Oil cooler idea. Suggestions please
03-14-06, 02:09 PM
#1
Oil cooler idea. Suggestions please
I have been trying to come up with some good ways to increase the cooling in preparation for my turbo setup.
I was thinking that A very simple way could be, instead of retrofitting a bigger radiatior, just getting an auxiliary radiator, like the kits jc whitney sells. Cheap and easy.
Second Idea. An oil to water cooler is a great idea, except the water is almost as hot at the oil, so there isnt an huge amount of heat transfer. But if the water were cooler, than there would be much better tranfer. Most of us already have water to oil coolers (the beehives). Imagine this. A separate little radiator (front mount) like the ones for auxiliary radiator cooling, with a small inline electric pump circulating water through to the beehive cooler (or an aftermarket type, which is pretty cheap too). I know that the water start out really cool, but eventually would get pretty hot from the oil, but I still think it would be more efficient than using the radiator fluid. I may be wrong, but what do you guys think? Better efficiency??
I was thinking that A very simple way could be, instead of retrofitting a bigger radiatior, just getting an auxiliary radiator, like the kits jc whitney sells. Cheap and easy.
Second Idea. An oil to water cooler is a great idea, except the water is almost as hot at the oil, so there isnt an huge amount of heat transfer. But if the water were cooler, than there would be much better tranfer. Most of us already have water to oil coolers (the beehives). Imagine this. A separate little radiator (front mount) like the ones for auxiliary radiator cooling, with a small inline electric pump circulating water through to the beehive cooler (or an aftermarket type, which is pretty cheap too). I know that the water start out really cool, but eventually would get pretty hot from the oil, but I still think it would be more efficient than using the radiator fluid. I may be wrong, but what do you guys think? Better efficiency??
03-14-06, 02:18 PM
#2
dude, why try to reinvent the wheel?
the stock radiator-type oil coolers are very effective at doing what they do. get rid of the beehive and get an oil cooler that mounts in front or underneath the radiator.
make sure your radiator is clean and free of leaks. depending on the power levels you're pursuing, maybe a larger aftermarket aluminum unit might be in order, but cross that bridge when you get there.
the stock radiator-type oil coolers are very effective at doing what they do. get rid of the beehive and get an oil cooler that mounts in front or underneath the radiator.
make sure your radiator is clean and free of leaks. depending on the power levels you're pursuing, maybe a larger aftermarket aluminum unit might be in order, but cross that bridge when you get there.
03-14-06, 03:31 PM
#4
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Originally Posted by theNeanderthol
Second Idea. An oil to water cooler is a great idea, except the water is almost as hot at the oil, so there isnt an huge amount of heat transfer. But if the water were cooler, than there would be much better tranfer. Most of us already have water to oil coolers (the beehives). Imagine this. A separate little radiator (front mount) like the ones for auxiliary radiator cooling, with a small inline electric pump circulating water through to the beehive cooler (or an aftermarket type, which is pretty cheap too). I know that the water start out really cool, but eventually would get pretty hot from the oil, but I still think it would be more efficient than using the radiator fluid. I may be wrong, but what do you guys think? Better efficiency??
03-14-06, 03:39 PM
#5
To add to diabolical1's comment, it would be a square wheel. Even with the extra water cooling, the baseline of you cooling media will be nearly 100* above ambient, on average. FC oil coolers are studier and easier to find than the 1st gen ones and easily retrofitted to the S2-3's, much easier than the amount of work that you are proposing.
Now if you are concerned about cooling the turbo itself, a small oil cooler on the feed side to the turbo, air cooled, may be worth cincidering.
Now if you are concerned about cooling the turbo itself, a small oil cooler on the feed side to the turbo, air cooled, may be worth cincidering.
03-14-06, 04:16 PM
#6
I've got my hands-on experience wtih dual oil coolers. Im ran my FB with a RX-4 which is much larger than 1st gens plus a a GSL-SE oil cooler running in series-parallel. I modded the SE oil t-stat so the by-pass will remain close to allow the oil to circulate thru out the core. Then I switched the SE to a RX-2 OC but this time, it was in series and I elimnated the RX-2 OC's external oil t-stat.
IMHO, it was a waste of time for N/A and daily street driver. Keep in mind that I have both autometer oil temp and water temp in the car with 16" derale E-fan.
IMHO, it was a waste of time for N/A and daily street driver. Keep in mind that I have both autometer oil temp and water temp in the car with 16" derale E-fan.
03-14-06, 05:26 PM
#7
Well the problem is I'm going with a turbo charger, and I want to keep the Air conditioning. SO I need to stick with the stock radiator, actually I'm swithing it with the smaller one with the oil to air cooler beneath, and I need the extra room upfront for the intercooler. I have 2 air to oil coolers, but I cant get them AND the intercooler And the AC condenser to fit without mods that I dont have the tools for.
So basically I'm going for an extremely space efficient setup. I mention the auxiliary radiators because they then to be only 3/4 of an inch thick, (as opposed to a much thiker oil cooler. And may fit between the condenser and the radiator, and leave the room I need for the biggest intercooler I can fit.
Do you guys think that running the water to the oil cooler in a separate system form the rad. will be any more efficient in cooling it?
So basically I'm going for an extremely space efficient setup. I mention the auxiliary radiators because they then to be only 3/4 of an inch thick, (as opposed to a much thiker oil cooler. And may fit between the condenser and the radiator, and leave the room I need for the biggest intercooler I can fit.
Do you guys think that running the water to the oil cooler in a separate system form the rad. will be any more efficient in cooling it?
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03-14-06, 06:39 PM
#8
By the time you add the intercooler, ac condenser and radiator, your air flow and cooling capacity will be diminished. Adding another cooling device will only make it worse.
I would set up the oil cooler under the intercooler and go with a tall 3 core radiator. That should give you more than enough cooling for the engine.
Check out Steve84GS's setup. I think he has his oil cooler mounted above his intercooler, along with some body mods for more air flow. Adding a turbo requires tools and modification skills, now is a good time to learn and buy/borrow the tools you need.
I'm not trying to burst your bubble here, but this idea seems to come up a lot lately, and I have yet to see a better solution than the stock 1st or 2nd gen oil cooler.
Taking into concideration your location, use of ac and the turbo, I have serious doubts that a short 3 core radiator will meet your cooling needs, go for a tall one.
I would set up the oil cooler under the intercooler and go with a tall 3 core radiator. That should give you more than enough cooling for the engine.
Check out Steve84GS's setup. I think he has his oil cooler mounted above his intercooler, along with some body mods for more air flow. Adding a turbo requires tools and modification skills, now is a good time to learn and buy/borrow the tools you need.
I'm not trying to burst your bubble here, but this idea seems to come up a lot lately, and I have yet to see a better solution than the stock 1st or 2nd gen oil cooler.
Taking into concideration your location, use of ac and the turbo, I have serious doubts that a short 3 core radiator will meet your cooling needs, go for a tall one.
03-14-06, 07:14 PM
#9
if you're SERIOUS about building this thing, try sending a PM to Directfreak and ask him how he dealt with it. i believe he retained his factory A/C AND the stock SE oil cooler and i seriously doubt that you'll be running anywhere near his power levels anytime soon.
Last edited by diabolical1; 03-14-06 at 07:22 PM.
03-14-06, 11:20 PM
#10
FB+FC=F-ME
I had zero oil cooling issues when running just the TII oil cooler on my old S4 TII setup.It works well,just get it out of the radiator's path.The stock location under the radiator,or the stock SE location work just fine.
With my S5 setup,I added a mid 80's Turbo 300ZX oil cooler after the TII cooler, just to be sure.Its about half the size of the TII cooler and fits perfectly in the chin vent off to the side.They dont have a thermostat,but I really dont think its an issue with a smaller,aux cooler.
Even turbocharged,your not going to be boosting all the time....no one can drive like that on the streets and not wreck/lose their license.Theres plenty of off-throttle time for the cooling system to get the upper hand on temps.
If your gonna be racing on a track(not drag racing)...then the additional cooling capacity of an aux. cooler is a good idea.More sustained high RPM/high boost running will tax your cooling systems.More capacity and more surface area will help give you more time before things get saturated.Make it big enough with enough airflow and itll never overheat.On a track,thats a big deal because you are almost never off the throttle for more than a few seconds.
I drive hard and push my car all the time,although I dont race and I dont abuse her.On the streets,theres just not enough "on time" to overwhelm anything,even with the big intercooler up front, partially blocking air flow to the radiator.
With my S5 setup,I added a mid 80's Turbo 300ZX oil cooler after the TII cooler, just to be sure.Its about half the size of the TII cooler and fits perfectly in the chin vent off to the side.They dont have a thermostat,but I really dont think its an issue with a smaller,aux cooler.
Even turbocharged,your not going to be boosting all the time....no one can drive like that on the streets and not wreck/lose their license.Theres plenty of off-throttle time for the cooling system to get the upper hand on temps.
If your gonna be racing on a track(not drag racing)...then the additional cooling capacity of an aux. cooler is a good idea.More sustained high RPM/high boost running will tax your cooling systems.More capacity and more surface area will help give you more time before things get saturated.Make it big enough with enough airflow and itll never overheat.On a track,thats a big deal because you are almost never off the throttle for more than a few seconds.
I drive hard and push my car all the time,although I dont race and I dont abuse her.On the streets,theres just not enough "on time" to overwhelm anything,even with the big intercooler up front, partially blocking air flow to the radiator.
03-15-06, 10:55 AM
#11
OK So how did you guys fit the oil cooler under the tall radiator? I have the tall one in my car right now, and it doesnt look like it is going to fit under it unless I switch to the smaller one.
And also, wouldnt a small auxiliary radiator effectively increase radiator capacity and surface area? That way I wont need a new, giant radiator with a new fan, shroud, etc etc. I am using the stock fan which pulls huge amounts of air, I dont really think that an auxiliary rad with an intercooler would really block a lot of air, but you guys with more experience would know better. (if it does, I have heard of them being mounted at 45 degrees somewhere else with a little e-fan.)
And also, wouldnt a small auxiliary radiator effectively increase radiator capacity and surface area? That way I wont need a new, giant radiator with a new fan, shroud, etc etc. I am using the stock fan which pulls huge amounts of air, I dont really think that an auxiliary rad with an intercooler would really block a lot of air, but you guys with more experience would know better. (if it does, I have heard of them being mounted at 45 degrees somewhere else with a little e-fan.)
