3rd and final 7

iTrader: (9)

Here i have some pics of the relays that i pulled this last weekend im making sure that i have the right ones and im also wondering if i need anymore i also marked items that im not sure what they are if you can help me identify them please? Also if you can tell what relay is which bc i dont know?

edit: also im in CA so i need all the smog to work and if i get refed i need everything that is needed to make it legit. im hoping Steve chimes in to help hes the man!

steve84GS TII

Here I am,broken jaw and all.....cant speak well but dont worry,I can still type.


The first pic is front left corner plugs......
#1 I dont recognize,but I also didnt use it,so I doubt its needed.
#2 are the test ports for factory Mazda scan tools as are the other bright green plugs scattered around the engine bay.The white plug next to them is to the leading coilpack.
#3 is a condensor,usually for the oil or water gauges.Nothing specific to the S4,our 1st gens have them too.

Between #2 and #3 is the plug to the CAS,notice its sheilded to prevent outside interferrence with the CAS signals.S4 engines run this large cord on the drivers side over to the ECU,while the S5 engines integrate it into the big passenger side engine harness.

The 2nd pic is also left side engine bay stuff......
The first one on the left is just a plain relay for something....dont need it.
The second one is the ECU main relay.You need to wire this between the FC underhood fuse block and the ECU/passenger side big harness.It switches power on to the injectors and engine relays via the two EGI fuses in the block....thats the big plug on the right.A switched power "on" signal from the key activates it though the smaller,two wire plug on the left.
I think the square plug next to it is just a chassis plug.It looks like the CAS plug,but its not sheilded and I think the wires are different colors.If its not the CAS connector,you dont need it.
Cant say for sure about the circled plug,I wanna say its to the fuel pump relay/resistor pack but those arent used on the S4 N/A engines and I think they are all located on the opposite side of the engine bay.I know the TII's have them over there.Looks like its probably crap,definately is crap if your doing an N/A S4 swap.If your going TII youll wanna mount the fuel pump relay pack on the drivers side and integrate that wiring into the custom left side harness.

Steve

85TIIDEVIL

iTrader: (2)

Steve, How the heck did u break ur jaw..?????

3rd and final 7

iTrader: (9)

Yeah how'd you break your jaw? thank you for the info im just going to confirm a few things with you if you dont mind.


1,3,4, the circled plug in the 2nd pic all the way to the right and the plain relay is not needed

the suqare plug next to the main relay is for trailing spark to the coils

where do i find the engine relays at under the hood of a 2nd gen

is there anything else that i need to rip out from under the hood of a 2nd gen to make all this work as far as relays.

everything that i put up in the pics i got from the driver side from the firewall corner and near the headllight.

Thank you Steve!

3rd and final 7

iTrader: (9)

i have couple more questions if you dont mind from this

https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...98&postcount=8

where is the opening circuit relay? (or is this not needed bc its not a turbo?)


1 to cold operation water temp switch....brown
1 to air bypass solenoid....red/yellow
1 to port air solenoid....brown/red
these go from the left harness to the engine harness



1 to 5th gear switch(for split air operation)....black/blue
this goes to the tranny

steve84GS TII

I was pulling an 8000lb track skid steer loader out of a mudhole with another tractor and the pull chain snapped at the very end.It veered to the side and was too fast for me to react and it caught me under the right side of the chin.Split my jaw down the middle and broke a section with 3 front lower teeth attached.Honestly,I feel very lucky because it could have got my eye,throat or brain just as easily.
It didnt hurt much at all,it didnt knock me out,I didnt loose any teeth as a result,and it barely swelled up.I have a 1" cut under my chin a'la Harrison Ford,but it was perfect because they used the laceration to go in last Thursday and install the Ti plate thats holding my jaw together.Seriously,about 3 days after surgury,there was no external visible evidence that it had happened,except for the cut....no bruising,nothing!My chin and lower lip are a little numb still but Ive yet to take a single pill,and it basically just feels like having braces all over again.I went back to work Sat afternoon and guess what the first thing was that I did...........pull the exact same F-ing maching out of another mudhole on a different job site! This has been the worst year by far I can remember, for stuck rental equipment and Ive been doing this for almost 15 years.So,5 more weeks of liquid diet and Im back in the clear.There is a small chance I might loose the 3 teeth if they dont get enough bloodflow,but that will have to wait to be determined.They say,"Take it on the chin".....they mean it!.Its the best place to take a shot, considering all the other vunerable and irreplaceable stuff on you face/head.

See,Im OK!.......J/K thats an old pic.



Anyway,back to the facts.......
Other than the fuel pump relay/resistor pack (TII and S5's only) you basically have everything you need there.Nothing near the headlights is needed,thats all relays for other non engine stuff.
The circuit opening relay is just a basic relay that sends power to the fuel pump(S4 N/A).....or the fuel pump resistor pack(TII & S5's). Its a little black and yellow square box under the dash,I think next to the steering column.Wiring is quite simple since youll not be using the resistor stuff that varies the fuel pump speed/pressure like the TII's do.

The brown wire to the cold water sensor usually goes to the sensor on the bottom left of the radiator.Its questionable if you even need it,I think I ran without and had no issues.FC EFI is quirky even if you get 100.00000% of everything hooked up.
The 5th gear wire goes to the "over the top" switch on the tranny.This basically just puts the air injection into full time operation anytime you are in 5th gear.Logic being,there is plenty of cooling air flowing under the car when cuising in 5th,so the cats are put to work 100%.Not really critical since smog tests are done in 1st and 2nd,again you could probably do fine without it.

The port air and bypass air wires will trace back over to the big right side engine harness.Just look for the correct wires to hook to on one of the underdash plugs that are hanging loose.Once you find the right color,just do a continuity test between that wire and the associated solenoid on the ACV,to be sure you have the right lead.

3rd and final 7

iTrader: (9)

When i first read that you broke your jaw i thought it was in a fight or something, i didnt expect it to happen while at work, glad your ok, it deffinlenty could have been worse!


im going to rewrap the engine harness and i was thinking about putting the CAS in with but not sure. what can i do to make the CAS harness sheilded once again, it looks like there is desodering fiber wire is running in the og harness to the driverside.

Thank You for your help once again for your help!

85TIIDEVIL

iTrader: (2)

Dammm brother... Good to see ur going to be alright. Sounds like it couldof been alot worse.

steve84GS TII

Thanks guy....(takes a sip of puree-chilli)....Ive already gotten good enough at talking with my jaw wired shut, that Im answering phones at work again.

If you can get a hold of the old S4 left side dash harness,you can extract the CAS wiring bundle,then resolder that to the plug.The 4 wires are normal leads and the braided sheild doesnt need to run over 100% of the wire,just where its bundled together with other wires.
If not,I guess you could hit an electronics supply shop and see if they have any metal sheilding tube.Im not really sure how critical it is to have the protection,but it would really suck trying to track an electrical/ignition problem that spawned from the lack of protection.....especially considering the S4 ECU's limited ability to express what its problems are.

3rd and final 7

iTrader: (9)

just wanted to show what iahve been doing with with the wiring diagram. i havent figured out exactly how im going to do this yet but im working on it.

I used ellow highlighter for the main relay.

green with FEM-02 plug( except on a few like the CAS)

blue for the ecu plugs

pink for check connectors

on the last pic

the middle connector is FEM-02 that is one i need not the right one which is
FEM-01 is this correct? The only wire that i was able to find that the FEM-01 to the FEM-02 that looks important, and i think that it comes the fuse box. if it from the fuse box i can just run a wire from the box.


edit; oh yeah i forgot to ask in the 1st pic at the bottom there are #'s with circles around them what does that mean?

Skidtron

iTrader: (1)

The numbers with circles around them are ground points and if you look at the ground distributuion page in the wiring diagram book it will show you where all those ground points actually are on the FC chassis. It doesn't really matter where they are on any car as long as the ground point is good and eventually makes it back to the negative terminal of the battery with the least resistence possible. If you need any electrical parts for the S4 NA let me know I have a box of the stuff I pulled when I was going to put a S4 in before I found the S5 car I raped for everything it had to complete my car. 91,000 miles isn't too bad for a NA hopefully.

steve84GS TII

Ehhhh........uhhhhh.........blahh!!

I hate those diagrams,they are a mess.
I just wish to God that Mazda had made an S4 engine wiring diagram that looks the like the Holy Grail page in the S5 Factory Service Manual.

You can actually use this page very effectively to lay out the swap wiring for any FC engine.The only differences are small ones,things that make an S5 different from an S4 like the VDI valve and electric OMP.....but Id say that its about 97% the same.The nice thing about this diagram is that it does away with all clutter,color coding and the plug coding.Its just a simple flow chart that starts at the battery and ends at the engine.The position and shape of the ECU pin-outs the only major difference,but if you disregard the ECU gangplugs and just focus on the actual EFI/engine components,youll find that most all of it is relevant to an S4 swap.

Just in case you dont know about it........its page F1-8, or page F2-8 for TII's...........

http://www.teamfc3s.org/main/factory...tems_turbo.pdf

djessence

haha how old a picture steve?

This is aweomse info, definetly learned alot from reading through this!!

3rd and final 7

iTrader: (9)

hey Steve how you feeling you getting any better?

am i going to need to get a Air By-Pass Relay?

3rd and final 7

iTrader: (9)

ive got a few more questions

1 on the 84 SE the heat hazard wiring goes through the control unit (not ecu) and on the 88 it goes striaght off of the ecu and then goes to the sensor and to the instument panel. can i just come out of the ecu and hook up everything like the how the 2nd gen one is setup? one more thing i noticed the on the 2nd gen the heat sensor, is called "heat hazard switch" is there any difference?

2 i also noticed 2 wires come off of the air flow meter and go to a fuel pump circuit terminal ( connector EM 300 what is this for?
i looked on the wiring diagram and it looks like a green plug like a test connector type.

steve84GS TII

Im doing good,2 more weeks of being wired shut and then I get to eat again.But I have to take it easy for a while afterwards,no frenchbread or jerky!Its starting to be sore now,which is good since the nerves are growing back.Had my 4 week inspection today and all's well.I havent even lost any weight,thank god.
That pic is from last year.

Not sure about any relay needed for the air bypass.I think they are just reffering to the solenoid on the ACV that initiates the bypass air from the pump into the silencer.I never used any relay and the S5 doesnt have one either,and its air injection system is pretty much the same as the S4.

The heat hazard switch is on the floorboard by the passengers feet.I think it goes into the CPU first then to the ECU on the 1st gen,is because there is another temp probe in the exhaust pipe on the 84-85 cars.The 2nd gens just have the one sensor on the floor which leads to the ECU and the idiot light.The ECU needs to be in the loop because if the cats/floor do get too hot,the ECU will cut airflow to the cats to lower their temperature and prevent a fire.The sensor is indeed just a switch,its either on or off.Id hook it up in the FC fashion and dont worry about the 1st gen stuff.

The S4 cars use the AFM to trigger the fuel pump to prime the system.When you crank the starter,the suction generated by the engine will open the AFM a tiny bit.This triggers the fuel pump to start up and prime the system to get the engine running.If you crash,or roll over,the AFM will close and the fuel pump will shut off automatically.The S5 does away with this setup because of its linear AFM,so the fuel pump relay gets its priming trigger direct from the starter cranking wire,then the ECU hold the pump power on so long as the engine is running.

3rd and final 7

iTrader: (9)

im glad your doin better! i had a good friend of mine when i was in southern FL her dad was a cop and he got T-boned in his squad car. his jaw was wired shut for months and he went from 280 to about 200. your very lucky!

here is a pic of the relay i was talking about ( sorry my scanner isnt working right, right now) i highlighted the wiring for the air by-pass relay. i looked on page 50-33 of the S4 wiring diagram and it shows that it is located near the passenger light, the connector is F-49. i also looked on F2-8 of the link that you gave above and it show right out of the ECU and into the solenoid valve. I also looked at this link https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generation-specific-1979-1985-18/documented-ecu-pinout-cut-list-13b-swap-394539/
shows that 3I is for the main realay which also runs through the other relay that i am talking about ,but i doesnt say in or out it just has a dash there. so i guess what i am saying is that can i cut out this relay, take the R/Y wire and hook it directly to B/W from the main relay. Then ground the BR/Y from the air by-pass.


PS if anyone that is close to Vallejo that wants to give me a hand i ll by the beer!

steve84GS TII

Ill have to look into that one,I know I never used any external relay on my S4 setup,and it smogged and ran fine.But I did only run the S4 for about a year.

The only real reason to use a relay for the bypass would be if it draws a lot of juice,or perhaps its activated for extended periods.Makes sense,a lot of the time there is no need for secondary air,like during decel,warmup,idle and full throttle.So,a relay might be used to take the load off the ECU while the air bypass solenoid is active and the smog pump output is being dumped.All this complexity regardling secondary air injection routing makes it clear why later cars often switched to clutched smog pump drives, or electric pumps that can be activated at will.

Ill look at my S4 wiring stuff and see what I can find out.It doesnt look too hard to use the relay if you must,it just wires into a primary power wire that comes from the main relay,and it ties into 2 ECU gangplug wires,"C" and "3I".
"3I" is on the big left side main harness.All wires labeled with just letters are the 1st gangplug,which is the smaller,lone harness that runs mostly to the leftside.

The orange highlight wire is the main power feed to the relay.
"C" controls the activation of the relay via the ECU.
The green highlight wire provides the power to the bypass solenoid.
The switch in the relay controls the grounding of the power through the solenoid,through the brown/yellow wire......thus controlling its action...on or off.
Im not sure why primary power from the main ECU relay is routed to the "3I" terminal at the same point where the air bypass solenoid is wired into the ECU.It might just be a convenient way to provide "switch on" power for the ECU.Its hard to say,diagrams dont always put junctions in the right perspective.....the union might be furthur up inside the harness,under many wraps of plastic and tape.You might not have to do much at all to make this work,just the external wiring to the relay itself,which can be easily located under the dash next to the ECU and other external stuff (knock control box and barometric sensors)
Ill let you know if i find out anything else.......

steve84GS TII

OK,scratch all that crap I said.

I was confusing the bypass air valve with the air relief valve.
The bypass air valve is just that stupid little canister that causes the idle to jump way the hell up when you first start the engine.Not only is this bad for a cold engine with no oil pressure,but its also apparantly not at all needed since the J-spec engines dont even have this component.

Im sure you can just leave it unhooked.The S4 ECU isnt smart enough to care that its not working,it shouldnt affect the smog in any way.If you leave it there and tuck away the electrical lead,or very discreetly delete the thing and plug the vacuum connections,I doubt any smog tech will notice or care.

3rd and final 7

iTrader: (9)

i went on ahead and pulled the relay from pick n pull ( btw if anyone is looking for a S5 na intake there are 2 in Fairfield there also 3 S4 na's) and got the relay and i already added the wiring to my harness. this was b4 i read our 2nd post which is cool it should keep the smog junkies off my back.

would i have to take my car to a Referee sense i am going from a 13B to a newer 13B, i ask you Steve bc i know that you have been through it before?

i also found out what the circled thing in the 2nd pic is up top it is a ground juntion connector, the ground for the main relay and some other things go to it and ground to the body.

steve84GS TII

Its good to do it all,just to be sure.

What was your previous engine?
In other words,what did your car come with from the factory, and what are you switching to EXACTLY?

If its a GSL-SE and you are installing an S4 engine,then you can likely just go to any smog guy and get through.They are not likely to be able to distinguish the S4 engine from the SE engine and the two have almost identical operating systems.An S4 TII wont raise much eyebrows either since the turbo itself is not a listed or ID'ed smog device.Even the S5 engines arent that far off in appearance and functions compared to the SE.They could likely slip through no problem,especially at a "test only" station where they do the minimal amount of poking and prodding.

If you had a 12A in your car from the factory,then any EFI engine swap will have to be reffed' because you are deleting the carburetor and going electronic.Thats why I had to reff my S4 swap when it first was done.I also had to go again when the S5 swap was done.This is because the S5 has no EGR system like the S4,and my old reff tag showed an EGR from the previous swap.Lack of that system would result in a visual failure,so I had to re-reff the S5 swap and get approved as an 89-92 swap to avoid needing an EGR......which is fine by me since EGR's are redundant on rotaries and they tend to carbon up the intakes on any engine that is strapped with the system.Guys with S4 cars that upgrade to S5 engines have to deal with this problem too,but thankfully the GSL-SE never had the EGR to begin with.This is also a point of issue for guys that get J-spec S4 engines and want to do a smog legal swap......it wont work since the J-spec S4's dont have EGR either.

3rd and final 7

iTrader: (9)

The last engine that i had was a stock 84 GSLSE 6 port EGI all that good stuff. Should i go on a head and remove my emission sticker or that illegal? I wish i could just call a reff and find out but the number that ive called is for making appointments. If my car to my normal smog tech (Rx7 owner) he already told me that if everything is legal he will tail pipe test.


As you can see in this pic that i have all my wires marked with tape. Do you have sujustion on how to get the wires through the firewall?

steve84GS TII

As long as your car is a true GSL-SE,then I wouldnt sweat an S4 swap.

Your actually ADDING more smog control devices than the SE engine had to begin with. As long as you dont try to pass off a header or illegal intake system,I see no reason why your normal smog guy cant/wont smog it.If for any reason he wont smog it,just because he KNOWS its not the stock engine,then just take it to someone who has never seen your car before.The S4 has all the same smog devices and the same basic structure as the SE engine.It does have an EGR valve which is buried under the intake,but the tech wont be looking for it anyway since they'll be running SE component checks on your engine.The under hood smog sticker is kinda a giveaway in regards to the "look" of the engine,but most smog guys dont look at that......all the info they need is on their computor.The lack of a distributor cap is also a giveaway of an FC engine vs the 1st gen,but the method of checking timing and the timing pointer/notches are the same for both engines.

I had my harness measured,soldered and taped up before I ran it under the dash.I just took a loose measurement with a string,then added a couple feet to that.I didnt want to risk making the harness too short,so I just looped the extra around under the carpet near the ECU.If you route it before installing the ECU gangplug,youll just have to feed each wire one at a time.

3rd and final 7

iTrader: (9)

My harness is about 10 to 12' some where around that, its cutting it close but not too close. For my CAS it is100% sheilded instead of what Mazda made it it looked like 75 or 80% . if i feed it after soldering the gang plug i dont think it will fit.

3rd and final 7

iTrader: (9)

So i ran the harness through the fire wall, i used 1" shrink wrap. i just tucked it in taped it up and feed it through. i also started soldering i got 5 wires done and i burned the **** out of 2 fingers, i will finish tomorrow.

i i will made a thread soon will all my other progress.

Once Again Thank You Steve!!!!!!