When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Strut Top Mount Orientation Seems Wrong, But What Do I Know?
I removed my strut assembly to replace the cartridges and springs. So very psyched up about this. However, I noticed that the orientation of the top mounts doesn't match my expectations, or each other. Looking at threads and comments, I gleaned that there is stock and max camber as described in the digram below, in blue and green. However my top mounts were setup as in the red section.
Does that make sense to you guys or should they *always* be in one of the blue or green orientations?
Regardless of how they were oriented,you'll want to put them both back in as follows: offset facing in toward engine compartment & rearward toward windshield respectively. This gives you maximum negative. camber which helps turn in. There's not a whole lot of adjustment,expect between 1/2-1 degree which is good. Also gives you maximum positive caster which helps return steering wheel to center after making a turn and helps stability and how the car tracks. Have alignment shop set toe in to 1/16"-1/4"& give you a printout of alignment specs before & after. These settings will get you the best handling with no premature tire wear. If you haven't already purchased new upper strut mounts,strongly recommend you do so. These two pieces basically support all the weight of the car and like i stated in your other thread the rubber in these is also 30+yrs old.There is a tendency with age for the rubber to separate from the mount which can let the upper part of the strut
shoot up and possibly hit underside of the hood. It's cheap insurance to replace them & like the control arm in other thread-you alreach have it apart. Not a job you want to do twice unnessarily.
Regardless of how they were oriented,you'll want to put them both back in as follows: offset facing in toward engine compartment & rearward toward windshield respectively. This gives you maximum negative. camber which helps turn in.
OK, cool. And looking at my tension rods, I think my last alignment must have been trying to mitigate the weird setup, their comparative lengths are pretty different.
And I did add oil to the proper level, thanks for the reminder.
So weird...I did this job about a month ago and mine were set just like yours shown in red.......
Ha! The only thing I can think of is that mine was changed during a long ago alignment, the OEM oil strut cartridges were still in there, no evidence either side was ever dropped for another reason.
You want to adjust them to match camber/caster from one side to another. Simply putting them at max camber is not too bright. That's not what this adjustment is for.
You want to adjust them to match camber/caster from one side to another. Simply putting them at max camber is not too bright. That's not what this adjustment is for.
I don't agree with you on this statement,nor do i care to be referred to as "not too bright" but it's the internet so... like most mass produced cars on an assembly line there are tolerances and allowances and during assembly getting the car close enough to what the specs that are set forth is what is done,more common to see this on domestic cars but is the same for the cars in question here. Biggest concern is steering wheel is straight and there won't be any handling quirks nor abnormal tire wear. Most cars come in close and this is what the offset strut mount is for. How much change do you think there is between each combination of these settings? Not much,take camber for example 1/2 degree total is about average,caster maybe a degree tops,likely less. The truth of the matter is if one of these is outside that specification( we're talking on an alignment rack here) by more than a little,parts are bent and needing replacement and or a frame machine is required to pull the unit body back in alignment to get back to neighborhood of correct because there was an accident of some type involved. I've owned several FBs,worked on them when new and alignments was and is a big part of my job. The majority of Fbs when new were pretty neutral/middle of the road and had no issues,some came in out of spec off the truck and back to dealership within 1000 miles for complaints of tire wear,dartiness on certain roads and vague steering. New cars- using strut top adjustments took care of some cars with slight problems,like stated above there is no real adjustment here to speak of. There were some cars sent to body shops for a pull-new car to "straighten" out the problem,some of these were repeat offenders,multiple complaints, had been in before for this and got a "set the toe and let it go". Point is really not that much adjustability built in to these cars in stock configuration. Go for the max -camber,maybe1/2-3/4 degree change tops. Half degree difference from side to side is serviceable. Regarding caster,same deal get all+ caster you can get and then some more or fine tune that with strut rod adjustment taking into account differential for road crown. Finish with toe in of1/16" to 1/4" and the MAJORITY of these cars will respond just fine. I do all my own alignments,just did complete suspension go thru on my SE last year. I reinstalled strut tops just as i recommended to Toruki in beginning of this thread. I know my car has never been in an accident. These are my alignment specs camber L -0.55 R -0.45 degree. Caster L 4.70 R 5.10. Toe in 1/16". As near perfect as a 30+ yr old car can be. Have considered camber plates or adjustable lower arms to get more - camber,may do one or other in future,for now car rides/handles just fine. From memory a lot of FBs i worked on and couple i owned came out just fine doing it this way. Before any further condemnation/name calling suggest looking thru many threads on this forum addressing same as what i proposed to op.
OK, cool. And looking at my tension rods, I think my last alignment must have been trying to mitigate the weird setup, their comparative lengths are pretty different.
And I did add oil to the proper level, thanks for the reminder.
Ha! The only thing I can think of is that mine was changed during a long ago alignment, the OEM oil strut cartridges were still in there, no evidence either side was ever dropped for another reason.
--
Possible it came that way from Japan. Try to get a good alignment done,suggest to alignment shop to try to end up with something near what i posted for my SE. The strut rod length mismatch could be for several reasons. Ask shop for before/after alignment printout. Post it here so we can get a look.
I don't agree with you on this statement,nor do i care to be referred to as "not too bright" but it's the internet so... like most mass produced cars on an assembly line there are tolerances and allowances and during assembly getting the car close enough to what the specs that are set forth is what is done,more common to see this on domestic cars but is the same for the cars in question here. Biggest concern is steering wheel is straight and there won't be any handling quirks nor abnormal tire wear. Most cars come in close and this is what the offset strut mount is for. How much change do you think there is between each combination of these settings? Not much,take camber for example 1/2 degree total is about average,caster maybe a degree tops,likely less. The truth of the matter is if one of these is outside that specification( we're talking on an alignment rack here) by more than a little,parts are bent and needing replacement and or a frame machine is required to pull the unit body back in alignment to get back to neighborhood of correct because there was an accident of some type involved. I've owned several FBs,worked on them when new and alignments was and is a big part of my job. The majority of Fbs when new were pretty neutral/middle of the road and had no issues,some came in out of spec off the truck and back to dealership within 1000 miles for complaints of tire wear,dartiness on certain roads and vague steering. New cars- using strut top adjustments took care of some cars with slight problems,like stated above there is no real adjustment here to speak of. There were some cars sent to body shops for a pull-new car to "straighten" out the problem,some of these were repeat offenders,multiple complaints, had been in before for this and got a "set the toe and let it go". Point is really not that much adjustability built in to these cars in stock configuration. Go for the max -camber,maybe1/2-3/4 degree change tops. Half degree difference from side to side is serviceable. Regarding caster,same deal get all+ caster you can get and then some more or fine tune that with strut rod adjustment taking into account differential for road crown. Finish with toe in of1/16" to 1/4" and the MAJORITY of these cars will respond just fine. I do all my own alignments,just did complete suspension go thru on my SE last year. I reinstalled strut tops just as i recommended to Toruki in beginning of this thread. I know my car has never been in an accident. These are my alignment specs camber L -0.55 R -0.45 degree. Caster L 4.70 R 5.10. Toe in 1/16". As near perfect as a 30+ yr old car can be. Have considered camber plates or adjustable lower arms to get more - camber,may do one or other in future,for now car rides/handles just fine. From memory a lot of FBs i worked on and couple i owned came out just fine doing it this way. Before any further condemnation/name calling suggest looking thru many threads on this forum addressing same as what i proposed to op.
Yeah, I don't read walls of text.
EDIT: Don't think I've ever read anything you've written because of this. I'm sure its chock full of useful information, but the delivery is beyond sub-par. Try using the return key.
Not to make this personal, but I just don't have time to sort through a bunch of text without getting to the meat quickly.
Now, from what I've gathered (from the first sentence). You don't like being called "not bright"? While what you are doing in my opinion is considered not bright; I was referring to the abundance of "max camber" people there are lurking out there.
With your ego satisfied I can go on to say that this adjuster was not intended to correct for large amounts of camber issues. Mazda intended for small amounts of camber to even both sides up with this plate. If you have large discrepancies in your camber angles I'd suggest a body shop to straiten your frame. If you want to look like a race car you should invest in adjustable LCA's; and if you are really into your car that's the way to go.
Last edited by Qingdao; 04-03-17 at 04:07 PM.
Reason: expanding
OK, cool. And looking at my tension rods, I think my last alignment must have been trying to mitigate the weird setup, their comparative lengths are pretty different.
--
ive seen that before, sometimes they adjust castor with the tension rod, and for a stock alignment, you shouldn't need too.
it is possible something is/was bent too, people used to drive the #*%t out of these things
GSLSEforme, Qingdao has a point. Also get some thicker skin, sometimes when things are posted its like
email, the essence of the humor/sarcasm etc is missing.
Do try to format things into paragraphs to make it easier to read and understand. You have posted some
good info here and in other threads but, like Qingdao, I tended to glaze over after a sentence or two because it was a wall of text.
Back to the strut top question, if nothing is bent and the torsion arms are adjusted identically then the
red orientation is the one you want (both pointed into the engine bay and at the rear).
Guys, thanks for the recommendations....going with the triangles pointed inside and back. I'm still working on it all and finding little things to do, so it'll be a bit before I go for an alignment, but I'll share the details after that.
04-02-17, 04:45 PM
