GavinJuice

see the 2 grease zirc's in the image? It's a ball joint, you don't use the stock bushings.

cmanns

from the dead :3

I just got mine including some replacement stuff for the front I'll save for when I can do everything and get an alignment.

The idler arm looks easy to replace sadly mine doesnt look bad atm so I guess it's not whats causing my horrid steering

jshiz

iTrader: (4)

I'm about to buy the Moog Idler Arm. Do I need another bushing with it or not so I can order them together And have it done once it gets here.

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

The Moog is complete and all you need unless you want to replace tie rod ends and other parts of the steering.

jshiz

iTrader: (4)

Thanks

Well I need new bushings as well but I'm saving money for RE-Speeds complet bushing set. I'm also going to adjust my steering box while I'm down there. And I'm replacing my shocks and springs as well. Once I replace everything I'm going to have an allignment done.

My steering is extremely sloppy. Like I wont move my steering wheel and my car wants to wonder around everwhere around the road. So I'm hoping replacing this stuff will cure that. I think my tie rods are good but would my pitman arm cause in issue with my steering as well or should I be fine?

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

I think you are probably fine. The idler and the box are the most common cases for the slop. I went ahead and repalced all of the steering parts (except the box). I still need to adjust the box. I also did shocks, spring, bushings, etc. at the same time. Might as well since everything was apart anyway.

I my case, the pitman and tie rods were pretty solid, but the dust boots were totally shot letting dust and dirt in the joints. I got most of these steering parts from a forum member who was going to use them, but decided not to, so I got a pretty good deal.

I think what you are doing is a good plan. I do recommend the respeed bushings when you can afford them. This should get you in pretty good shape. If you do end up needing tie rods or pitman, those are easy enough to replace later. Also, consider if you do the bushings and tie rods separately, you may need to get the alignment twice. Depending on what the alignment costs, it might be less expensive to go ahead and replace the tie rods and only getting 1 alignment done. Just depends on cash flow, too. The tie rods can probably wait, so doing them separately will probably cost more total, but would save you some cash now.

I did notice when I did my upgrades that the wondersteer almost got worse. Before there was enough slop in everything to where you didn't really feel when the steering box was actually doing something. Now, it is very clear where the steering box starts actually doing something. I need to figure out the adjustment on it. It is a P/S box, so it is a bit different than the manual box adjustments.

jshiz

iTrader: (4)

Alright, thanks for the help. I'll just adjust my box once my new arm gets here.

Kentetsu

The Moog idler arm is a complete unit (I don't know where the question of extra bushings came from). This is the same unit (from Rockauto) that some specialty parts places (mazdatrix, racing beat, etc.) sell as a "race" version, charging significantly more for it...

__________________________________________________ ____________________

Tie rod ends
Idler arm
Pitman arm
Ball Joints
Wheel bearings

All of these can contribute to steering slop. All of these items should be inspected/replaced before you attempt to adjust the steering box.

__________________________________________________ _______________________

Once you are ready to adjust the box, I would recommend that you follow this procedure:

Okay, I copied this from an old post that I responded to some time back. Hope this helps. It worked great for me, and was a lot simpler than the other methods. Might be a cheap shortcut, but like I said, it worked so I won't complain....



Okay, if your's is the same as mine, here's whatcha do;

Very important! Grind the beveled edge off of the large socket that you are going to use. It is almost impossible to get that one loose without rounding the corners off even without the bevel on the socket.

Okay, once that is done then get that large nut broken loose. If you manage to do that then you are home free. Once it is loose, then hold it while you turn the next largest nut (mine has a series of holes drilled into it). I used a hammer and cold punch to turn it. Tighten it about 1/8 of a turn, then retighten the large nut and take it for a drive.

This will be a trial and error type of thing. If its still too loose, then tighten that inner nut (the one with the holes in it) another 1/8 turn. If you end up getting it too tight then your steering will loose its self-centering properties and will quickly wear out completely.

I got lucky the first time I tried this. Took it for a drive and there was damn near zero freeplay, but not too tight. I used to have about 2" of freeplay, which was a really exciting setup, but not too practical. Now, when driving down the road small adjustments are almost done telepathically! This changed the entire feel of my car. By far the best thing I have done to it as far as improving the driveability and fun factor...

Good call on ordering your parts from Billy @ Respeed. Good luck with your repairs...



.

ray green

iTrader: (14)

I got the moog unit from rock auto about a month ago for a little less that $70, shipped. We put it in in less than an hour, with beer breaks, very easy installation. Just break the connection to the center link with a pickle fork, unbolt the old idler arm and bolt in the new moog unit. Tie it to the center link and you're done.

From the moog online catalog:



Here's the installation:



Warning, the moog unit is a little stiff when you first put them in, makes the steering seem unresponsive, but this goes away after a few days as the unit breaks in.

Also I followed this up with the steering box procedure Kent describes above and this worked well to take up most of the steering play. I think I'll give it one more tightening to see if I can get it a little tighter this weekend, but it's already way better and good enough not to worry about. Here's a tip on getting that large thin lock nut loose. I tried everything, including channel locks, large vice grips, hammer and chisel and the shaved socket described above.

But what finally worked was a small pipe wrench, just big enough to open up and get around the lock nut. When you cinch that thing up it grabs on and won't come loose. Worked perfectly first time. Here's a photo of the steering box I was dealing with before I managed to break the lock nut loose:

jshiz

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for the heads up. I'll be "favoriting" this page

LongDuck

You guys talked me into installing my Moog idler arm this evening after reading all your posts about how easy it was. And it is.

I had the tires rotated, dialed in a little more toe-out (fronts wearing on the outsides of the tires), and installed the Moog Idle Arm in less than an hour, and I was taking my time. One of the easiest 'upgrades' I've ever done, and when I got the stock idler arm out of there, it would spin around freely with very little resistance. I'm wondering if it was inadvertently causing some of my toe-in/out issues that I've had where the car feels 'dodgy' over uneven pavement.

Anyway, we'll find out soon enough. Thanks again to the board for talking me into doing something I should have done years ago!

This is the part - and for the record, there are no 'bushings' required with this install (as mentioned INCORRECTLY earlier in the thread), it's dead-nuts simple;

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

Good deal, LD. It is a very easy and nice upgrade.

Here is what happens with shot stock idler arm bushings (special thanks to the Late/great Blake ) :



https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...ight=idler+arm

Kentetsu

LongDuck-

Since the idler arm connects only to the center link bar, it can't contribute to changes in toe in/out. It can allow movement from left/right, but that's it.

If you are experiencing sudden changes in the steering while turning (unexpected darting), then I would look into your ball joints or tie rod ends. Just don't want to see you eat a light pole or something.

And yeah, idler arm installation is dead simple. I did mine from above the car, so I didn't have to pull off a wheel or jack up the car or anything. Installation time was like ten minutes once I got the tools out.

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

The only "WTF?" moment doing an idler arm is realizing that it's on bolts that go through the frame member, not on studs as it first appears.

Panicked when I was trying to undo the mounting nuts and realized what I thought was a welded stud was rotating. Said some bad words.

I redid the bushings in my stock arm, and it helped a lot, but I suspect the ball at the centerlink end is also worn a bit too much. I'll Moog it next time I have a little extra scratch laying around.

Kentetsu

Yeah, the Moog arm rocks. I installed a used one a few years ago, and it is still rock solid.

I absolutely hate working on cars (seriously), so when I have to I like to make improvements to make damn sure I'll never have to work on that particular part again for a very long time.

LongDuck

On my setup, all ball joints and end links are new as of January, so this was the last component to get replaced in my front-end.

Actually, the more I think about it, the 'dartiness' seems to have gone away since then, but I was attributing the fixing of the wandering car to the excessive toe-in I'd created when I installed the new tie-rods. Toe-in increases straight line stability, and the car became rock-solid in the straights after I replaced the tie-rods with new ball joints. When I installed them, I tried to measure them as closely as possible when putting the new links in place, but you can really only get so close by guesstimating. After a roadtrip a few weekends back, I realized how badly the outside edges of the front tires were wearing, so I shortened the links by 1/2 turn on both L and R sides (to decrease toe-in). With the tire rotation performed last night, I have 'reset' the fronts to watch for outside tread wear.

We'll see if that fixes the wear issue, and yes, I'm just too lazy to take the car to an alignment shop, and I also don't like other people working on my cars. Have been putting some thought into laser pointers on the wheel center caps to try and get a better alignment through measuring where the lasers hit my garage wall, but I digress...

Thanks again, guys.

ray green

iTrader: (14)

This looks like it might be an inexpensive alternative to the Moog. It looks like the same part for half the price:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...SS%3AUS%3A1123

SamV

*Update* Key has to be in ignition... Problem solved!

Help! After combating with the old setup this week the Moog idler arm is finally on, but I can't move the steering by more than 20 degrees to either left or right. Before the old one came off, I could move the steering freely with the engine off. What did I miss? Never owned a car with manual steering before. I read that the new Moog would be stiff but I should be able to steer it... 😆

Toruki

If you are saying that when driving the car you can't move the steering wheel more than +/- 20° then that's a serious problem and you should not drive it until you get it fixed.

Edit: Also make sure you installed the fitting and greased the Moog idler! And it does take some time for them to loosen up to a more normal, firm but free moving feel.

But if you mean that when the car is at a stop that it's much more difficult to move the steering wheel, then that is normal for manual steering and shows the improvement your new idler has made. With the new idler, you've removed a bunch of slop in the linkage...you had 40° of slop and inaccurate steering...also pretty dangerous! So good thing you fixed it. Normal play btw is 1/2" to 3/4".

And as an aside, even with power steering it's a good a idea to have the car in a motion at least a bit while you steer for parallel parking etc. If the car is not moving you are just scrubbing your tires needlessly and straining the system. Not a huge deal but worth avoiding.

Ckforker

I did mine a couple weeks back and found no difference in force to move it, so something is really off on yours.

SamV

It was plain stupidity on my part. I forgot that the key has to be in the ignition for the steering to turn. It turns fine now and I just need practice to steer competently. And yes I didn't insert the fittings the first time and had to remove and reinstall. 😁

Toruki

Glad it's working. We all do stupid stuff (just read any of my posts lol) but that is quickly overcome by getting the job done yourself. Enjoy!