Embiber

I wonder what the shot is of the responses to this post being un-bias, i know i am not.

Today as I was crying over the recently,... for lack of a better word... broken engine in my 84 GSL SE. my friend and I were debating the cost of a new engine and whether or not the car was worth the investment. Well.... I promptly AND emphatically with upmost conviction stated YES!
He then went on a 15 minute monologue about how there were no "JAP" cars that will ever become classics. with possibly the slight exception to the Datsun/Nissan Z cars.

Due to the fact that i can readily admit that I am in fact bias about this subject, i will save you my rather lengthy AND passionate opinion. however, I am interested in hearing your opininion.

Will the 1st gen's or for that matter, any Rx7 ever become a classic?

Embiber

Acuspeed

I somewhat agree with your friend. For some odd reason, Americans (in general) don't like cars that handle well (essentially, sports cars). Rather, they like drag racing. That's the only reason I can figure for the lack of Japanese (or virtually anything else, save for exotics) of becoming classics in the eyes of most American enthusiasts.

That said, there are a few things happening that may shift that tide. First and formost, the ones who decide what is or is not classic are those spending the dollars on them. Most don't have the financial means to do this until they get older. The older gents buying up classics today are buying essentially what was popular when they were younger (or what was passed on to them as being "good" or "hot" by the generation directly above them). As we grow older, we are likely to do the same.

With that in mind, I expect (sooner or later) to see a shift where some of the great Japanese cars (which do truly deserve classic status) will rise to the same level as say, a 55 Chevy or a 64 1/2 Mustang.

When it happens, I expect it will start with the Z cars, then spread quickly to the RX-7 (most likely w/the 79 models and the GSL-SE's being the most sought after) as well as the Datsun 2000.

This is the way it works in my world anyway

Embiber

I have to reply,

your response is definitely one that has been thought through (obviously).
I might also add that my friend owns the following vehicles however im not sure of the model years.

340 Duster, Selling for $7500
440 Road Runner
Hemi Cuda, Selling for $35000

This guy is truly a Mopar FREAK, so it didnt really suprise me when he went into his rant. (I have to listen to it cause he one HELL of a mechanic!)

I purchased my 7 new, and have owned 12 vehicles additionally to it.
Of all the cars I have owned, I just cant seem to part ways with it. Sure..it may have a little to do with the fact that it was my 1st new car. However, I still love takin the top out, rollin down the windows and goin out for an evening drive. Of course its a plus when I hit the on ramp from SR202 to I-95S at 100+ mph (possibly the greatest 1/4 mile of road in North America)
I feel what makes the car so attractive it that offers the total package! performance, handling, Looks, and lets not forget economy.
Unfortunately your probably right, if it doesnt have a toilet on the engine that flushes when you smash the pedal, or have more cubic inches than your living room, it will probably be underappreciated as a classic.
On the other hand... I had NO idea that there were so many enthusiasts out there until tuesday. when I went on the prowl for information on mine.
In my opinion this little car is on its way, and for the following resons:
1. After 20 years this car has an appealing body style!
2. its rotary (need I say more)
3. its presence in the U.S. is substantial
4. it is still affordable enough to obtain and work on (parts)
there are more, but thats the basics.

Drawbacks:
1. Rotarys scare the hell out of alot people (some even think they were designed by aliens)

In closing...
as you said, it depends on the people who spend the money. but it also depends on those whom own them.
i.e. if everyone on your block sold their homes for $50,000 less than it appraised for,...what would happen to the value of the homes on that block.
Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying that WE underappreciate OUR cars, but maybe, just maybe,... we need to take a closer look at what is siting in our driveway, and what we would have to spend to get another type of vehicle that has the abilities of the Rx7.
I feel that people are starting to realize what some of us have had the pleasure to experience, That this is one heck of a all around car!. Hence, the growth in this vehicles popularity.....and value?

I truly appreciate AND respect your opinion.

Thank you

P.O.S. Racing

The buyers will dictate the market price for any vehicle, as the owner you can ask $15K for a low mileage –SE, but you must have someone who is willing to pay the asking price. I didn’t buy mine as an investment; I bought it to play SCCA and ER on the weekends. It’s been easily worth the $800.00 I paid for it! So to me it has been a great investment!

Keep in mind the $$$$$$ folks spend on some of these cars to get them to concourse level, then they sell them for market value, there are very few cars in the world that would get a positive financial return.

Embiber your friend’s perceived values for his Mopars may not totally be based on hard facts. I’ve meet many the collector with a “Rare” car that has rust, or a replacement motor, or incorrect parts, that they still feel will get the same $$$ as a pristine example of the same car. His may have A+ examples, but they will only be worth as much as someone is willing to pay.

Flobb

It's all up to us. Once a car hits that 30 year old mark, that is the time to make the move. Register it with antique plates and start getting into shows. It will only take one or two people to break the barrier. A lot of the shows have standards for getting in, but they probably don't account everything. Find a loop hole.
The problem is the old guys with their old cars. In that generation there were a lot stronger feelings about buying American than there are now. Not to say that people don't still think that way, but less do as strongly. These old guys can't live forever. Their cars will be passed on to guys like us. Then it will be an all out competition. No more GRANDFATHER clausing. (Old guys get what they want before young guys.)
As for whether a Nissan Z or an RX-7 will take classic status first, that is hard to tell. The Z is older, but the 7 is more unique. I think that the uniquity will give it a huge boost.

YellowJacket

I think the 7 is destined for classic status. Anyone remeber the thread i started about what makes a 7 what it is? I think that could shed some light on the future of our wonderful cars....
https://www.rx7club.com/vforums/show...threadid=16064

1984GSLSE

I have three RX-7's (84 GSLSE, 90 convertible and a 94 touring) and I love them all, but to me my 1984 GSLSE is a car I'll never part with. It's still one of the easiest cars to have fun with, without shelling out big bucks, and it has a timeless look about it that sure to be appreciated eventually.

MyRxBad

The Rx-7 has possibilities of becoming classic, especially if the
Rx-8 comes into full production and gives the rotary engine some much needed marketing!

Not enough people know about the rotary in general (well at least anyone I talk to) and what people don't know about scare them.

Therefore it's a good possibility, but we need help from Mazda and all the support we can get from each other.

I sure hope they do, then maybe my GSL-SE might grow in value.

In the mean time, I'll be wishfully thinking and enjoying my ride.

treceb

No the rx7 will never become a classic and its not worth the time or money to have the engine rebuild. So with that said I'll give you a hundred bucks just to take that eyesore out of your driveway.

All, joking aside. I'm not quite sure about this matter, but I can tell you this much, you'll never get back what you've invested. So I'd have to go with emotional value. Which is exactly what my dad is going through with his Beetle, what he will go through with his Ford Anglias, and what I'll probably go through with my 7 and my two VW's. The only way I'd sell my 7 is if I find one with lower mileage and better condition. I spent like 2 yrs looking for a GSLSE, and get asked all the time if I want to sell it.

All I can say is, if you can afford to have the engine rebuilt, and having more that one car, that is if your seven would beome your second car, will not become a financial burden, go for it.
You said you've had it since new right, and you've part with other cars. If you let this one go you'll probably start regretting right after signing the title over.

Denny

I have to agree with Treceb...Seven's are nothing but Cow-pie Road-litter...Tell yuh what...Give one hundred and One American Dollars to remove your unsightly junk that your better neighbors shake their heads at. Better yet, I'll arrive in late at night, and like a Repo man, hook it up, and speed away with the lights out so your neighbors won't be awake to make fun of yuh.

Presently, we are in a Golden Age. (No comments on my hair color, pardners) 1st gen Seven's are still too young to bring the Top Dollar, and too old and different to be a honey to the Rice crowd. (No, No! I'm only a Caveman. Your spinning triangle power confuses and frightens me!) This means that we Seven Cowboys can get great deals on the hosses we so love and nod sagely when boinger boys bring on the smack. I believe we only have a few years left. Have you seen the prices being asked for MGB GT's, Triumphs, Lotus Elans, Mini's, and Austin Healey's? Whoa, Hossey! And we've all heard this..."Aww, man. I used to have a '69 Z/28, Chevelle SS, Super Bee, Road Runner, GTO, etc. Wish I'da kept 'er...Be worth a Bank now..."
Remember, our Sweethearts came into being when the 1st gas crunch was on, Steel Mills were closing down, SMOG Laws were the word of the day....Having a quick set of wheels was frowned upon by Society. Anti-freeze was 11 dollars a gallon, we were having one shortage after another...Suger, chocolate, coffee, cereal, and dozens more....All the Company's were out to make a quick "shortage" buck. It's the late '70's and the highways are full of Vegas, Pintos, and Volare's, 55 MPH limits on Interstates, and 85 MPH speedometers....Shoot-fire, my Sheriff Prowl car was a Dodge Diplomat with an 85 MPH speedo!!!!
Datsun Z's were luxury boulevard cruisers, Stangs and Maro's were big, ugly, pollution control choked and sorely underpowered.

So what does Mazda do? Praise the Samurai Spirit, they bring out the RX-7!!! Will our hosses ever reach a highly desired status? Pretty damned likely, Buckaroos! So like I said, get 'em and love 'em now, before the 1st gen shortage hits and people with no dirt and grease under their nails start asking a fortune for 'em!

Denny, from the "ol corncrib...
Gonna move my Garage out onto the Interstate median strip, so I can step out and hollar..."All you guys, Get the Hell off my Damn Driveway!!!"

Embiber

Wow,

that wouldnt be Dennis (Denny) Miller, would it?

It took me 15 min to stop chuckling after i read that rant!

Seems as though many are Inclined to think that we, someday, will be the proud owner of classics.
Others say that they are great cars,...... for their 16 yr olds first car and to be likened to a bic lighter, use them and lose them.
Well you know my opinion.

now I struggle with the neverending battle of the wits. Shall I put an orig 13b in my little jewell(stay stock), Or shall I say hell with it and put a monster under the hood and strap a bottle of NOS to the top the size of a Buick?

Wifey dont care either way, i guess she figures that if I Kill myself in it. that shell cash in the life ins policy and retire in the Caymans. (not as if id listen to 'er anyway)

So this gives me an open "checkbook" to fix er up

Richard Miller

there was a 78 body at the local wreckers. one with the hood rod on the passenger side. It was there for years, body was square and complete, minus interior and the rear end. It is now gone to the crusher. I kick myself for not grabbing it but too late now.

My little project is an 81 that I am going to do a full restore on, but it will be modifed. I am adding a 13bt in time, but now I am working on the body. I plan on dipping the unibody like the older guys do to their cars. This is taking longer than I imagined.

As of the car shows the tide is turning, atleast in my area. My grandpa is the prez of the local car club. since he took the helm last year they changed the name from the Horseless carriage club to the Classic Car Club. He also introduced car show catagories for Asian cars and Euro cars, each get thier own award. I think this is great, it gives Identity to the cars. Instead of the foreign title to describe everything. not to mention the asian trophy, ones RX-7 could also win the modified class, (lowrider class if that is your thing), or even a best of show.

the next topic is what about modded cars? how will this compare on the classic market? I see it as the guy who puts a V8 int his I6 mustang. This results in more oohs and aahs from the croud.

Rich Miller

Northern 7

iTrader: (3)

How many junker '68 Camero's do you see on the road, or how about rusted out Super Bee's? Not many I'll bet.

The reason, I think, is that they are classics. If you own one or happen to find one, you spend the money and restore the car. Everytime you see one on the road, it's in mint shape and you have no choice but to admire it.

Where i'm from, 1 in 5 1st gen 7's is in the same kind of shape as described above - maybe that's why they are not considered classics or worth the big money the muscle cars are gettings. Most of the 7's are owned by kids with no money or no pride in the car they drive - they're rusted, poorly painted, and basically negleted and barely legal to be on the road. If all you seen are the cars you see on this site, you might find that there would be a different attitude for the 1st Gen. RX7

Mine's in great shape and babied like your first born. I get a lot of looks and more positive comments on this car than you might expect. Bottom line...... In a few yrs when the rust buckets are long gone, your well maintained little car will be the next generation of classic automobiles - hang on to them and of couorse, look after them... it won't be long now

Flobb

You guys never see any junky Camaros, Firebirds and Mustangs from the days of yore cause they're all around me. I'd say that one out of ten that I see are actually fully restored. Hell, my best friend from high school had a 67 stang that he tried restoring, then wrecked. Then a couple firebirds, an 89 and a 90, and then a 68 camaro that was restored. Only cause he bought it from the St. Louis Car Museum. I've seen plenty more that had beat up fenders, or interior that was torn to ****. I even looked to buy a 79 trans am that needed restoring.

Northern 7

iTrader: (3)

I was talking about "Classics" - late 60's - not 79 or 80 camero's -there's all kinds of crap on the road from that generation

davo22

as with any vehicle the lower production models will increase first. in Cali I am lucky to find a decent SE for under 2000. even higher priced examples sell quickly. At this time no price increase would break my investment even.
This car will remain at best a "cult classic" with a limited appeal. Any one here wanna talk about 510's. Reaching muscle car status requires first a muscle car. What morron can't appreciate a fast car going straight.

Rotary-MG

iTrader: (1)

I seems like no matter what car I drive, I always end up wishing for one reason or another that it was more like my 1st gen RX7. Remember when they first came out??? The only way of getting one was to pre-Order it since they were sold even before they hit the showroom floor.

I'm glad the 3rd Gen when back to a style that was more inclined to the 1 st Gen.

Really clean cars can be had for around $1500-2000. So if you have the storage, go out and grab a few.

But it all comes down to what is it worth to you. Although I appreciate some of these rich guys for their parking lot sized collections. I can't help to feel said for the car since they may never see sunlight let alone the pavement again.

I'll take the drivable beater over the trailer queen anyday!

CraigG

I think they will become classics, in their own sense. There will always be people who will admire them. But there are 10 times as many people who dont know what the hell that little car is. Even if the RX-8 comes out and does well (which I have my doubts about, I want more than just a rotary engine, I want a car too) There are still going to be too many people who are unawares of rotaries and 7s... Look as the Cosmo and Rotary Pickup, the only people who appreciate them are those who know what they are... The local MazFord stealership has a very nice restored rotary pickup in its showroom, and when talking to a former salesman, he said that not many people know what it is or what a rotary is... The Rx-7 has a lot going for it, classic lines, all around superb car, and a unique quality. But it has many things going against it. Except for those in the know, Mazda dosent mean sports car, and there is a disturbing lack of aftermarket support in the form of engines coming from Mazda... It will definatly be a classic, but not to everyone... You put a 1st gen in mint conditon next to an American Muscle car in a show and while people will say nice car, they will always look at the american. If there was more of a showing and a better reputation of the rotary engine it would be better... Only those who know cars know an RX-7, everyone knows american muscle cars... Thats just the sad fact...

cpt_gloval

iTrader: (1)

heh - i recently went to a car show full of camaros, mustangs, 'vettes, grand nationals, and hemis. silly me spent most of my time gawking at the single japanese import in the whole show: a beautiful 240z.

i agree with the fact that it's up to us enthusiasts.

i can't wait till i have the means to be able to track down a nice straight '78 or '79 to restore.

CraigG

Personally I love the RX-7, if for one reason. The fact that one company had the ***** to make an engine that nobody else had yet to admit was viable. A lot of people say that the rotary is unreliable, which I think is a load. I never once had a problem starting my car, even in sub 0 temps. And never once had a mechanical problem with the engine. It leaked a little oil and the cat clogged once, but the engine itself never gave me a problem. I am now the proud owner of a mustang. I will honestly say that I dearly miss the handling of my RX-7. Nothing was better than getting in my car and cruising the side roads in my area, cutting corners and having fun. If I could afford to modify and keep two cars and care for them both the way they deserved I would look for another first gen, probably a 13B, but i cannot at this time... I have no doubt that in their time they will be classics. but never to the same extent that American Muscle is.

Jason Guthrie

The RX7 will become a classic. Cetainly generation 1 with its small roadster/sportcar appeal (just like the Z). It is boards like this and people who own $2500 cars who also own the $50000 cars that will make the car a classic. Look at is this way. In 1970, do you think anyone really wanted a 64.5 mustang. Hell no. And now, would you want a 1970 mustang. Hell no. And yet, we want 15+ year old RX7s. It's already a classic. And the reason 15 year old RX7s don't catch $20k pricetags is that this car has always had a hard time keeping resale VALUE (which is a factor for 5-15 years on all new cars) due to its rotary engine and being a sports car. 2 no nos for chickenshits.

So if you own an RX7 for reasons other than, "It's all I can afford", you are someone who will promote the cars existence till the day it officially becomes a classic. The car has potential because of it's uniqueness.

People kept those boat cars around, and quite frankly, they suck at being a car or a boat.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

> People kept those boat cars around, and quite frankly, they suck at being a car or a boat. <

I think they're cool.

Yes, the RX-7 will become a classic. Even VW beetles are now classics. It's easy to even get collector's plates for them.

So, if the Cosmo Sports is a classic (is it?), then the R100 and RX-2 should be soon. Speaking of uniqueness and rareness, the REPU is/will become a classic around the same time as the RX-4 and Cosmo.

All of Mazda's rotary powered vehicles should become classics. Who's with me?

Embiber

> People kept those boat cars around, and quite frankly, they suck at being a car or a boat. <

I am in the process of replacing the engine in my Rex, ran through an awfully deep puddle. Water got in, dispaced the oil, lost lubrication,....then whammo.....thats all she wrote!

betcha that little car is a better boat than my rex..

peejay

Let's see...

Spec7

Pro7

ITA

E Production

V8 Conversions

13BT Conversions

20B Conversions


I don't think there will be any 1st-gens LEFT in ten or so years!

cjf

iTrader: (1)

I am biased(aren't we all who own one)>.I just don't see how anyone can say they will not be a classic someday and appreciate in value...especially the se, 79's and maybe the 83 limted edition...we all agree it has that timeless body style..., and heck, they did not make that many of them (as far as the 84 se )...they only made 7500 84 se's ...so ,,,that is pretty rare.....as for value...I don't know... you can see some pretty high asking prices ..but my guess is they sit.....I think these cars go too cheap.....I'd hate to tell you what I paid for a 84 se and a 83 gsl!!...I had to buy them!!! cheap , cheap , cheap...they need some minor cosmetic work but that was it.....anyway...I hope they appreciate, I hope that americans appreciate the style and uniqueness of the rotary ....and if they love the looks , they will love the drive......zoom , zoom ,zooom.......luv my 7's!!!!!!!!!!