Okay there is one problem, I go through brake pads *very* quickly, I think I have less than 10k on the latest set. Maybe I need to take the big brake plunge as well

 

WOOT!!!! great things! how much they run u again ???

 

Maybe this is one of the most important advantages of big brakes -- with the stock brake setup, we have to replace the whole brake/hub assembly when the rotors get too thin. If you're running Hawk pads like I do, that happens fairly often. This is both expensive and a PITA.

With any of the big brake kits, you can buy an off-the-shelf rotor from Wilwood or others for a lot less money, and make a swap without having to change out wheel bearings & seals.

 

Might as well count on $1500.00

 

The Hubs are lighter than stock so there is less weight to get moving. Also you can replace bearings, wheel studs and grease seals without taking off the caliper

 

Don't forget:

d) Better value for consumables. "Standard" race parts typically cost less or last longer for the same price as model-specific parts. I pay about the same price for pads, but get more than twice the material. Rotors may be more or less expensive than stock depending on the setup, but "big brake" rotors usually last a lot longer. You spend less time replacing parts if everything lasts longer, too.

e) Access to a wider variety of pads. Some companies make pads in some compounds for Mazda calipers. Most companies make pads in most of their compounds for "standard" calipers (Outlaw, Wilwood, Brembo, AP, etc.). You typically have a lot more choices with "big brake" calipers.

f) Sometimes bigger brakes weigh less than the stock parts they replace. I suspect the rotational inertia of my big brakes is the same or greater than the stock brakes, but the static weights are ~2 lbs lighter per side in front, and >5 lbs lighter per side in the rear.

-Max

 

WOW!Now this is something i`am interested in!

Only problem is: Wont fit into my rims....
Lots of good reading material here.

Karis

 

Great article!!

 

Guys:
I've researched a few brake options for the 1st gen, and to comment directly on the Sevens-Only kit; I can say that ALMOST all non-SE offset 15" wheels will not fit, and I doubt that most SE offset 15"s will fit. A 16"+ wheel is amost a necessity to get these to bolt-on without issues. Another concern I had with the 7s Only kit is the fact that the OUTALW calipers seemed to be more biased towards the race side of things then the street side of things (no dust caps, rattle springs, etc...) This means that special attention and monitoring should be given to the calipers with extended use. Race calipers tend to be inspected quite regulary, and to this end manufactured with this in mind. Hopefully this will not be the case with this kit, but it's just a concern that I had for use on a street car. Maybe Mark, and Paul can give us an update and status, as they start to use them more regulary and over an extended period of time.

Thanks,

-Bern

P.S. with all of these hot 1st gens, who's cominng to sevenstock-7?

 

I'll sure keep everyone up to date as far as problems. So for not a thing, not even a squeak! And I'm running Hawk HPS pads

Yes, the offset thing I did't see coming. The offset is about 1/4in off.

 

Which is why I plan on making my own big brake setup, again using commonly available circle track parts ($30 rotors, $40 calipers...) Should fit under 15's no problem. But it'd be nice if it could fit under 14" wheels since oddly enough 14" rally tires are easier to find than 13" or 15" when you're hunting for cheap/free used ones. And then it's just a matter of making some 14" aluminum wheels in 4x110.

Only thing with me is, I work *so* hard to get a good brake pedal. My pedal is rock hard and right up there. I don't have much right ankle motion so this is critical for me unless I LFB and downshift clutchless! (Something I had to do with my Subaru with its characteristic awful pedal) When you go with larger caliper bores, you also need to go to a larger master cylinder bore to compensate.

 

I would also like to note that Napa sells complete hubbed rotors for $16.95 each for all fb's inluding SE models. This gets rid of the problem in price of replacing hubbed rotors, but I would still love to have big brakes.
Paul, I checked your brakes out at the revolution and you have my compliments!!! WOW!!!!

 

Good to know the Seven's only kit is working out.

I gave in and ordered CP Racing's kit, to use the standard TII brakes.

 

Oh man, I thought it was just me. I was about to get my glasses...and then I remembered, I don't wear glasses.

 

Their website says it's more like $75 each.

 

Yes, I think that's more like it. I would buy a pile of them if they where that cheap.

 

Did you get the 4 lug or 5 lug version?
Let us know how it works out next spring when they send them out.....

 

PaulAber PM'd ya