rebuilt carb, flooding problems.
#1
vrrmmmmm
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rebuilt carb, flooding problems.
Hi I'm having some issues with my carb. I rebuilt it because it was leaking a lot.
I got the hygrade rebuild kit and followed the carb FSM for dissasembly. I cleaned everything with carb cleaner, soaked jets/airbleeds, and blew everything off with my air compressor.
I put the carb back on my car and was able to start it up. I went for a drive and it started bogging. It died and I pushed it home.
When I would turn the key to on it would just dump gas into the primarys, and the secondaries would also get filled with fuel. I took the intake/carb off, and checked the floats. It was at ~55 so I moved it to 51mm. Took the air vent solenoid apart, it looked good.
Put everything back on, and I was able to get it to start up and idle by increasing the idle (It was around 900) I let it run for about 8 minutes and it seemed ok.
Took it out and after 5 minutes or so it starting bogging again, got it onto my street to roll it home. With the air filter off and the key on gas is still continuing to dump into the primaries and now secondaries. Especially the one closest to the rear of the car.
So now it's basically doing the same thing as before, just letting too much gas through.
I wasn't able to unscrew the needle seats when I did the rebuild because they seemed stuck in there. Is using new needles with old seats causing this issue? Should I switch back to my old needles, or should I take the airhorn off a spare carb I have to see if I can get the seats out of it, and then clean and use that one?
Thank you guys for your help! My pregnant girlfriend crashed her car after a blowout and now my Rx-7 running is a necessity.
I got the hygrade rebuild kit and followed the carb FSM for dissasembly. I cleaned everything with carb cleaner, soaked jets/airbleeds, and blew everything off with my air compressor.
I put the carb back on my car and was able to start it up. I went for a drive and it started bogging. It died and I pushed it home.
When I would turn the key to on it would just dump gas into the primarys, and the secondaries would also get filled with fuel. I took the intake/carb off, and checked the floats. It was at ~55 so I moved it to 51mm. Took the air vent solenoid apart, it looked good.
Put everything back on, and I was able to get it to start up and idle by increasing the idle (It was around 900) I let it run for about 8 minutes and it seemed ok.
Took it out and after 5 minutes or so it starting bogging again, got it onto my street to roll it home. With the air filter off and the key on gas is still continuing to dump into the primaries and now secondaries. Especially the one closest to the rear of the car.
So now it's basically doing the same thing as before, just letting too much gas through.
I wasn't able to unscrew the needle seats when I did the rebuild because they seemed stuck in there. Is using new needles with old seats causing this issue? Should I switch back to my old needles, or should I take the airhorn off a spare carb I have to see if I can get the seats out of it, and then clean and use that one?
Thank you guys for your help! My pregnant girlfriend crashed her car after a blowout and now my Rx-7 running is a necessity.
#3
vrrmmmmm
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I'm 100 percent positive jets are in the correct place. When I open her up again tomorrow I will verify.
Regardless of if they're mixed or not, the carb shouldn't be continuing to dump fuel, right? If I would have left the key on/motor off, it would have eventually overflowed. That's how much fuel is running through.
Thank you.
#4
This is a common problem with fresh rebuilds using new needles. Taken from Sterling's site:
I use a razor knife to scrape material off until its smooth, I could never get the burnish thing to work, but maybe I wasn't doing it properly. Anyway that will fix your flooding problems
Before installing the needles, here's a tip that can help you avoid needle the binding that causes the flooding that so often follows a fresh rebuild;
The seats have very small, nearly microscopic concentric tooling marks on the inside. Again, on a microscopic level, this makes for a very rough surface that's not conducive to having another brass part slide easily across it's surface. While there's not much we can do about the inside of the needle seats, we can do something to the needles themselves to decrease the friction as they move in and out of the seats. The seats are not polished inside, but the surface is at least consisten t, and there is no way to polish the insides to that same consistency, even with my watchmakers lathe. Please do not try. While polishing the insides of the cylindrical needle seats sounds like a great idea, it's a fruitless, messy effort that won't yield results worth the time. They can even end up sticking worse.
But what you can do that's very quick, easy & effective, is burnish the four corners of each needle. The needles are "tumble polished" after they are spit out of a manufacturing machine, and as a result they have a matt finish. This is where the friction comes from.
Coat the outside of the needle in about a finger-print's worth of oil, and take something small and highly polished and lightly rub it along the shaft on each corner very lightly. You should start to see the corner get brighter. This is burnishing the surface, and it's the same as "breaking in" the part. Try not to rub hard as that can cause tiny gouges in the surface, defeating what your trying to accomplish. All in all, this process should need more than about 4 or 5 minutes, but it can save an hour or more of aggravation later on.
The seats have very small, nearly microscopic concentric tooling marks on the inside. Again, on a microscopic level, this makes for a very rough surface that's not conducive to having another brass part slide easily across it's surface. While there's not much we can do about the inside of the needle seats, we can do something to the needles themselves to decrease the friction as they move in and out of the seats. The seats are not polished inside, but the surface is at least consisten t, and there is no way to polish the insides to that same consistency, even with my watchmakers lathe. Please do not try. While polishing the insides of the cylindrical needle seats sounds like a great idea, it's a fruitless, messy effort that won't yield results worth the time. They can even end up sticking worse.
But what you can do that's very quick, easy & effective, is burnish the four corners of each needle. The needles are "tumble polished" after they are spit out of a manufacturing machine, and as a result they have a matt finish. This is where the friction comes from.
Coat the outside of the needle in about a finger-print's worth of oil, and take something small and highly polished and lightly rub it along the shaft on each corner very lightly. You should start to see the corner get brighter. This is burnishing the surface, and it's the same as "breaking in" the part. Try not to rub hard as that can cause tiny gouges in the surface, defeating what your trying to accomplish. All in all, this process should need more than about 4 or 5 minutes, but it can save an hour or more of aggravation later on.
#5
vrrmmmmm
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This is a common problem with fresh rebuilds using new needles. Taken from Sterling's site:
I use a razor knife to scrape material off until its smooth, I could never get the burnish thing to work, but maybe I wasn't doing it properly. Anyway that will fix your flooding problems
I use a razor knife to scrape material off until its smooth, I could never get the burnish thing to work, but maybe I wasn't doing it properly. Anyway that will fix your flooding problems
#6
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SAME EXACT PROBLEM I HAD WITH MY REBUILD. All and all...i ended up taking my carb off 4 times toying with it because for whatever reason I had different issues. This issue was/can be cured by vacuum leak fixing...involving how the carb is seated (properly or not) and whether or not the emissions/running lines are properly aligned, tightened, hooked up, capped etc.
I wish that my input was more specific, but for me I think I ended up having two problems at once from time to time, and fixing one hurt the other. Never easy to tell what was goin on exactly until I slowed down and relaxed...went over everything...and capped emissions lol.
Runs awesome now...have mechanical secondaries...and the clutch started to go bad while it was sitting OOOO
I wish that my input was more specific, but for me I think I ended up having two problems at once from time to time, and fixing one hurt the other. Never easy to tell what was goin on exactly until I slowed down and relaxed...went over everything...and capped emissions lol.
Runs awesome now...have mechanical secondaries...and the clutch started to go bad while it was sitting OOOO
#7
Full Member
I had the same symptoms, but convinced myself I found a different cause and cure.
I messed with those needle valves and floats so much I must have "Broken in" the needles.
I thought the cure was with the possitioning of the little spring retainer on the needle valve. When I put them at 90o to the float pivot pin the flooding went away???
I messed with those needle valves and floats so much I must have "Broken in" the needles.
I thought the cure was with the possitioning of the little spring retainer on the needle valve. When I put them at 90o to the float pivot pin the flooding went away???
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#8
vrrmmmmm
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SAME EXACT PROBLEM I HAD WITH MY REBUILD. All and all...i ended up taking my carb off 4 times toying with it because for whatever reason I had different issues. This issue was/can be cured by vacuum leak fixing...involving how the carb is seated (properly or not) and whether or not the emissions/running lines are properly aligned, tightened, hooked up, capped etc.
I wish that my input was more specific, but for me I think I ended up having two problems at once from time to time, and fixing one hurt the other. Never easy to tell what was goin on exactly until I slowed down and relaxed...went over everything...and capped emissions lol.
Runs awesome now...have mechanical secondaries...and the clutch started to go bad while it was sitting OOOO
I wish that my input was more specific, but for me I think I ended up having two problems at once from time to time, and fixing one hurt the other. Never easy to tell what was goin on exactly until I slowed down and relaxed...went over everything...and capped emissions lol.
Runs awesome now...have mechanical secondaries...and the clutch started to go bad while it was sitting OOOO
Im going to follow Onieros/Sterlings advice. Let you know in a few minutes
#10
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Sticky needles... been there several times. Most irritating.
I did have one case where a specific new needle just would not seat in the seat it was packaged with. I swapped the needles between seats, and the problem went away.
The forces involved in moving the needles are tiny. Takes very little to make them hang up in the bore.
I did have one case where a specific new needle just would not seat in the seat it was packaged with. I swapped the needles between seats, and the problem went away.
The forces involved in moving the needles are tiny. Takes very little to make them hang up in the bore.
#11
vrrmmmmm
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I razor bladed the corners of the needle and it seems to be working now. I only went for a little drive because I don't want to push her too far. The last two times it seemed after driving for 5 minutes it started flooding again.
Is there any other way I can test the needles wont continue to stick without driving?
Is there any other way I can test the needles wont continue to stick without driving?
#12
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Not really, no... idling in place may tell you, but there's no guarantee.
Many times, just rapping sharply on top the carb with a plastic screwdriver handle, right on top the banjo bolts, will clear a stuck needle. Might save you a lot of hassle to try that first.
Generally, once they start working okay, they stay fine forever.
Many times, just rapping sharply on top the carb with a plastic screwdriver handle, right on top the banjo bolts, will clear a stuck needle. Might save you a lot of hassle to try that first.
Generally, once they start working okay, they stay fine forever.
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