Glazedham42

iTrader: (4)

Hey fellas,

STILL working on the Auto to 5 Spd. swap. Tonight's project takes me back to the donor 5 Spd. transmission where I am cleaning up and painting the tranny, and tieing up any other loose ends. I want to have all my stuff organized and perfectly ready before I start throwing stuff back into the car. The 5 Spd. is basically ready to go except for one small problem. The shifter doesn't snap back into the neutral position like it should.

It has never felt right even when it was still in the donor car. The previous owner was pretty unmotivated and never put it back together after his failed engine swap attempt. He was discouraged and wanted rid of the car and basically hadn't done anything to it for several years. So.. I'm trying to figure out how the shifter goes back together without ever seeing one correctly installed. So please help me out here!

When I look inside where the shifter goes I can see that there is a spring type deal in there that the shifter somehow fits around before it drops into its socket inside the tranny. I'm guessing that this is what causes the shifter to snap back into the neutral position? My question is: How is this spring supposed to be configured to make this happen? Does it push against the inside of the transmission? Does the shifter fit down in between the two prongs on the spring? Am I even supposed to be seeing the spring? If anyone has any pictures of how a shifter should be correctly installed please hook me up! Or if someone could somehow take one for me I'd GREATLY appreciate it. Also, any detailed explanations would help as well.

I've looked in the Haynes manual and haven't found much of anything helpful in there yet. I don't think I'm gonna be able to figure this out on my own without ever seeing how it is supposed to work in the first place. Please help me out guys, cause I want that shifter to have the right feel when I finally get my car swapped over to a 5 spd. Thanks in advance guys! Hope to hear from many of you!

Jamie

bouis

Sounds about right. The shifter just shoves in, with the ball pushing the spring to the obvious side.

bouis

Wait, wait, there are two prongs on your spring? What you should see (at least in my experience) is one wire of it that sits about in the middle of the shifter hole and is supposed to be pushed to the side that compresses it.

Why don't you take a picture?

[edit: disregard... not quite right: bad memory I guess, see below:]

bouis

Here you go, bud. I dug up this old picture from this forum.

bouis

All you have to do is push shifter in, leaning it to push the spring toward the top of your monitor [in the pic, of course].

Glazedham42

iTrader: (4)

Hmmm.. mine doesn't look like that at all. The spring has two separate pieces coming out into view. Lemme just see if I can get a pic... Mine looks NOTHING like that though...

Glazedham42

iTrader: (4)

Ok.. here are the pics for anyone that may be able to help out.... Like I mentioned bouis, my spring thingy looks nothing like yours. For some reason it has two separate fingers that come out by the base of the shifter. The previous owner may have done some "transmission work" i.e. he probably got in there and screwed stuff up. But I'm not so sure that he ruined anything here, just something needs to be positioned right. I just don't know how to do it. But at any rate I'm fairly sure the tranny has been tampered with before. So it could be anything really... I'm clueless on this, which is why I posted here..







Thanks fellas!

Jamie

bouis

Take your finger or a screwdriver and see which way both parts can be pushed so that it looks like it will work. Then put the shifter ball so it pushes them that way. Bolt it down and try it. If it feels fine, go with it.

bouis

I am still pretty darn sure that both of them are going to be on the same side of the shifter.

Rx7carl

Bouis' pic is correct. Looks like the spring got bent on yours Jamie. The spring should be on the left side of the shifter when you install it. If you look on the shifter itself, you'll see the wear marks the spring makes. Heres some info on installing the shifter.

http://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/ssinstal.htm

http://www.mazdatrix.com/movies/shortsft.mpg

bouis

Actually, after taking one apart myself a few months ago, if I had to guess I'd say that it's on wrong. He needs to remove that thing from the end of the shift rod and remove and reposition the spring. It's very intuitive once it's apart.

Rx7carl

Looking at it again, I think your right. It got put back in wrong. My memory sucks but thats the other end of the spring showing isint it?

Glazedham42

iTrader: (4)

I'll tear into it tonight and see what I can figure out. So are you guys thinking that he put the spring in upside down? How do I remove the steel block from the end of the shift rod? Just take out the bolt that is showing in the side view and slip it off the end? All I know is it doesn't make any sense that way that it is currently set up. I'll start taking things apart and if I still can't get it I'll snap some pics of the spring while I have everything apart....

bouis

Yeah, but, look, be careful with the shift rod once that thing's off. It could fall out of place. If it does, you'll have to negotiate it back into place... a punch or a drill bit in the hole makes this easier. I had to remove the tail housing on mine. It was real tough to put the shift rod back on the first time I did it, but real easy after that.

Glazedham42

iTrader: (4)

Okay,

I finally got it apart and got some pretty good pics of everything. I looked for the wear marks like you mentioned Carl, but it just isn't making sense. I don't see how this thing could even fit together. Exhibit A, Here is a picture of the spring itself....



Like I said before, it looks nothing like the one you guys posted earlier as a reference. Has anyone ever seen a spring like this in their shifter? I'm wondering if it is even the correct spring at this point. It looks almost like a miniature version of a weight clamp for a bench press bar. The kind you squeeze together and then slip on the bar and let go. I was wondering if there were some holes inside the tranny somewhere that the 90 degree bends on the end of the spring would fit into, but it just isn't working right. With the shift rod running through the spring it doesn't really line up with anything.....

Glazedham42

iTrader: (4)

Exhibit B, here is the inside of the transmission where the shifter sits.



#1 - You can see some significant wear here from the block that bolts onto the end of the shift rod. A picture of the block will be posted below. I don't know if there is supposed to be wear here or not. At any case there has clearly been some rubbing going on there.

#2 - I have no clue what this thing is supposed to do. It feels like a spring loaded plunger, and there is a cover plate on the outside of the tranny with two bolts holding it on. Is it just supposed to keep the shifter lubricated by squirting oil on it? I noticed that when I pushed it down it shot out a little bit of fluid. This thing pushes back, but it was the only thing I was able to feel with the shifter installed. I am fairly sure that this thing isn't supposed to make the shifter stay in neutral is it??

#3 - I'd also like to know what this thing is for. It looks just like a stud that has been screwed into the tailhousing of the tranny. From the outside of the tranny it looks like you could remove it with a flathead screwdriver. What is this thing for? Does it have something to do with the spring for the shifter?

Next picture....

Glazedham42

iTrader: (4)

Exhibit C, the thing that bolts onto the shift rod and holds the shifter.



I just call it "the block" for lack of a better name. The block has some significant wear on the drivers side back corner of it (when installed) where it was rubbing on location number 1 in the previous picture posted above. The block also looks like it pushes in the plunger thing (#2) to lubricate the shifter, i'm guessing here.. The block has two holes on the passenger side of it. One of the holes is for the 10mm bolt that holds it to the shift rod. There is also another smaller hole that I'm wondering if the spring fits into somehow? Except the spring wouldn't fit in the hole very well because when you insert it, it is obviously in the way of the socket for the shifter. I don't see how the spring could fit in the second hole because the shifter would no longer be able to sit in its socket like its supposed to.... last picture coming up...

Glazedham42

iTrader: (4)

Exhibit D, the cover that bolts onto the transmission to cover up all the crap that I have just shown you pictures of.



There are some pretty deep grooves cut into the cover plate. I'm guessing that they were caused by the spring being incorrectly installed. This was the only other sign of wear that I was able to find on any of the shifter components. This doesn't look like natural wear and leads me to believe even further that something is way out of wack here. The shifter felt like total crap before I removed it, and even felt pretty bad when I was checking out the donor car before I purchased it. I'm thinking that this shifter has been screwed up for a while, thanks to the jackass that sold me the car. Lol. I got some good parts off of it, but I've been fixing a crap load of his careless and lazy mistakes.

If ANYONE knows how to help me out with this dumb thing, short of buying another used tranny, PLEASE LET ME KNOW! Carl and bouis, thanks for your help so far guys! Maybe since I got some better pictures now, you guys will be able to make a clearer diagnosis. Hope to hear from many of you now!

Jamie

bouis

Wow, that's some pretty in-depth analysis. That piston-sitting-on-a-spring-thing (from exhibit b) is just supposed to push the shifter back up out of 5th and reverse (I THINK).

As for the wear on the inside of your cover plate, I really don't think that should be there. Remember that I'm going on what I remember from six months ago, so I could be wrong.

That said, I really don't think that's the right spring either. These springs have been known to break.

Here's what I'd do. A local mazda dealer probably has a complete breakdown of the tranny on his computer. Go down there and ask to see the tranny parts sheets. You can find your spring there and order a new one. If they don't have one for an FB, one for an FC will (probably) work since they basically use the same transmission.

bouis

Okay, #3 on part B... IIRC, I think it's actually where that lip on the block from exhibit C sat to keep it from moving too far.

bouis

Also, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it looks like your shift rod fell out of the shifting levers down in the tranny. Make sure you get it back into place and try EVERY gear before installing the transmission.

bouis

Okay, now that I think about it, that stud on the side (exhibit B, part (2)) holds the shifter in place while the car is in reverse.

Also, I think you're wrong about exhibit C, because that that you think is rubbing should be facing the closed end, so that B(2) can sit on it while the car is in reverse. [Edit: wait, I re-read what you're saying and I get it now. Disregard this part, bleh].

Remember, this is what I *think* I remember Surely somebody has a tranny sitting around so they can verify what I'm saying?

Glazedham42

iTrader: (4)

anyone else have any bright ideas about this piece of junk shifter??

Rx7carl

I cant recall what does what in there. But if you read the shop manual, your not supposed to remove that block till after you get the tail housing off. I looked at the pics in the FSM and they arent much help jogging my memory. If its giving you THAT hard a time, I'll stop by the storage unit and take a close look at one of mine.

Glazedham42

iTrader: (4)

I would REALLY appreciate it if you got a look at one so I'd know for sure. The tranny is a 5 spd. out of an 83 GSL (if it matters) and going into an 85 GS (formerly 4 Spd. Auto). As far as the whole shift rod thing.. am I going to have to remove the tailhousing off of the tranny before I put eveyrthing back together now? I'd rather not remove it 'cause I know I'll run into a bunch more stuff that I don't understand, but If its gotta be done then its gotta be done... How hard is it to take the tailhousing off and then put it back on? I dont want to fight with lots of small intricate parts, seeing as how I can't even get the shifter back together right.. I've pulled two engines now, and taken apart just about everything else on this car, so I guess I'm a fairly competent mechanic, but I hate not having someone who's right there to help me with this kinda stuff that I'm new to... NONE of my friends or relatives know anything about cars and have no interest in them, so I'm basically self taught...