sweetege

Like the title says I know search and I found the sticky but after reading 7 of the 18 pages I never found what I was looking for. I think I finally figured out that I want to throw a turbo motor in my 7, it will be either a 13B-RE or just an S5 T11 motor, I found lots on E-bay and of course they are all J-spec motors, Everybody says they basically swap right in, is that true? can I use the same mounts without changing the front plate or the tranny mounts? Also the drive shaft would have to be different so where would I get a custom shaft? They all come with the tranny and ecu and all those other goodies so I could just throw those in there also. Please don't get mad and say search next time you big strong mods (rx7doctor) hehe

Thanks in advance, Michael

sweetege

Man I tell ya, you give me long enough and I will answer my own questions, ok so come Monday I will be ordering a turbo engine off ebay I will also have to find a shop that will do my driveshaft but that will not be to hard Right now I have solid motor and tranny mounts on my car and love them, so even if I have to weld the tranny in random spots and the same with the engine it will get in there so I guess my question now will be...
If I get an S5 TII motor can I also use it's computer and just swap it over also? could I take the emissions stuff off? I read a post that said they are smarter and do not like that, is this true? if I got a megasquirt could I take it down to a bare engine with no emissions crap and then tune it?
Thanks

sweetege

Anybody? I need to know if I can use the stock computer without the emissions crap or would I have to get a megasquirt?

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

The stock TII ecu and wiring, yes, there is a writeup in the archives. As for eliminating emmisions, you'll find more info in the 2nd gen section.

If you intall a TII tranny, then you will need a custom driveshaft made using the TIIoutput end, 3" tubing preferably and an end to mate to the diff flange.

Keep searchjing, you're getting there.

P_Lav

to swap to a TII on a 12a car you need a GSL-SE front cover if your gonna go to a FMOC, GSL-SE oil pan, new tranny cross mount (can be easily made), TII fuel pump, or better aftermarket fuel pump with a pressure reg. custom drive shaft, you need to either notch the tunnel for your TII trans to fit, or modify the tailshaft housing. You can use the 12A front cover if your going to run premix, but it's better to have the FMOC anyway, you also need to drill and tap an oil return line for the turbo into the front cover, or oil pan. Then after that the ECU is up to you. I'm not posistive for the ignition side, but you may want to swap to TII spec for a better spark.

EDIT:also a s5 takes a bit more work than an s4, which is pretty much drop in, with the front cover, etc. Its easy just to drop in the s4, and then if you want swap out the s4 turbo for the s5.

sweetege

Well one that I was looking at already had the FMOC with it, so could I not just mount that up? I got a place for the driveshaft, but will the stock shifter place fit with the TII Tranny? And how would I need to notch the tunnel, what do you mean by that?

THANKS

P_Lav

In the achieve find the thread "chronicals of a turbo first gen" it has everything you will ever need to know about doing a TII swap. If you use your old 12A front cover your FMOC will not bolt up (12A's have a beehive cooler), so you will need a GSL-SE front cover, cuase a TII front cover does not have the correct engine mounting points. And by notching the tunnel involves removing material from the transmission tunnel on the body of the car so the TII transmission will fit, becuase the tail shaft housing is too tall. Also the stock shifter location is moved back a few inches without modifying the tailshaft, if you do tho, the location is almost spot on. I'd suggest doing alot of reading here on the forum, I haven't done the swap myself, I would like to, but I don't have a job anymore to pay for this kinda stuff. I just know all of this for reading for 6+ hours on all of the threads on here. Its a pretty easy swap, but I haven't even seen everything else. Anouther thing to be conserned with is the wiring harness. If you can, search e-bay for a seperate one un-cut, it will save you hours, most JDM engine dealers cut the harnesses to get it out faster.

sweetege

The ones I am looking at have Un-Cut harnesses, so you are saying I need the se front cover so that the mounts will line up, so I guess there would be no way of ghetto welding an extension to hold it on. I will read that thread all the way through this time then come back to ask questions

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

The reason that it is recommend to use the SE front cover is that you can use the Se OMP or 86-88 OMP that has 4 lines. The OMP on the 12a have only 2 lines on them. There are provisions for 4 lines on the 13B FI engines. The front mounds are the same for the 12a and 13B engines. The front crossmember is what makes the 13b engine a direct bolt in for alignment. But modifying the existing mound as stated in the Archived thread does the job or you can buy the modified one from Mazdatrix.

On a different note. Do some research on the Ebay company that you decide to buy from. Alot of members have had trouble with those JDM engines. Do a search in the Good guy/Bad guy section of the forum.

sweetege

I will do that I am going to buy a beater for now just to get me through the winter, and in the meantime start buying parts, I could get this done in a week but I never have liked just throwing things together and hope they work with lots of welds so it will be a winter project, now my question is if I chose to run premix, is that still as good as good oil on the engine? Plus is there any way to run a closed loop oil system that basically just cools the turbo? or would I have to use a seperate oil cooler and pump and everything?
Thanks

steve84GS TII

Just to clear up a few things......

1.The 12A or 13B front cover will bolt up to a TII engine and allow simple mounting into a 1st gen.With either,the GSL-SE oilpan must be used.

2.The air/oil cooler is a must with a TII engine,since its working harder and the oil must now cool a redhot turbo as well.The front mounted air/oil cooler will plumb in regardless of if you use a 12A or 13B front cover

3.Premix is a viable alternative,although the stock oilmetering system is reliable,proven and less hassel.The S4 TII OMP will bolt right up to a GSL-SE front cover,not to a 12A front cover.If your running an S5 engine with the S5 ECU,then you must modify a GSL-SE front cover to accept the larger electronic S5 OMP.The only alternative when running the stock S5 ECU is to premix and lay the OMP off to the side of the engine bay,still plugged into the wiring harness.This will keep the S5 ECU from going into "limp mode".Although this work,its hardly professional or tidy,and theres no telling how long the OMP will survive without lubricant,as the internal parts will still be moving in tune with the ECU's commands.

4.Any 2nd gen trans will go into the 1st gen,but the shifter will be too far back.You can cut up the sheetmetal or relocate the shifter forward with a 1st gen shift tower and a couple hours work.Its not hard at all,and the trans will fit like stock.

5.A TII trans requires a custom driveline to be built.The front spline,tube length and rear flange dimensions will be needed for the shop to fab up a shaft.For a dirveline shop,this is a simple task and it should cost about 200 bucks.A small price to pay for a large,rebuildable,greasable driveline that can take the power you put into it.

6.J-spec engine wiring harness' are a pain in the butt to use in US spec cars because they are backwards,to fit in righthand drive cars.it can be done,but youll have to deloom and re-wrap the thing to get them to lay right.Also,I recently discovered that J-spec ECU's dont supply a signal for the check engine light system on the S5 engines.This is a pain since it makes engine diagnostics much harder,and it will prevent you from being fully smog compliant if your going for a legal swap.

7. S5 engines, as well as S4's can have most of their smog gear stripped off with little problem.There is little to no power gains from it,its mostly just for looks.The S5 has a smarter ECU and if you do remove the smog gear,your going to be looking at a lit check engine light for eternity...as well as fishing through 20-30 trouble codes,looking for the one that matters,should an important problem arise.

8.If you choose to run an S5 engine with the stock ECU,its a great setup......but it does requires some specefic attention and choices,as I have alluded to.If you get stuck,look me up or search for past threads,its all been covered before.

Steve

1stgenNutt

iTrader: (3)

ok cant you take the tailshaft off the rear of the gsl or gs tranny and put on the s5 transmission...

steve84GS TII

You can likely mix and match parts within the TypeM non-turbo boxes,Ive never bothered to mess with them really.They all tend to be somewhat weak,especially when compared to the TII box.
If your doing a TII swap,I cant recommend anything but the ribcase TypeR tranny.With a TII swap,your going to be doing some extensive work and spending some cash......A custom driveline is a small expenditure and it should be considered mandatory when doubling or tripling the stock HP.

1stGenZen

I read somewhere that you cannot swap tailshaft housings over to the S5 tranny because the rear of the S5 tranny is larger because of the internals.

steve84GS TII

I dont see any reason to want to retain the 1st gen driveline anyways.
They are woefully small,non-serviceable and at best now 20+ years old.

1stGenZen

Sorry, I was just replying to 1stgenNutts post.

sweetege

Man I am copying all this and pasting into word on my computer You guys rule