brownmound

Last week my the Mound, 84 SE, died suddenly on the road. I had it towed to a shop because I just didn't have time to deal with it. They diagnosed it as a bad trailing ignitor (so no fuel) and wanted $600 to fix it. So I bought a used ignitor for $40 and fixed it myself....driving home today I noticed a considerable lack of power, absolutely no "get on it" response...could hardly go above 80 mph.

So I got home, checked the forum, which lead me to check the leading ignition. Grounding out the spark plug wires I find there is no spark at either leading wire. So I'm running only on trailing, which explains the loss of power.

Is it possible for both ignitors to blow at the same time? Seems unlikely unless there was a possible cause for this to occur.

So now I have a known good ignitor on the trailing, a possibly bad ignitor on the leading, and an assumed bad ignitor that was once on the trailing. Is there a way to test the ignitors, and does anyone have any for sale?

Right on.

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

That would be strange to lose both at nearly the same time, but anything is possible. There is a way to test the ignitors in the Haynes manual and the FSM. Assuming the leading and the old trailing are dead, here is what you can do:

- swap trailing ignitor to leading position (trailing is closest to alt, leading is out front)
- leave the trailing ignitor unplugged
- remove the blue spade connector on the trailing coil - and move to leading -

Doing this will get the tach/ECU signal from the leading. You will have the power and correct timing (running on trailing only will leave timing quite retarded). Once you get another igntior, put it in the trailing position and connect eveything the way it was.

Kent

brownmound

Thanks....I think that is my plan...I am driving it now with just the trailing but after work I will swap the trailing ignitor to leading and swap the spade connector.

It's possible that maybe the shop switched the trailing and leading ignitors and so I swapped out a good ignitor, but using it in the leading ignitor position didn't seem to help. So I'm assuming ignitor is bad, which would mean they both went bad at the same time. Odd.

Does anyone have one or two (would like a spare) ignitors?

Right on.

brownmound

I left my damn Haynes manual at the shop this morning, so if someone can post the testing procedure I'd be grateful.

Right on.

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

Here you go:

brownmound

Thanks...I haven't tested the suspected bad ignitors yet but I did put the good ignitor in the trailing position and moved the lead over on the coil...starts up and has its ***** back now...phew...sucked dick to be driving the Mound with ***** power...damn.

So now I suppose I need an ignitor...would prefer to buy at least two good ones, possibly three, so I have at least one spare.

On all the other ignitor threads there are plenty of offers....anyone have "a bunch lying around?"

I don't know how or why BOTH ignitors went at the same time, seems odd, but I'm going across the street to the free at outdoor concert at Zilker Park, Blues on the Green, drink a beer and not think about it.

Thank god for this forum and Austin, Texas. If I had known about the wire swapping trick I could have saved a tow, $83 diagnostic fee and a lot of grief.

Right on.

brownmound

Lost both again, I think.

She died on me again yesterday, I'm not sure yet if it is the ignitors, I will test for spark after work. But I did switch the spade plug to the leading coil assuming it might be the trailing ignitor failing again, and nothing, no start. I'll check for spark on both trailing and leading and if both are gone my plan is to replace the leading ignitor, swap the spade connector, get her home, and stare at it.

The big question is....what would cause ignitors to blow like this?? There must be something down or upstream in the ignition system causing this.

Will post more tomorrow once I do some diagnostics.

Right on.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

Does lighting strike twice in the same spot often? About as often as losing both ignitors at the same time, the first time. Assuming you used heat sink grease on the back of the ignitors, you are losing current somewhere else, tach signal perhaps.

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

Try re-wiring the entire ignition. it means new wires from the igniters to coil and new power source to the coil. If you need help, let me know. oh yeah, i wonder when these junks will come in handy.

SSRx7

Interestingly enough, I haven't been here for a while and checked in just now to see if there were any threads on this subject and behold, here we are.

Last year right before my heart surgery, my voltage regulator on my alternator fried, (85 GS, 12A) and the alt was putting out over 16 volts (the alt gauge was pegged). While trying to drive it home, after a few minutes it started backfiring and cutting out and then just died. Now it cranks over (after new battery and alternator) but does not fire. Am not getting spark to the plug wires.

Am pretty sure it is the ignitors (both), but what else could it be? Fuse or fusable link on the primary side of the ignition system? Does the ECM control the ignitors at all other than timing(in other words, would a bad ecm prevent firing?) I think I am getting power to the the coils (tested it back before my operation, haven't touched it since then) which would rule out a fuse or fusable link I would think.

Anyone ever hear of a voltage spike blowing ignitors?

And finally, any one have some spares for a reasonable price ( I would say free, but hey there is not much free anymore in the world, and I don't want to come off sounding cheap- although, hey, can't hurt asking, right? LOL. Anyhow, if you gotta couple good ones you can spare for a few bucks, let me know.

Thanks,
Bill.

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

Yes.

brownmound

Well it wasn't the ignitors...I've got spark on all four plugs....it appears I also have fuel as well.....so it's gotta be a compression issue...I tried to unflood it by pulling the sparks and cranking and cranking with the fuel pump unplugged but fuel kept coming...maybe pressure in the line. In any case I'm letting it sit with the plugs out in hopes it will dry out, if worse comes to worse I'll try a little ATF in there. It SHOULD fire up.

I don't know why it died in the first place, but it did.

Right on.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

ATF=yuck. Try oil instead.

OnlyOnThurs

Are all those really junk??? Do you have in good condition? I would like to buy two spare ones just to have (just in case ya know).

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

nah, they're all working junk is only a joke. Sure, Im willing to share them. Just pm me your offer as for me, they're just junkyard pocket items

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

How did you unplug the fuel pump?

When was the dist rotor last replaced.
Have you checked the fuseable link for the injection system?

brownmound

Unplugged the fuel pump via engine fuse or by literally unpluggin it beneath the drivers side storage bin.

Fuseable links looked fine.

right on.

brownmound

Doh!

The thermo sensor on the water housing had come loose. Dang.

Right on.

Kentetsu

lol, at least you got it fixed. What led you to believe that you had lost your spark in the first place?

SSRx7

I guess both of mine are dead, I tried this ^^^ but am still getting no spark. Guess I'll have to try and find some ignitors. Went out to the pick a part, but they only had two very traumatized FC's. Just outa curiosity, were these specific ignitors used on any other vehicles/ engines??

Am getting 12 volts to the pos side of coil, so that rules out fusable link. plugs, wires cap and rotor are new. that leaves the coils (I find that unlikely that both would go out at the same time) and the primary side of the ignition system which is ignitors and pick up.


Later,
Bill

brownmound

Nothing....the first time it failed me (this orginal post) the shop where I had it towed (I didn't feel like dealing with it) said it was a bad trailing ignitor, so no fuel.

Here's the suspicious thing, though. When I took it in there and called about it they remarked on how flooded it was....now, I did crank on it for a while, and it didn't start, but if the trailing ignitor was out the injectors wouldn't pulse and flood the engine, right? It should've been dry from all the cranking.

The other suspicious thing...I fixed the car in their parking lot, replacing the trailing ignitor with a good one I bought for $20 (they wanted like $400 or something). It started up, but I had no power...which I traced to a dead leading ignitor. I replaced that one and everything was fine.

Very odd that two ignitors would die at once, and the engine would be flooded like crazy if the trailing ignitor had failed, right???

I think I might have to go gonzo on the place, at least speak my mind. I'm suspicious that when it died the first time it was just the loose thermo sensor, which they fixed and told me it was the ignitor. Maybe they put a bad ignitor on the leading when I told them I was coming to fix it, and I replaced a good trailing ignitor with a good trailing ignitor. I can't remember if I saved/tested the one I replaced.

Question, when the thermo sensor is unplugged is it telling the computer to send no fuel (too hot) or a shitload of fuel (for a cold start)?? If it sends a bunch of fuel I think I have a case. It's gonna be my word against theirs, but the facts add up.

Right on.

Rogue_Wulff

I *think* it tells the ECU to richen the mixture, for a cold start. I know everyone says they will flood like a pig, and get crappy fuel mileage when that is bad/unhooked.

brownmound

Sweet, that's what I thought. I'm going to go after these guys. Worth a shot. Sucks because this guy is a known rotary guru, so I thought I could trust him.

Right on.

ray green

iTrader: (14)

I had a very similar experience with my white 84 GSL a few weeks after I got it, the tach started jumping and it died about a minute after I started it up when already hot, having gone to a local bar to show off my new purchase to a rotor head friend (he was driving, off course). We checked the fuel line going to the carb and there was no gas being pumped. I thought it might be a vapor lock, but releasing the gas cap didn't help, so I had it towed the 50 miles home (no charge though, towing insurance covered the first 50 miles).

Because of the tach and the gas cut off, I assumed it was a bad trailing ignitor so I put in a spare. It still wouldn't start because of flooding but I was getting spark so I did the ATF treatment, which started it right up and everything seemed fine.

Until I stopped for gas a couple days later with a hot engine, sure enough as I was pulling out of the station it died, just like the first time, again about a minute after restarting and 50 miles from home. This time, with no more towing insurance and a clue that it probably was restarting the hot engine rather than ignitor problems, I just waited 15 minutes with the hood up, then tried to start it again, which it did.

It's been running fine ever since, I never did figure out what, if anything, was wrong.

Ray