worlord

Does anyone have a supercharger in their 1st gen?
Do they even make such a thing?
If anyone does, how much did the whole progect cost you?

Project84

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=82404

http://www.atkinsrotary.com/superQA.htm

do a on the word "supercharger". Lots of info in here about them. I plan to run one

rollin82

i would like to run one to but watch out ...most guys in here would slit your throat for talking about anthing rather then a turbo haha

but ya your lookin at anywher from 2500 to 3000 dependin on the amoutn of boost ya want....

id suggest the 7 inch charger "supposed" to produce 15 pounds of boost

riffraff

looks like a good setup. and from what i know, atkins know there ****, and is reliable. but i am not sure about the valitity of the numbers that they claim... either way, i am sure tha it would be an awsome setup.. i was thinking about if for a while.. but now i have other ideas in mind............ (to become reality soon.. i hope)

Project84

Yeah, I plan on going with the 7" blower since I got a good TII engine to use it on. It goes for $2,395.00 from atkins rotary. I've been bouncing this idea around in here for a while, and for the most part, people don't really resent a supercharger. I had a poll going to see how many people would choose a SC or a turbo. Click here to check it out and see the results. Its in the archive.

riffraff

i think that it is more of a matter that more people have gone the turbo route than superchager . and so there is more information and involvement on the turbo setups...

i_piss_on_hondas

You got to look at the price... you going to make more hp with a hp then a turbo but think about it... how bad *** of a turbo setup could you make with 3k??? a AWSOME setup CAPABLE of over 20lbs of boost... with a supercharger you make your maximum boost when you shift... witha turbo when it spools up all the way you have it all... MUCH more mid range and top end power... and people bitching about turbo lag lets say your turbo FULLY SPOOLS UP AT 3k... below 3k your makeing boost... not a whole lot but as much if not more then a sc... people just bitch about the lag becuase you dont really feel the full effects of the extra are until its spooled... just my buck and a half

riffraff

do superchargers generally make more touque?? and on the street, atleast, tourque makes all the difference.

metalliman

The way I understand it, (and this is a gross generalization), superchargers produce more low end torque, where as turbochargers prodoce more high end horsepower, resulting in a higher maximum horsepower. However, this is just a generalization, I can't stress that enough!

XLR8

iTrader: (52)

I agree with metalliman. It is generally true that turbo's tend to make more topend power and SC's make more torque. I too have thought alot about this route. I emailed Atkins about gains for they never had any posted on their site. 40-50% was the reply. For the money, I would say go for a TII swap, or T12a setup. Turbos are more involved. However, much of what makes turbos better is that the turbine can spin up too 180,000rpm (race turbo's) and a the SC is limited to the rpm of the engine.

I look at it kind of like this;
V8's are generally SCed because they naturally make alot of torque. The SC just builds on that.
Rotarys however, make more power in topend. The turbo builds on that.

Either way, you will have a forced induction rotary car and that my friend,....will be sweet.

Good luck

fatboy7

HP is proportional to trorque *RPM.... boost is boost, its a matter of when and how you get it. Superchargers ar capable of suppling it very quickly, but produce less than an equally priced turbo, they are also about 30% less efficeint, which means you usually can't run as much boost, due to detonation. Now with a good 85%+ effecient intercooler (aftercooler is an equivialant term when talking 'bout superchargers), this inefficiency is less of a limitation, but this adds serious costs to a SC, and makes less sense (ie it adds lag... something most SC people are trying to avoid). All said an done, superchargers make more boost, and therefore more torque in the lower RPM, where turbos either haven't exceeded its boost threshold, or experiences significant lag. In high RPM, the turbo's don't lag as much, almost as little as their SC counterparts, they also produce more boost than their supercharger counterparts, hence more torque in high RPM. they also produce much more HP for this very reason.

This all of course assumes a well designed system. Turbos are harder to optimize, partly because there are so many options of turbine housing A/R's turbine wheels, compressors, etc. where as the SC are more fixed, and can be controled easily with pully size.

A turbo that is too small will produce small boost, but very early, similar to that of a SC, but as RPM increases, so does backpressure that kills pumping effeicency (and causes serious wear and tear on turbo and engine, and increased chance of detonation)

Too large of turbo, and the thing will have a very high boost threshold, and will have lag everywhere in the power band, but will eventually produce mad amounts of boost. There is more room to chose, but that also means there is more rope to hang oneself....

SC are more even, and require less attention to boost spikes, creep, lag and other issues

jr69187

If you want some real good info on this beyond what is here please contact sterling. I have a machined intake , a throttle body, controll unit for efi, and an eaton m 82. But just like turbos allot depends on the size and type of sc. The ones atkins sells are not very effcient but the ones that ford used on the thunder bird super coupe are. How else could they build a v6 sc that eats alive the same year v8 fox body mustang. Stock versus stock. but in order to adapt on of these requires so much work. I toasted a motor and a charger trying to run it suck through a carb. Turn out my year of charger could not sustain fuel in the charger and ate the coating off the lobes and that all went in my motor. So know i have to find another one. Now and i am just gonna run the full efi setup. i just need to finish adapting all the intercooler piping. once that is done i should start bolting it in. so maybe this spring i could sell a complete sc setup for 12a that gives you efi and a very effient sc with a full inter cooler. Price would still be around 3 but i could post some very nice numbers. But sterling knows that most about this idea. i have just been lucky enough to get mine running once.

i_piss_on_hondas

Turbo lag turbo lag turbo lag... the only reason why people notice turbo lag compared to a super charger is your makeing a BUNCH more power when it spools... when your car is lagging IT IS STILL BOOSTING AS MUCH AS A SC IS... its not boosting what you want it to... IE 10 psi... in a turbo you get ALL the boost after it spools... your only getting a little while its spooling... REMEBER THIS IS ALL THERODICAL...lets say your boosting 10 lbs on a motor with a 10k rpm redline... at 1k rpm your makeing 1 lbs of boost... at 2 your makeing 2 so on and so forth... anyone out there with a turbo car with lets say a to4e set your boost at 5lbs and see how long it takes to spool... its instant...

Sterling

You're clearly talking out your ***.

pratch

Sterling, what gave it away? the "THERODICAL"? or perhaps the "STILL BOOSTING AS MUCH AS A SC IS"?

i_piss_on_hondas

Well if I am talking out my *** show me where I am wrong... I never claimed to know everything... I am pretty positive everything I said here was correct... TURBO LAG is where it takes a while for the turbo to spool up.. even though the turbo is not fully spooled its still makeing boost... and considering in the example I was makeing with a 10k redline and 10lbs of boost at 2k rpm the sc is only boosting 2 lbs I would imagine the turbo would be makeing ATLEAST 2lbs of boost at 2k rpm although it hasnt compleatly spooled up yet...

pratch

Sterling, still got that link for the nice fat 15 psi supercharger? Oh wait, it would wreck the hypothetical... er THERODICAL situation our buddy **** just came up with.

REVHED

Sterling's right. You're talking out of your azz.

Positive displacement (or Rootes) style superchargers generally make good if not full boost pressure right off idle. This is because they displace a certain amount of air per revolution regardless of rpm. You can usually get significant boost just by cracking the throttle open at idle.

Turbo's on the other hand, require you to get into the designed rpm range of that particular turbo to make boost. The rpm at which this this happens is dependant on the turbo's A/R and overall sizing/matching of the turbo to the engine.

The basic point is that Rootes style blowers will provide more low rpm grunt than a turbo on the same engine. Top end is a different story though.

BTW, has anyone thought about running a centrifugal blower on a rotary?

Sterling

There's a site kickin 'round about someone who put a Paxton on his 2nd gen. Nothing spectacular. Low boost, low excitement. Suffers from the same old spoolin ****. (centrafugal. )

I **** on Hondas-
I doubt I'll engage in alot of conversation with you simply because it's too much of a pain in my carpal tunnel syndrome havin *** just typing yer ****** name. But as funny as my bro Patch was, I won't make you mad by calling you "****".

I just have this thing with guys that choose names and sigs with the word Honda in them- Like Hondas suck. Well, they happen to make a damn fine car, I think. And if they really did suck, I suspect everyone would'nt be sayin they suck so much.
Monica Lewinski sucks, and I don't see any sigs or names with the fact that she sucks in them.

Anyhoo, there's so much information on the pros and cons of both turbos and superchargers on this board, it becomes funny when someone pukes it all up again. It happens about four five times a year, and then there's this big all out **** fest with the turbo guys screamin about how great their turbos are and how bad superchargers suck. But when we start to whittle away the guys that don't even have ****** turbos, and the guys that are talking about centrafugal superchargers as opposed to roots or some other positive displacement type, as well as the guys who have never even been in a supercharged vehical, well we're left with...
not too ****** many.

If you do some searching (I dunno if they fixed that pesky search engine yet) you'll find some very enlightening information - if you can sift through all the bullshit, flaming, and Honda bashing.
But ya know what? I only start my big "**** You" speach when someone asks specifically about a SUPERCHARGER, and someone who clearly does not know his ****, starts a compare-****-fest between turbos and superchargers.

-Sorry we got off on the wrong foot. We can try to dance again tomorrow.
It's all in fun.

fatboy7

LOL Honestly, I'd love a roots type on my engine to help spool a huge turbo.... hey, but I've got limited resources

AdrenalifeRX7

Boost is Bliss.....I take turbo over s/c any day. If you have been in a high hp turbo car you will know why they are so much better than s/c. So much better man I can't explain it. Turbo is a drug.

Hyper4mance2k

iTrader: (40)

ATKINS IS THE ****!!! the owners son has a fisrt gen with a holley 600 and a charger that passed washington state emmissions!!! they just ran the air pump straight into the cat for the emmissions

pratch

Well, as funny as I was being, I wasn't trying to be derrogatory with my reference to I **** on Hondas as "****" - it was sheer laziness on my part.

Staunch ignorance is the enemy of knowledge: unless you know why you believe something, defending it will only serve to close your mind.

Majority rule isn't always the best way to figure out what's best for any given situation. I use a Mac, drive a rotary and neither of them are what the general populace use...

Rx7carl

Hey....to that Sterling guy, why dont you just put a turbo on your car instead of that silly supercharger????????




(These threads should be in the lounge, they're just too entertaining)

Sterling

pratch don't even bother to get them to see even the remotest glimse of "The Light".
The only light these guys'll ever see is the white one when they die.
...Oh hell- here I go again...

You people are really moronic, you know that? A supercharger to spool up a turbo. reeeeally.
"Boost is bliss."- What- You can't get boost w/ an SC? Yep-yer another moron.

Use yer ****** heads, morons! Overdrive a big enough SC for your application in a blowthru configuration with an internal vacuum operated bypass, intercooler and water injection. Voila- bigtime boost all the way up, and the the SC runs in a vaccum state at cruise, requiring very little HP to turn. At acceleration- anywhere in the revs-, you're boosted to 20 psi.
The very fact that you don't even entertain the idea of overboosting with bypass regulation demonstrates that you have'nt got a clue as to how supercharger boost works.

What you all don't seem to realize is that there are several ways to configure a supercharger. The Atkins kit is not the greatest design- if for no other reason than that it's limited to draw-thru configuration. This limits your cooling abilities to running a water cooled intercooler at best- not nearly cool enough for the airflow thru the rotary. The blower wont allow the supercharger rotary to reach its full potential with the amount of boost it can deliver.
"15 psi"-Ppppfffttt, so what? Fifteen psi of hot air does nothing for anyone but match what's coming out of all your mouths!
COLD-COLD-COLD! - That's the ticket!

Something else about the Camden- It's a two lobed, straight rotor design. This is old design. "ffup-ffup-ffup-ffup" is NOT the way to go. Power is lost in pulsation. It could only work to the advantage of the engine if it were timed perfectly with a pulley ratio that was divisable by 6.
Todays technology even in Eatons smallest production M-62 uses tri-lobeb helical rotors and pressure venting ports to avoid pulsation.

Something else about the Camden- You have to tap for oil lines.
WTF? How moronic is that? The Eatons (and everything else) use resevoirs and are good for around 80K before a bearing rebuild.
-Oh what?- You think the Camden bearings are gonna last longer? Mmm-hmmm, O.K.

The "Atkins Kit" is actually a casting and design copywright bought from Camden- some people who apparently could'nt get their business **** together. It never did sell very well. 'Tis unfortunate because it being the only rotary specific kit out there, but not marketed very well, and having basically failed, youngsters like yerselves have'nt had enough exposure to supercharging the rex. Now it's been picked up again, but is being sold at an outrageous price by Atkins- (Kathy who is about as greedy and crooked as they come, BTW)- in an effort to recoupe the initial investment in the copywright cost as well as the costs of having to re-design the lost 13b manifold- Well, now we once again do have a supercharger for the rotary, but it's ridiculously overpriced, outdated technology, and just a plain old bad example.
But young girls like you seem to wanna take yer mommys turbo havin Honda and compare it to what you think the typical rotary SC set-up would be like.
You read some little tasty tid-bit about how a turbo works, and then you all become ****** rocket scientists overnight- well, at least enough to bash on anything that you know absolutely nothing about.

Why don't you girls go do yer homework, and then come back fer chatsys.