Ok i have a car that smokes all the time even when engine is hot. It smokes alot enof to kill some one!!!! The question is what things could make this happen? also is there a test to see if its the oil o ring or the oil control rings? nexed is there any ways of trying to bring the engine back? like vacume on the oil tank Etc
thinker or thiner oil oil additives

symtoms are
1)smokes all the time
2)burns about a qurt of oil in 2min
3)no power at all
4)trys to stall on idel

When i serched i only found cars that smoke on start up and go away when engine is hot.

 

Oil control rings are probably shot, or one or more is jammed in it's bore... or you've split a housing internally. The "o ring leak" people talk about here (also known as the "leak of death") is an exterior leak; it is on the wrong side of the water jacket to leak into the engine.

If you're truly burning "a quart of oil in 2 minutes" and it's not actually leaking out somewhere, you've most likely got a serious internal problem that is not going to fix itself any way other than rebuilding the engine.

There's a TINY chance that soaking the crankcase and combustion chambers with a carbon solvent like seafoam might help if it's a jammed oil ring, but that's real low-odds, and if you've got that level of buildup it's going to be a temp fix at best. But it is cheaper and easier than rebuilding.

Sad to say, but IMO you're probably about to learn how to rebuild a rotary.

 

Can you say for sure its oil smoke? Might be hemorrhaging coolant too i suppose. But yeah, I'd say pull your engine apart and see if its worth rebuilding, otherwise you might as well but a new motor.

 

The engine is dying, time for a rebuild before you ruin some internals...

 

so its the oil control rings and not the rotor o ring?

 

The "rotor o-rings" ride on the metal oil-control rings; either one failing will cause you to burn a lot of oil, and both require a teardown to get to them.

The O-rings are cheaper but not real failure-prone; normally you replace the o-rings when you replace oil rings.

 

My old 12a was smoking so bad it was certainly not driveable. It left such a heavy smoke screen that I literally shut down a major interstate while everyone waited for the smoke to clean.

I used 2 quarts of Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer, and it reduced the smoking to barely noticeable levels. I ended up getting another 20,000 miles out of that motor before it coughed up an apex seal at 213,000 miles.

Might be worth giving it a shot, if you don't mind running the motor into the ground. Otherwise, like has already been stated, rebuild the motor now while you still have some useable parts. Good luck!




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now thats what im talking about (Kentetsu)this is what i was looking for some input on what i can try before i go and pull the engine!!!!! I gess some people just have the cash to pulll an engine and rebuild it. but i dont shure the F*** dont so im looking for creative ideas and people who try things just for the hell of it. I mean what could happen ether it works or i dosent. ether way i dont lose much trying. And mybe just maybe i can git it going again. so who ever is out there and wants to give me ideas send them my way.

Things that im trying
Day 1
1) put (Gold Eagle/16 oz. engine oil treatment) full can in
2) also put (cas Oil/32 oz. engine oil stop leak) 16oz in
i ran the engine tell it got to operating temp(15 min) smoke has decreased a small amount. my oil PSI went up a small amout> This is a good thing
after i got yelled at by the nabor i shut it down
Day 2
4) put mmo in oil along with oil and more Lucas started up ran for about 5min
5) then pulled spark plug and put mmo in the hole

So what i think is that the glod eagle and lucas oil will swell up the o ring and if thats the problem than that sould improve on my oil problem. next the mmo will be all over were the leak is and eat up any carbon that may be effecting the oil control rings(aka side seals)
Day 3 will come

 

To each their own... I hope you have success this way. Everybody's money and workspace situation is different.

I just find it cheaper in the long run to actually fix the problem, since with rotaries, running them with a problem until they actually stop, usually ends up taking you from a rebuild seal kit plus the problem part (couple hundred bucks plus a week's work), to having to replace a lot of very expensive and sometimes hard to find parts. Rotaries tend to take a lot with them when something hard fails.

Or you end up spending $$$ on a used engine with who knows how much if any life left... and in six months are right back in the same boat.

Cost of a rebuild gasket kit is a lot less than a kit plus housing(s) and hard seals, and maybe a rotor.

Especially true for 12A's in Calfornia, as good housings are rare as hell now.

But truly, good luck -- anything that works, works.

 

well you do have a point!!! but the only thing that couses rotor houing damage is apex seal braking,lack of oil, last but not least over heating or over reving. none of this will couse burining of oil like im having. the faulers that your talk about, that would be wise to fix with a rebuild are leaking water seals low compression.
alos this car i have no idea what the history is on engine i just bot the car. The car has 215k on it and he said that they put a engine with 88k in. looks like somone did some work to it but i have no idea what> he had no proff of an engine swap. so i dont think that what im doing is any harm to the engine. The mmo in the oil might harm if i put a load on the engine it will wear out the bearings but other than that i think im good> i mean corect me if im wrong

 

Sorry for hijacking.

Has anybody tried WYNNS OIL LEAK STOP?

 

MMO won't damage bearings unless you replace ALL of your oil with it. My brother and I both had Infiniti Q45's with MMO replacing 1 qt of oil with 1 qt of MMO on every oil change, and after tearing apart his engine to replace timing chain tensioners, it was honey brown all over the inside at 210k miles. I would say that MMO helps to eat carbon and get it into the flow such that a filter can pick it up.

As to rotary engines and MMO, I thing the MMO can be a little too harsh for the internals of a high-mileage rotary engine. Back at 192k miles (original engine, 13b in an -SE), I did the MMO trick after getting 'running-on-one-rotor' symptoms and it definitely feed up a stuck apex seal. Unfortunately, it also ate away the 'good carbon' (I'll call it) which must have formed along the tracks of the Oil Control Seals at the center of each rotor, because immediately thereafter, I got oil smoke on cold start - all the way to where I am now at 206k miles...

In hindsight, I guess I had to do it to free up that apex seal, but unfortunately, it caused my long-standing smoke on cold start issue.

I'm driving the -SE to work today, and I'm already dreading having to start it up after letting it sit all day long; my workplace is going to look like a scene out of Apocalypse Now when I leave...

 

ok good thing to know don't use mmo unless you have a problem thank you for the input nice to have people with some experience. Thank you again

 

my car smokes all the time when i get to start it up but nothing seems to be wrong with it, it drives fine it revs fine once its warmed up but its not burning up alot of oil either my car has 136,000 rebuilt miles i think my squirters are going bad but i really dont know? it stops smoking once its warmed up its just annoying

 

Not exactly. Pretty much any compression seal failure (apex, corner, side) has a high likelihood of damaging rotor housings as the broken bits try to exit.

But it's a matter of the oil leakage causing the other problems, not the problems causing the leak.

The problem with hard-part failure in the rotary engine is one of cascading failures; part one breaks, and before you have time to do anything about it, parts two and three get taken out by the consequences of part one's failure, and so on.

Failure of oil control can lead, sometime quickly and sometimes slowly, to failure of other parts.

I don't think that's too likely to get fracture of a failing oil ring; they tend to go out slowly and in a predictable way, and it's really rare to hear of one actually fracturing, since they are not under that much stress. They just slowly wear themselves (and the side housing working faces) away, to the point that oil blowby becomes intolerable. Because of the angled shape of the oil ring contact surface, the more it wears down the faster it wears both itself and the side housing. That's why the main pass/fail test for re-using them is based on the width of the contact surface, not the thickness.

But burning excess oil craps up the rotor face and compression seal (side, corner, apex) grooves. And that leads to seal failure eventually if it gets bad enough.

Crapped up seal grooves increases friction and therefore heat on the seals and springs, and higher friction against the housings. Eventually you get either a carbon-lock or a fractured seal.

Crapped up rotor faces, left to get bad enough, will lead to detonation or pre-ignition (the two main causes of apex seal fracture), and can even lead to scoring of the rotor housing through the carbon buildup actually rubbing on the housing surface.

If you can get the oil burning under control with 'liquid therapy,' you can stop that stuff from progressing. You can reverse the buildup issues with products like seafoam once the leak is under control, too.

 

very nice right up Thank you i stand corected!!!! I can tell you know your stuff its cool to talk to some one who knows whats going on inside an engine. Yha it sounds like a rotory is like the jet engine at work they will have one part go out and take the whole engine with it. somtimes the aircraft itself. but all in all very good points