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Years ago I took off the top half of my 85 GSL-SE engine (with an almost "new" 192,000 miles on it, no rebuild needed) to get at the fuel injectors. That first time, following the shop manual instructions, I got coolant in the engine below and had to learn how to flush it out. There's no mention of coolant in the shop manual instructions about this procedure. The second time I did that job I drained all the coolant from the system and then took the top off. Did I really need to do that, or can I just disconnect the hose to the wax pellet (that controls cold idle starting) and go from there, or some other method, or does all the engine coolant have to be all drained out before taking the top of the engine off?
Th reason I'm doing the job now is that I've been smelling a fuel smell on startup and sometimes on shut down after a drive, coming from the passenger side (US car) of the engine. I suspect either the injector hoses may be leaking under the hose clamps, or the injector grommets have failed. The pulsation damper in front of the engine seems OK (no leak or fuel smell from it). In case that does turn out to be bad, I got a damper bypass kit from Atkins Rotary (It's basically a bolt with a bypass hole through it and two metal washers ) to replace that damper assembly. Atkins says in a stock GSL-SE the bypass won't affect acceleration or idle quality. Has anyone out there tried this fix if needed? The bypass kit just cost $20 instead of $165 for a new pulsation damper.
I just remove the coolant hose at the thermowax inlet. Coolant drains out and will not gush into the intake manifold when the dynamic chamber is removed. Bear in mind that this hose connects to the small upward tube on the rear iron and there may still be some coolantin the hose. Not enough to make a huge mess but it will be seeping.
As above, if you remove the coolant hose from the Thermowax Pellet to the rear iron, you can twist that formed hose into the hole for the rear engine lift mount, which will keep it from leaking. On the front, just push the hose upward and hold it there with zip ties, and you won't lose any coolant but a few drops if you're quick. There is no reason to drain coolant for Upper Intake (*or even Lower Intake) Manifold removal, as there aren't any coolant passages like on 12a intakes.
Regarding your fuel smell, here are a few things to look at, prioritized from most likely to least likely causes;
1) loose or cracked vacuum hoses to the Carbon Vapor Canister - these run along the firewall from the fuel tank to the oil fill pedestal, and if loose will result in fuel smell on shutdown, as there's still pressure in the tank which bleeds down.
2) Fuel Injector Grommets - at the top and bottom of the Injector are rubber grommets that seal the fuel rail to the Injectors and at the bottom, seal the Fuel Injectors to the center iron. These can deteriorate and will cause vacuum leaks and poor idle and performance.
3) Fuel Injector leaks - when the bodies of the fuel injectors fail, the plastic end will crack and allow high pressure fuel to mist (35-44psi on an SE), which is a dangerous fuel leak. These are easily checked by looking for pooled fuel on the top of the engine where it meets the LIM.
3) Fuel Injector Hoses - The feed and return lines come up the firewall and connect to the hard line spider that runs under the RE-EGI chamber. This spider has soft lines to the Fuel Rail, and you'll want to verify condition of all hoses for integrity. Be aware that on an SE, you MUST use high pressure fuel hose, as use of low pressure (*carb pressure) hose will result in quick failure through perforation of the tubing from the inside, and misting of fuel. Use the right stuff, and good quality hose clamps.
4) Pulsation Damper Leaking - Very unlikely to be the cause, the Pulsation Dampeners on these cars do not fail regularly, and I recommend leaving it alone. It is needed to balance the matching PD mounted to the Fuel Pump, and removal can cause erratic Fuel Injector operation under conditions when the timing of pulses is mismatched. If its leaking, it needs to be replaced - not bypassed. I doubt that's your problem, though.
5) Intake Manifold Gaskets - these can be damaged by removal of the intake housings, and might cause a fuel smell on that side of the car on shutdown. You'd notice vacuum leak issues during running, though.
6) 6-Port seals leaking - again, very unlikely, but the 6-port shafts run through the LIM and have a small rubber grommet under the plate that you can see that's held on by 2× Phillips head screws. If these are damaged or missing, fuel smell might come out through here on shutdown.
and, lastly,...
7) Exhaust system gasket leaks - rotary engines tend to run rich and aren't very fuel efficient, so an extra rich unburned mixture sitting in the exhaust manifold miht stink for a bit on shutdown. Very unlikely, as you would HEAR an uncorked exhaust system before you'd smell it.
Have a look at those things and post back. The UIM removal can be done in 15min or less with a 12mm, 14mm, and assorted screwdrivers for your hose clamps - it's a very simple and straightforward job, and be sure to use your Fuel Injector Leak Test plug BEFORE you put it all back together, or you'll get extra practice when you have to do the job again because there's a leak,...
For what it's worth I had an "identical" situation on my 85 GSL-SE about twenty years ago. I noticed a strong gasoline smell coming from the right side of the of the engine compartment after shutting off my engine and it turned out in fact, to be a bad "pulsation damper."
Thanks all for the suggestions. I did check the pulsation damper and it's dry with no leaking from the front. I tightened the short fuel lines to the injectors. One clamp was slightly damp and may have been seeping a bit. Something I've learned with the chamber off....Don't lean on the top radiator hose as it pushes coolant out of the now open hose that goes to the bottom of the chamber in the back.
But now I've got a big problem. There are four small vacuum hoses that plug into the posts at the front of the dynamic chamber. Turns out the third post line down goes to a round black plastic joiner (forget what it's called) that then splits off to three vacuum lines that go to three metal posts under the chamber at the top of the engine "block". These vacuum lines were totally rigid after 37 years and broke off the plastic tabs on that round joining part. The hoses themselves cracked apart too. I called Atkins Rotary and that hose joiner part is no longer available. So I made my own vacuum line "harness" connecting three vacuum hoses into one, to plug into its post at the front of the dynamic chamber. Going to install my new vacuum hose the original hoses all cracked trying to get them off and the ends off the hoses were baked onto the metal posts so I had to cut them off.
Here's where I made a big "slip up". My knife slipped and sliced the rear small plastic oil feed line, just in front of the metal fitting that holds it in. There is enough slack in that plastic line to where, if I can undo the fitting that holds the short broken off piece, I could push the end of the remaining line into that and tighten it in. There are two metal tabs on that fitting so I'm hoping they can be turned to unlock the broken piece and press in the end of the remaining good line.
I tried and tried but there's no way I could find that would expand the opening on that line to get it to press over the oil inlet post. I ordered the 4 line replacement kit from Atkins Rotary yesterday, along withe replacement washers, etc., although I'm probably just going to replace the one broken line. Atkins says I can get to the feed lines from the pump in front of the engine directly by just removing the air pump. If the one line is easy, maybe I will replace all four. In case anyone's interested I'll post how that goes next week..
Honestly, I would replace all four. In order to access one you will he remov8ng everything needed to access all four. The lines are brittle and now is the best time to replace all of them.
I just had my dynamic chamber off on Tuesday to replace a coolant feed line and I checked my omp lines and noticed they are not as supple as they once were. I did find that my fuel feed hose on that runs across the top of the engine from the feed line to the fuel rail was starting to crack. I replaced that while I was in there. It made it 14 years so I had no issue replacing it. When i installed the engine, I installed all new vacuum lines and new hoses. When you open a can of worms, and start replacing one thing, it can be difficult to stop replacing parts that are a while you're in there part.
I would also replace all 4 OMP lines, as they're easy to replace when you have it all apart anyway. Not that the OMP Actuating Rod which drops down the front of the engine from the Throttle Body needs to move freely. Occasionally, it will get hung up on stuff there and won't pull all the way up with the Throttle Rod, which means your OMP isn't running wide open at WOT. Also, bends in the Actuating Rod are designed to clear everything, but if it's bent slightly at all, it could bind up, so be careful with it on removal. Sidenote: that has got to be the smallest cotter pin ever produced holding it on there...
Replacement of all 4 lines isn't necessary, but at least you'll know theyre a bit more flexible and resistant to cracking during future work, and now you have 3 spares to store CAREFULLY somewhere safe.
I probably will replace all four when I'm in there if it turns out to be not a nightmare. For you guys who've done it, am I correct that once I take off the air (smog) pump I can do the job from the top of the engine compartment? And do the receiving assemblies for the tube (with that "ring" on the end of the tube) attach just like they do at the top of the engine? Looks like I'll have the new tubes from Atkins by Tuesday so I'll report back with pictures maybe on Wednesday. I am grateful for the advice.
Yes, the only way to do this is from the top of the engine once you've removed the Air Pump. Of course, you also need access to the top of the engine, so the Upper Intake Manifold needs to be off, as well. The 4 Oil Injectors are threaded into the housings and sandwich the banjo fittings on the Oil Metering Lines with copper crush washers. Do NOT over-tighten. Follow the FSM spec for torque; same for where they attach to the Oil Metering Pump. You'll have plenty of room to work from the passenger side of the engine bay, just go slow and take your time threading them where they need to go. Their pre-formed nature means they're impossible to get installed incorrectly unless youre drunk, stoned, or are trying really hard to screw it up.
OK guys...New question/issue related to above.. Got the new Atkins Rotary oil injection lines today. Took off the air (smog) pump to have access to the 4 bolts/connectors on the front of the pump at the front of the engine. I unbolted the "joiner" piece that seems to clamp over all four lines on top of the engine just before the lines head down to the pump on the front of the engine.It doesn't seem like that "clamp" or joiner "unclamps".and that the original lines were maybe all pushed through that part at the factory. I cut the already broken line below that "clamp" and pulled it through but it took some serious pulling to do it. Does that clamp come apart somehow?. Maybe at the factory all four lines came as an assembly already clamped together? So, right now that little "clamp" has me stumped. What do I do with it? (I won't be offended by funny comments if I get a legit answer too, ha ha). Thanks.
Are you talking about the folded strip of metal with rubberized coating on it? That is bolted down near the water pump and only serves to keep the lines from banging around. Gently (*very gently) pry that band of metal upward and it gives you plenty of room to move the lines in and out. It's not a complete circle to the bolt, so one edge can be peeled up slightly to give you room. Be careful,
My car is fixed due to all the great help I got on this list. I ended up just changing out the single broken oil line though as I was running into a time crunch and the other three lines seem OK. If I ever need to get in there again I now know I can do it. Your tip on gently bending back that metal clamp holding the four lines together worked perfectly. One of the hardest parts of the whole process was reinstalling the air pump since I had trouble finding where that bottom bolt goes back in, since you can't see it, just do it by feel.
While the top of the engine was off I did fix the raw gas smell problem by installing new injector grommets (the old ones had shrunk a bit) and installing new clamps on the two hoses leading to them. There was a very small seepage from one end of one of the hoses that's now gone. Finally, after a year of my garage smelling like a refinery when I turned off my RX7, now.....no more fuel smell at all in the garage or the car. Awesome!
I did run into what I thought was a serious issue after I got the engine top back on after that, and also replacing most of the cracked vacuum hoses under there that go to the four posts on the "dynamic chamber". Three of the little tabs on the round black plastic "joiner" that four hoses plug into on one side, and has one tab for a single line on the other side going to the third vacuum post down on the chamber, broke off when I tried to remove the 35 year old brittle hoses going to them. Since that part is apparently unobtanium, I got a cheap plastic parts store vacuum piece (ordered it from O'Reilley Auto parts for under $4.00) with five vacuum posts. I plugged the four new vacuum lines from the four posts under the chamber that went to the broken factory part into the new "joiner" and plugged a new hose length into the fifth post on it, going to the third post down on the side of the dynamic chamber. Reinstalled the dynamic chamber, plugged all the hoses in and reinstalled the top of the engine. If you haven't done this before, be sure to take pictures and tape a little piece of paper on each and mark which hose goes to what, before you take everything apart.
So, everything was back together last night and wondering if it was all going to work and did I plug everything into where it was supposed to go, plus did I fix the as smell issue, I turned the key and .It started right away but would not hold idle and stalled immediately after several tries. It would hold steady at high rpms but stalled otherwise..It seemed like a vacuum leak somewhere and I figured I'd routed one of those many hoses the wrong way and was going to have to start over, but ended up finding it was a simple issue.
When I had the chamber off I had cleaned the throttle plates and the air intakes to them.Turns out the plates had hung up fully open so the engine was getting too much air. . When I took off the air intake tube, there they were, fully open! I manually flipped them down and back up a few times and then they sat properly, just slightly open at the bottom. I started it and drove it several times today to make sure all is well and it drives like "new" again, even with almost 193,000 miles on it.
That's a long story, but maybe it will help someone reading this in the future. Thanks again for all the great advice here. I am grateful for it.
06-18-22, 05:49 PM
Removing GSL-SE Dynamic Chamber Questions
