Bleeblobz

iTrader: (1)

I have been working on a rx7 off and on for some time now, 4 months. The last couple days I have been trying to get it started again had no luck. I did check the spark, I am only getting spark on the top plugs, is this correct? I am pretty sure I have my timing correct. I did rebuild the motor but I am certain the front pully is in the correct location to set timing, the key hole @ about 9 o'clock. I know it's getting fuel. If the spark is correct and timing are correct, it doesn't make sense. Any words of advice?

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

No, that's not correct. The top (trailing) plugs fire later and separately from the bottom (leading) plugs, and use a separate ignitor & coil. Based on what you're seeing, I'd suspect that your leading ignitor has failed.

The leading spark is the 'important' one; the car will run quite well without trailing but may not run at all without leading spark.

Since the two ignitors are identical, you can swap them for testing purposes. If the problem is a bad ignitor, swapping them should make it possible to start the car.

If swapping them makes no difference, then the problem may be the leading coil. Swap the ignitors back, then swap the coils.

Also, make SURE you have all your plug wires correct - I spent two days trying to re-start my fresh rebuild only to find out I'd swapped the front (1) chamber and rear (2) chamber plug wires. Easy mistake for even experienced people, & not obvious unless you're looking for it.

zaridar

iTrader: (3)

I did similar but had leading and trailing coil wires swapped... Oops

Bleeblobz

iTrader: (1)

Sorry I forgot to mention before I did swap the wires going to the ignition coils along with the wires coming off of them. Sorry, but I am unsure as to what the ignitor is. Is it the box bolted to the dizzy? I have a older dizzy, 79, are the parts interchangible?

By the way, thank you for the help.

Bleeblobz

iTrader: (1)

Are the leading plugs on top or bottom? Just to double check, what is the correct firing order?

t_g_farrell

iTrader: (1)

You don't have an ignitor, just points and coils. The coil/cap/plug wiring is the same
tho.

Bleeblobz

iTrader: (1)

I am positive I do not have points, neither dizzy has them.

Bleeblobz

iTrader: (1)

Maybe it's newer than 79 but I'm positive it does not have points. I got a bunch of extra parts with the car and this was with them. I was told it was from a 79. If the cap is the same on both, it may be for a different application. I tried to swap them out but they upper part of the distributor is different.

midnight mechanic

care to post a picture, so the experts here know exactly what you are dealing with?

in the mean time, verify that you have spark going to the L/Leading/Lower sparkplug.
after that, dump 1/2 a cup of methanol/Dry Gas/Heet Yellow down the carb. Then it should start with the throttle open. This works for me.

Since you said that it has started before,this eliminates the timing being way off. I've lost the the timing mark when installing a rebuilt engine. It was a bitch finding it again.

Ignitors are the 1 inch square 1/4 inch high brown squares attached to the distributor side. If you got those, then you don't have points.......a picture would be nice.

Recently, my car got harder and harder to start. All was solved with new plugs (NKG), new spark wires (bosch), new distributor cap (bosch), and new rotor. The Bosch parts are so tight, that it started right after I degreased and hosed off the engine.

Bleeblobz

iTrader: (1)

When I said started again, I meant after the rebuild. I've had it fire but its not done more than that. Here is a pic of the dist connected to the car. Yes, the other dist does have points, its been a while and I was at work, my apologies.


I have spark on the two top plugs. If I did need a new ignitor, where would I go to get one? A new dist is out of the question right now, I really want a new carb.



Thanks

midnight mechanic

1st swap ignitors. Get spark to the leading/lower plugs. Trailing is for emissions, who cares for now.

Ignitors are expensive. OEM from the Mazda dealer was $700. This was in 1996 before the internet. Mazdatrix has new and used.

Also on this site, there are tutorials on how to convert to the cheaper (more common) GM ignitors. Seems like something you'd need a EE degree to do.

DreamInRotary

iTrader: (49)

Haha That's about it too, but I'm sure once you have the parts in front of you it wouldn't be too difficult.

I'd try everything these guys are saying about swapping the ignitors and doing everything in your power to get spark on the leading plugs. As stated you can run a rotary without trailing plugs but not without leading ones. Just try to get the bottom two plugs sparking. Keep at it!

bikeordie092

iTrader: (2)

The GM ignitors are very easy to use. if you are going to do that, you may as well go ahead and do the DLIDFIS mod anyways. i made a write-up that seems pretty easy to follow if you wana take a look.

DLIDFIS- How to do it. (With GM Ignitors)

Bleeblobz

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the help. I will get on this today.

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

That pic is of an 81+ dizzy. The ignitors are the black plastic components screw-mounted to the outside.

New ignitors are indeed very expensive - - but used ones can be had pretty easily from here on the forum pretty cheap; look or post in the "wanted" section; they are called J-109 ignitors for that dizzy...

The GM ignitor solution requires some rewiring, but stock units just plug in.

Bleeblobz

iTrader: (1)

I scrapped all the corrosion off the terminals and switched the igniters. Now I get nothing. No spark from either set of plugs. I will get a new set of wires, a new cap and maybe I'll run new wiring to the dizzy. I also plan on swapping in the gm replacements, I did find a used distributor locally I hope to pick up.

bikeordie092

iTrader: (2)

yeah the wiring was a bit of a hassle.if you can find a good unit or some good ignitors, thats probably the way to go. i didnt really notice a huge difference from the DLIDFIS, but im pretty sure my motor was on its way out when i did it anyways.

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

If swapping the ignitors made you lose all spark, your problem is not just a bad ignitor.

You can just keep swapping parts around hoping you hit it lucky before you go broke, or you can tackle the problem methodically, find the actual fault(s), and then decide if repair or upgrade is a better path.

Your choice of course, but if you start trying to do a semi-complex upgrade like the DLIDFIS without first knowing what's not right, you're likely to end up with a modified system that few people can help you with that still doesn't work because the flaw was something the mod didn't change.

Just WTTW.

itr78

i agree - good to fix the major problem first before doing an upgrade. i had the same issue but luckily for me, after swapping parts around (coils, checking wiring, ignitors) it was a bad ignitor. if you swapped them, and have your wiring correct (leading & trailing) then it's likely also something else. could be the leading ignitor is bad since when you swapped it with the trailing doesn't get spark anymore. also since the trailing ignitor was good and now isn't producing any spark for the leading, you could have a bad coil? if coil pack is bad then you won't get anything going to the distributor/ignitors.. did you check your leading coil mounted to the front fender? also make sure wiring is correct - make sure the correct leads are going to the correct coils. keep us posted.

rotornoob

iTrader: (2)

It sounds to me like either a problem with the coils or the wiring from the coils. I had one car with a broken wire and it took me a while to figure it out as sometimes it would make a connection and sometimes not. The direct fire upgrade seems to have mixed results here on the forums but I think its mostly due to the condition of the engine it is installed on. I've had a 50% sucess rate with this mod, but I was using the older setup with a modified fc coil pack. One car tan ok before the swap and then like a raoed ape after, whereas the other car showed no real difference aside from blowing j109 ignitors occasionally. Part of that was probably due to using ignitors pulled at the junk yard as opposed to using new. Both cars were 12a cars.

Bleeblobz

iTrader: (1)

I received a new set of igniters today and have spark on all 4 cylinders. I also went through the harness and cleaned up some of the old wiring. I know it's not running yet but it's a good day in my life.

Bleeblobz

iTrader: (1)

What igniter is the leading and what is the trailing? On the distributor body, how can I tell the difference?

Cookboy

iTrader: (10)

Forward leads.

Bleeblobz

iTrader: (1)

I do have spark but still no spark. I've let it sit for a couple of weeks and ready to get back into this. I have spark, on all plugs. I checked the firing order, I am sure the wiring is correct. I set the timing to zero and nothing. I have checked the main pully to make sure it's in correctly, key hole about 9 oclock. It will pop, so I know it's firing. I can smell exhaust. It has to be something with the timing. Help.

bikeordie092

iTrader: (2)

what else have you checked? are you sure that you are getting fuel? theres more than just spark that will cause an engine not to run..