Oil (?) on top of the engine - passenger side?
11-20-12, 08:18 AM
#1
Oil (?) on top of the engine - passenger side?
Hi.
I've tried searching for "wet on top of engine" and "oil leak" and so forth. I thought I'd just ask.
I recently bought a 1985 RX-7 S (12a). It is all stock. Has 73,*** miles on it. The previous owner stated that the cold assist coolant would sometimes leak very, very slightly. I've not really noticed any, and there is a mark on the cold assist coolant tank showing where the level has been. (tape mark).
My question.....the top of the engine, beneath the "rat's nest" appears to be wet. I stuck a toothbrush down there to try and get an idea for what it might be. (All the hoses, etc. are in the way. Like I said - stock). The gunk appears oily, but it's hard to tell.
Any ideas? Trouble brewing?
thanks!
Jonathan (in the Raleigh Durham area, if anyone is nearby!)
I've tried searching for "wet on top of engine" and "oil leak" and so forth. I thought I'd just ask.
I recently bought a 1985 RX-7 S (12a). It is all stock. Has 73,*** miles on it. The previous owner stated that the cold assist coolant would sometimes leak very, very slightly. I've not really noticed any, and there is a mark on the cold assist coolant tank showing where the level has been. (tape mark).
My question.....the top of the engine, beneath the "rat's nest" appears to be wet. I stuck a toothbrush down there to try and get an idea for what it might be. (All the hoses, etc. are in the way. Like I said - stock). The gunk appears oily, but it's hard to tell.
Any ideas? Trouble brewing?
thanks!
Jonathan (in the Raleigh Durham area, if anyone is nearby!)
11-20-12, 08:37 AM
#2
Could be the coolant ports to the intake manifold. Are you sure its oil, not antifreeze? Can you get a few drops and mix it with either water or oil to see if it mixes? Do you need to add coolant once in awhile?
If so, its a fairly straight forward fix, although with the stock set up there will be a lot of stuff that has to come off to get to the intake manifold. A good way to get to know the car, though.
If so, its a fairly straight forward fix, although with the stock set up there will be a lot of stuff that has to come off to get to the intake manifold. A good way to get to know the car, though.
11-20-12, 07:58 PM
#3
Uhm..... Hard to tell if it's antifreeze or oil. The area is dirty and a bit grimy, so I expect whatever is there, it has an oily tinge to it. That said, I do smell a bit of coolant from time to time, so maybe that is my problem. I haven't added any coolant, but I suppose it could be from the sub-zero system, too? As an aside, looking in the coolant overflow bottle (for the real coolant, not the subzero thingy) I see a few flakes floating around. Trouble? Normal? It is 27 years old, after all. (Ah, to be 27 again!)
I suppose there is a good write up, hopefully with pictures for those of us that are visual learners, on here somewhere about how to change said gasket? Is this something that I should be worried about?
Also, and I don't know if this is critical, I noticed a small, and I mean small, amount of oil in the air filter box (the blue, round part). Box? Container? Airbox? Not sure if that's related or normal or what. I realize we're supposed to be burning a tad bit of oil, but just wondering if this is something to be concerned about?
Oh, lastly. (really) When I use the choke, I usually pull it out until the car is turning about 1500rpm. I then let it warm up for about 1-2 minutes, max. I then drive slowly and carefully until we're nice and warm. Usually, I'll just push the choke in before it pulls itself in. Lately, I've done this and then about 10 - 15 minutes down the road, the choke will push itself OUT partway. Not quite enough to engage, but I can't get it to stay in. Weird? Related to anything above? Ghost in the machine?
thanks! While I've had an RX-7 before, it was years ago. I didn't do my own work then, but I'm hoping to learn enough now.
I suppose there is a good write up, hopefully with pictures for those of us that are visual learners, on here somewhere about how to change said gasket? Is this something that I should be worried about?
Also, and I don't know if this is critical, I noticed a small, and I mean small, amount of oil in the air filter box (the blue, round part). Box? Container? Airbox? Not sure if that's related or normal or what. I realize we're supposed to be burning a tad bit of oil, but just wondering if this is something to be concerned about?
Oh, lastly. (really) When I use the choke, I usually pull it out until the car is turning about 1500rpm. I then let it warm up for about 1-2 minutes, max. I then drive slowly and carefully until we're nice and warm. Usually, I'll just push the choke in before it pulls itself in. Lately, I've done this and then about 10 - 15 minutes down the road, the choke will push itself OUT partway. Not quite enough to engage, but I can't get it to stay in. Weird? Related to anything above? Ghost in the machine?
thanks! While I've had an RX-7 before, it was years ago. I didn't do my own work then, but I'm hoping to learn enough now.
11-20-12, 08:01 PM
#4
a good place to start is to just delete the sub zero system and try to dry off the top of the engine as best you can.
more than likely it is the crankcase ventilation lines dripping oil on top of the engine. a vacuum hose job with silicone lines should fix that.
more than likely it is the crankcase ventilation lines dripping oil on top of the engine. a vacuum hose job with silicone lines should fix that.
11-21-12, 05:38 AM
#5
There are 2 clear-ish plastic/nylon lines running up the RT FRONT of the motor over to the DRIVER side of the carb. These are oil lines that direct oil into the carb from the oil pan via a metering pump on the front cover. These lines each are just pinched to the carb nozzles with a wire clamp. Maybe one/both are loose or off? that would leak small amounts of oil onto the top of the motor...
Cold start assist tank is designed to inject COOLANT into the engine via the carb when very cold (like prob colder than you get in Carolinas) via temp circuit and the pump on the tank. It runs a line to the carb. Is the line attached? Sounds like the tank is empty anyway, which should be fine for where you live. Just don't fill it.
Choke: it works on a magnet that is electrified via a circuit to the water pump (sender there). I believe that once the engine is warmed UP, the circuit is broken and the magnet releases, re-TRACTING the choke to the OFF position. If its working its way open, maybe either an electrical fault or the magnet switch/choke **** assy is defective? Have never heard the prob you are having. Usually the prob is the magnet releases either too soon, or never engages at all, meaning the choke won't stay OUT. Source a replacement choke assy. Used in ALL 12A 78-85 RX7s and pretty easy to find.
Stu Aull
80GS
Alaska
Cold start assist tank is designed to inject COOLANT into the engine via the carb when very cold (like prob colder than you get in Carolinas) via temp circuit and the pump on the tank. It runs a line to the carb. Is the line attached? Sounds like the tank is empty anyway, which should be fine for where you live. Just don't fill it.
Choke: it works on a magnet that is electrified via a circuit to the water pump (sender there). I believe that once the engine is warmed UP, the circuit is broken and the magnet releases, re-TRACTING the choke to the OFF position. If its working its way open, maybe either an electrical fault or the magnet switch/choke **** assy is defective? Have never heard the prob you are having. Usually the prob is the magnet releases either too soon, or never engages at all, meaning the choke won't stay OUT. Source a replacement choke assy. Used in ALL 12A 78-85 RX7s and pretty easy to find.
Stu Aull
80GS
Alaska
11-21-12, 08:30 AM
#6
We're certainly not as cold as Alaska! I checked the oil lines this morning. They appear to be nicely attached to the carb nozzles. I ran my finger around them and found a little dirt and grime, but nothing wet. So, I guess that's a good sign.
The cold start assist / sub zero tank is about 1/2 full. I've had the car a little over two months. I've not added any thing to this tank, but the PO did mark a line on the tank w/ a piece of tape to indicate the level in the tank when I bought it. It is certainly a little bit lower now.
How would I identify the "crankcase ventilation lines" mentioned by RotaryEvolution above? And, if that's not the case, but it's more of what Ray Green mentions, how do I go about even getting to the intake manifold gasket? I assume what everybody calls the "rat's nest" will have to come off. If I'm careful, is this something a semi-mechanically-inclined person can do?
If I'm looking at the crankcase ventilation lines or the manifold gasket as an issue, are either of these critical?
Lastly, on the choke thingy. I didn't use the choke this morning. Took two tries, but we started up and holding the throttle at about 1200 - 1500 RPM seemed to be okay. After about 45 seconds, maybe a minute, we were off and slowly going. Of course, it was decent weather here this morning... 47 degrees. =)
The cold start assist / sub zero tank is about 1/2 full. I've had the car a little over two months. I've not added any thing to this tank, but the PO did mark a line on the tank w/ a piece of tape to indicate the level in the tank when I bought it. It is certainly a little bit lower now.
How would I identify the "crankcase ventilation lines" mentioned by RotaryEvolution above? And, if that's not the case, but it's more of what Ray Green mentions, how do I go about even getting to the intake manifold gasket? I assume what everybody calls the "rat's nest" will have to come off. If I'm careful, is this something a semi-mechanically-inclined person can do?
If I'm looking at the crankcase ventilation lines or the manifold gasket as an issue, are either of these critical?
Lastly, on the choke thingy. I didn't use the choke this morning. Took two tries, but we started up and holding the throttle at about 1200 - 1500 RPM seemed to be okay. After about 45 seconds, maybe a minute, we were off and slowly going. Of course, it was decent weather here this morning... 47 degrees. =)
11-21-12, 08:55 AM
#7
I'd do a little more work on the diagnosis before planning a repair yet, it still could be any one of the several things mentioned so far.
One thing that would help is to use some engine degreaser to clean up under the hood, especially in the area where you are observing the leak. Spray it down real well with the degreaser, use a paint brush to work it around, then wash it off with a garden hose and modest pressure. Try to avoid the distributor (you can put a plastic bag over it), but pretty much everything else can take a good soaking. DON'T USE A PRESSURE WASHER!
Finally, blow out any remaining water that will collect in those little recesses on the rotor housings under the carb. (Also hit the dizzy and any electrical connections that look wet). Now, with it nice and clean and dry, take a close look after driving it a bit and watch for the liquid to appear. If it's coolant, you should see the green color (assuming you coolant is reasonably fresh). If it's oil, it will look brown or black.
One thing that could simplify the situation is just remove the cold start assist system, that's really there for northern climates. The fact that you have a southern car and nobody has done this already and that you've still got the rat's indicates you have a very unmolested FB. Nice.
One last suggestion, takes some pictures before and after, we'd love to see your new toy!
One thing that would help is to use some engine degreaser to clean up under the hood, especially in the area where you are observing the leak. Spray it down real well with the degreaser, use a paint brush to work it around, then wash it off with a garden hose and modest pressure. Try to avoid the distributor (you can put a plastic bag over it), but pretty much everything else can take a good soaking. DON'T USE A PRESSURE WASHER!
Finally, blow out any remaining water that will collect in those little recesses on the rotor housings under the carb. (Also hit the dizzy and any electrical connections that look wet). Now, with it nice and clean and dry, take a close look after driving it a bit and watch for the liquid to appear. If it's coolant, you should see the green color (assuming you coolant is reasonably fresh). If it's oil, it will look brown or black.
One thing that could simplify the situation is just remove the cold start assist system, that's really there for northern climates. The fact that you have a southern car and nobody has done this already and that you've still got the rat's indicates you have a very unmolested FB. Nice.
One last suggestion, takes some pictures before and after, we'd love to see your new toy!
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11-21-12, 12:41 PM
#8
Agreed. Don't use a pressure washer! I've torn down more water damaged engines due to the previous idiot, I mean owner using a pressure washer, than from any other reason. So many dead 12As! Enough to make the little bit of Ray Green in each and every one of us cry like that Indian in the commercial from the 70s.
11-21-12, 12:50 PM
#9
Good suggestions.
Will any de-greaser work? Like purple power, or whatever it is? Will I damage the aluminum stuff?
I figured a pressure washer was a no-no, in spite of my co-worker insisting pressure washers are great for engine cleaning.
And yes, the car is pretty much all original. I keep turning over in my mind...do I keep it all original? Do I do something else? For now, I'll keep it original while I decide!
Will any de-greaser work? Like purple power, or whatever it is? Will I damage the aluminum stuff?
I figured a pressure washer was a no-no, in spite of my co-worker insisting pressure washers are great for engine cleaning.
And yes, the car is pretty much all original. I keep turning over in my mind...do I keep it all original? Do I do something else? For now, I'll keep it original while I decide!
11-21-12, 01:51 PM
#10
Jeff, do you have a link to that Indian commercial?
JB, I like the Autozone or WalMart stuff, about half the price so you can use twice as much, which more than makes up for any difference in quality (if there is any) from the Purple Power products.
These degreasers are essentially kerosene based solvents, mild on plastic and rubber, non-corrosive to paint. So just use a little common sense in not "over cleaning" some of those more delicate and electrical/ignition parts and just enough hosing to remove the degreaser and you can go to town.
If you really get carried away you can do down by the starter (careful, lots of little wires) and the undercarriage. A hot detergent bath, followed by another rinse and a light spray of lubricant will make under the hood look like a whole new car.
And should be very helpful in locating were those errant fluid(s) are coming from. Given the virginal condition of your car, I'm betting there are at least two sources.
JB, I like the Autozone or WalMart stuff, about half the price so you can use twice as much, which more than makes up for any difference in quality (if there is any) from the Purple Power products.
These degreasers are essentially kerosene based solvents, mild on plastic and rubber, non-corrosive to paint. So just use a little common sense in not "over cleaning" some of those more delicate and electrical/ignition parts and just enough hosing to remove the degreaser and you can go to town.
If you really get carried away you can do down by the starter (careful, lots of little wires) and the undercarriage. A hot detergent bath, followed by another rinse and a light spray of lubricant will make under the hood look like a whole new car.
And should be very helpful in locating were those errant fluid(s) are coming from. Given the virginal condition of your car, I'm betting there are at least two sources.
11-22-12, 11:54 PM
#13
Good suggestions.
Will any de-greaser work? Like purple power, or whatever it is? Will I damage the aluminum stuff?
I figured a pressure washer was a no-no, in spite of my co-worker insisting pressure washers are great for engine cleaning.
And yes, the car is pretty much all original. I keep turning over in my mind...do I keep it all original? Do I do something else? For now, I'll keep it original while I decide!
Will any de-greaser work? Like purple power, or whatever it is? Will I damage the aluminum stuff?
I figured a pressure washer was a no-no, in spite of my co-worker insisting pressure washers are great for engine cleaning.
And yes, the car is pretty much all original. I keep turning over in my mind...do I keep it all original? Do I do something else? For now, I'll keep it original while I decide!
Be wary of breaking any connectors on the Nest. Annoyingly fragile. Snap some photos and disconnect and pull the whole unit off for a proper clean-up. Just make sure to protect any opened connections from the clean up.
Stu Aull
80GS
Alaska
11-24-12, 09:43 PM
#18
acdelco d1906 Nkg 49034
having such a shiny 27 year old car like that, I can now see why you are concerned about a little oil on the engine block. But what does the undercarriage look like?
Mine started leaking oil in 1995 on top of the engine, the engine failed in 2004. The undercarriage was clean and shiny as new where the oil had spread. the heat shields were caked with 1/4 th inch oily residue, hello fire!! They had to be scraped with a putty knife.
My car has been titled in Cali (benign car environment), NJ (hello salt snow ice rain and humidity, and really shitty back stabbing sabotaging professional mechanics), TX (hello heat), and AL (hello rain and humidity). Point is, the oil leak was a good thing that protected the undercarriage from harsh environments .
Mine started leaking oil in 1995 on top of the engine, the engine failed in 2004. The undercarriage was clean and shiny as new where the oil had spread. the heat shields were caked with 1/4 th inch oily residue, hello fire!! They had to be scraped with a putty knife.
My car has been titled in Cali (benign car environment), NJ (hello salt snow ice rain and humidity, and really shitty back stabbing sabotaging professional mechanics), TX (hello heat), and AL (hello rain and humidity). Point is, the oil leak was a good thing that protected the undercarriage from harsh environments .
Last edited by midnight mechanic; 11-24-12 at 09:46 PM.
11-24-12, 10:20 PM
#19
Long story short (maybe). I had a 1984 RX-7 as my first car (in 1998). I drove it through high school and college. I sold it in 1995 and have been looking for another ever since. In 2000, I found one, but we'd just bought a house. Found another a few years later, but we'd just had a baby. Finally...found this one and with permission from the Supreme Commander, the purchase was made. As I said, mine was a 1984. This is a 1985. My original RX-7 was also red, and was the S model. Other than being an 85 instead of 84, this one is exactly like my first. Well, this one is in better shape. I fear my first one is probably one with the earth now. =(
The bit I know about the history of this car is that it was originally purchased by a guy in Anchorage (!) who was very soon transfered to Washington, DC. The orignal owner had the car for a total of three years or so, and then it was purchased by the gentleman who owned it before me. Until I brought it to NC, it had spent the majority of it's life in VA. It has a rust preventative coating underneath, which I suspect is not so good any more. Both headlights have been replaced, and the clutch cylinder was replaced (I think). Other than routine maintenance, that's it.
I may have paid a tad too much for it, or maybe not, but everytime I get in the car, it's like being in a time machine. So, I think it was worth it! Well, assuming the bit of fluid on the engine is nothing critical. Of course, some of the work I've seen on this forum makes working on these cars look like a breeze. Most of you seem to have more wrench experience than I do, but I think I can learn.
The bit I know about the history of this car is that it was originally purchased by a guy in Anchorage (!) who was very soon transfered to Washington, DC. The orignal owner had the car for a total of three years or so, and then it was purchased by the gentleman who owned it before me. Until I brought it to NC, it had spent the majority of it's life in VA. It has a rust preventative coating underneath, which I suspect is not so good any more. Both headlights have been replaced, and the clutch cylinder was replaced (I think). Other than routine maintenance, that's it.
I may have paid a tad too much for it, or maybe not, but everytime I get in the car, it's like being in a time machine. So, I think it was worth it! Well, assuming the bit of fluid on the engine is nothing critical. Of course, some of the work I've seen on this forum makes working on these cars look like a breeze. Most of you seem to have more wrench experience than I do, but I think I can learn.
Last edited by jbherri2; 11-24-12 at 10:25 PM.
11-25-12, 08:10 AM
#22
Actually, I85 between Atlanta and Durham defines the Rotary Axis of the Universe. More rotaries and rotor heads within 100 miles of that highway than anywhere else in the world.
https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=D...t=h&mra=ls&z=7
We have lots of events, you might want to take your new toy up to the Smokies for one of the Mountain Days.
That thing sure is pretty, I don't think its possible to have paid to much for it. Makes a true blue rotor head want to get in there and restore what little details aren't already perfect back to showroom condition.
Starting with that fluid leak (I'm revising my earlier estimate of multiple leaks down to one).
https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=D...t=h&mra=ls&z=7
We have lots of events, you might want to take your new toy up to the Smokies for one of the Mountain Days.
That thing sure is pretty, I don't think its possible to have paid to much for it. Makes a true blue rotor head want to get in there and restore what little details aren't already perfect back to showroom condition.
Starting with that fluid leak (I'm revising my earlier estimate of multiple leaks down to one).
11-25-12, 09:42 PM
#23
Thanks for the nice comments. I hope to clean the top of the engine this week. Any pointers on the best way to actually get at that area? I gather I can actually remove the entire rat's nest w/o much worry, if I'm careful? And then get it all back together? Oh, boy....
11-25-12, 10:23 PM
#24
A paint brush to move the degreaser around the rat's nest parts is a lot easier, remember your immediate goal is to get things cleaned up so you can identify where that fluid leak is coming from. I wouldn't mess with the nest until you know where the fluid leak is.
You should also diagnose vacuum leaks by spraying the nest and other connections to the carb with starter fluid while the engine is running and listen for changes in pitch, which indicate a vacuum leak. If you find one, then just fix that one, don't renew the whole nest.
You should also diagnose vacuum leaks by spraying the nest and other connections to the carb with starter fluid while the engine is running and listen for changes in pitch, which indicate a vacuum leak. If you find one, then just fix that one, don't renew the whole nest.
11-29-12, 08:18 AM
#25
So, to update, but only slightly. I did my first oil change on the RX-7 since purchasing it in September. Slid the jack under the cross member, and lifted it enough to work the ramps under the front wheels, then removed the jack. I was surprised at how clean most things were under the car. I mean, to be 27 years old. (Oh, to be 27 again....)
Here's what I have noticed so far, some maybe related to my fluid chase, some not.
1) There appears to be a bit of oil around parts of the top portion of the carb. Is this normal?
2) Whatever fluid has leaked (is leaking?) can be seen on top of the engine, but WAAAY down under the rat's nest, sort of around where the intake meets the passenger side of the engine. I've got my Simple Green and I think I'm all hot-to-trot on attempting to clean the area, but will I damage all these little wires/connectors when I start going to town with the cleaner, followed by water?
Look, it's decently clean around the starter/transmission. Who knew?
I did notice this black rubber cover thingy has some oil(?) around the edges. Any issue there?
Thanks. I sure wish this site had been around back when I had my first RX-7, but that was long before Mr. Gore invented the internet!
Here's what I have noticed so far, some maybe related to my fluid chase, some not.
1) There appears to be a bit of oil around parts of the top portion of the carb. Is this normal?
2) Whatever fluid has leaked (is leaking?) can be seen on top of the engine, but WAAAY down under the rat's nest, sort of around where the intake meets the passenger side of the engine. I've got my Simple Green and I think I'm all hot-to-trot on attempting to clean the area, but will I damage all these little wires/connectors when I start going to town with the cleaner, followed by water?
Look, it's decently clean around the starter/transmission. Who knew?
I did notice this black rubber cover thingy has some oil(?) around the edges. Any issue there?
Thanks. I sure wish this site had been around back when I had my first RX-7, but that was long before Mr. Gore invented the internet!