Pele

iTrader: (28)

Okay... So, I have money, finally... And tools, yay tools.

So yeah. Time to replace that banged up front suspension, before I take the 7 out ont eh road again. The engine and tranny rebuilds can wait since they both still run...

Got stock Tie rod ends and adjusting sleeves... I will be coating them in anti-seize as I've had enough experience doing alignments on rusted out cars. Stock control arms with ball joints will be bought soon... (My shop's parts suppliers only stock ball joints.. I think CarQuest can order some control arms for me though.)

Okay.. So, now onto the goodies. Front Coil-overs with camber/Caster plates. I was looking into Ground Control stuff. Their adjustable height sleeves and Camber caster plates with Eibach Springs and Koni Adjustable shocks.. Anyone have any of their stuff? Like it? Hate it? Bitch to install?

I dunno much on suspension. I couldn't tell you an A-arm from a wishbone from a control arm... Alls I know is the following.

I drive on different types of terrain and whatnot... Sometimes a softer ride wuold be nice like on a date.. Sometiems a stiffer ride would be nice, like at the track... Hence the Adjustable shocks... I chose Koni's because I've heard Tokico's dont last as long...

I'd like to be able to adjust the rake of the car so that I don't scoop air up under the front. Hence the adjustable height Coil over spring perches. I'm not sure what else I can do with adjustable height perches...

I only said Eibach springs because they seem to be popular. The 171 Spring rate means the ride will be a bit rough, but the car will not roll when I turn hard, right? That means the wheels won't hop if I go over bumps too, right?

And Of course, I will be using adjustable sway bar end links and polyurethane bushings to replace the cracked up rotten rubber stuff.

On the rear, I will be using a matched set of shocks and springs as the front... I dunno what a panhard bar or tri link suspension is, or what the watts linkage does. So, I'd appreciate it if someone told me what would be good and what does what...

There's so much I need to learn before dropping this much money on stuff...

This car will be seeing a lot of public roads, but I'd like to road race it and auto cross it... I don't much like drag racing as I think that round thing called a steering wheel is there for a reason. That, and I'd like to learn to drift in it... Simply because it looks cool to do...

inittab

I totally agree.... anti-seize and I are good buddies.

I fyou need ball joints, get Mazda replacement control arms with the ball joints... my 2 cents

Sounds like you're on the right track with your plan.....

Keaponlaffen

do you use the copper-based anti-seize, or the silver stuff? I'm just curious.... I use the copper based stuff on mine, including my lug nuts every time they come off...

Jeff

inittab

I don't know the diff between the copper and the silver stuff. I happen to have the silver and it works great for me... even on my lug nuts. What a life saver....

Keaponlaffen

well, I should say "lug bolts"

My copper stuff works good.... I love it... use it on everything...

Jeff

Pele

iTrader: (28)

I use the silver stuff. I have jars of it... Never seen the copper stuff before.

I will be using new control arms.. I don't trust the the junkyard parts, nor do I want to press in ball joints and have them come loose again.

C'mon.. Nobody has suspension input?

Acuspeed

Mazdatrix also sells the lower control arms you seek.

www.mazdatrix.com



Well, unless they've changed as of late, Koni's have never been known for a soft, compliant ride regardless of the setting. In fact, many (reputable) shops have stated that the adjustments on the Koni's work better to adjust for wear than they do to adjust for ride compliance. With the springs, shocks and bushings you've choosen, you really aren't going to get a smooth ride ... it would probably handle nicely, but a smooth ride also ... no.

The car will always roll some. However, some nice aftermarket springs will greatly reduce the roll. Also, (if I'm thinking about this correctly -- and if I'm not, someone correct this), the stiffer you set the suspension, the more bumps will upset it.

I cannot comment on the Eibachs as I haven't driven a 7 with them installed, however, back when I was looking at springs, I decided that was way stiffer (on paper) than I wanted to go for my street RX-7. I choose Racing Beat's springs based on their knowledge/experience with the RX-7 (particularly 1st gens) and on the spring rates (which are less than the Eibachs). I haven't regretted the decision in the least.

Those urethane bushings will stiffen the ride quite a bit (although I would still suggest you do it if your main goal is to improve handling). It is basically acepted to replace all the bushing up front w/urethane (this includes sway bar, control arms, tension rods) and replace the rear bushings in the lower control arm, and possibly Watts links with urethane, but retain OEM rubber bushings in the upper control arms (I believe I got that straight ... had a few beers, so hopefully didn't post that backwards).

You don't want the Panhard bar on a street car ... just trust us here.

Based on what you've said, I think you are looking for a setup similiar to mine. I have: RB springs front and rear, Tokico blues, urethane bushings front (control arms, tension rods, sway bar) and rear (upper and lower control arms, watts links) ... note I didn't follow my own advice on the upper control links (so far, I've not had a problem with them, but I really don't drive the car that hard on the street either.

youdoitimtired

Mazda trix is too expensive!!!!

Pele

iTrader: (28)

Would the height adjustable front coil over setup be a waste of money for me?

How does one decide which spring rate is right for them? Ground Control offers spring rates up to 700, which makes 171 look pretty weak in comparison, but everyone says 171 is very stiff. I know it's pounds to compress the spring an inch, or something like that.

Is the Koni Red adjustable? Anyone have them on a street car? What is it like? What about the Koni Sport (yellow) ones?

What does a Panhard bar do? Aparently my Honda has one. How does it comapre to the Watts linkage? What does the Watts linkage do?

I don't have my RX-7 with me, so I can't really see how the levers and all are set up.

I'm not trying to discredit you Acuspeed, as I know you're very experienced and have been at it longer than I have, therefore, your input is highly valued. Please don't take my asking for more opinions as an offense. I just like to hear things from more than one person.

NanaimoRx-7

What's so bad about a panhard bar on a street car, I'm seriously thinking about getting one after the rest of the suspension stuff goes on.

rx7gslse

well, I run GC coil overs with 350# springs and the tokico "racing" illuminas on my street car, and it works fine. IF you're going over rough pavement it's notg very pleasant, but not jarring... On the highway the ride is super smooth. Especially if you are still running on the 13" wheels with nice tall sidewalls it's not bad at all.

Thats' just my 0.02... And it makes those corners so much mroe fun :_

Montrealer

I too have a similar setup to rx7gsl-se

350# front 200# rear, (stock front bar w/ poly bushings and no rear bar).

Its ok for the street but that is if you dont mind a rough ride wouldnt go much stiffer for the street.


A nice compromise to reduce roll and keep some form of comfort, is to go with softer springs and add bigger bars in the front and an ajustable bar in the rear. Not the best setup for racing but might be a good option in your case.

Coil-overs, their primary function is to ajust the car's cornerweights. I choose them because there are no non ajustable springs that offered high enough rates.


I'm curious about the koni shocks you are talking about... the reds are ajuststable but they almost have to be completely removed from the car to change the settings. As for the Yellows, I dont think that they make a model that fits our cars, or else I would have bought them.

BTW, the tokico illumina's are more than sufficient for spring rates under 350. how long they last? only time will tell...

Acuspeed

No problem at all. It's always a good idea to get input from multiple sources. Hell, I'm the first to admit that I don't know everything there is to know about ... well, about much of anything, come to think of it .

About the panhard bar, give me a few days to dig up my resource on the panhard bar. The article I read explains it better than I could (why you don't want to do it on a street car that is).

I'm not saying that you can't do it, just that it was basically not necessarily the way to go for a street 1gen RX-7 (if I remember correctly, it was due to noise/harshness or something along those lines).

Pele

iTrader: (28)

Noise, I can deal with. Just turn up the stereo.

Harshness, I can deal with to a point. This will not be an all terrain vehicle, I'd just rather not break stuff by hitting the smallest pothole. There is much construction in the area, so there are lots of patches in the road, uneven lanes, bumps, and grooved pavement.

This is why I wanted adjustable shocks, so I can adjust how harsh the ride is. If I'm just running around town, I'll set the shocks soft, If I'm doing anything "spirited", I'll crank em firm. I like to play with stuff like *****, dials and gauges. See what does what... This is why I'm a mechanic, and into computer, and electronics... I was playing with screwdrivers, soldering irons, osciliscopes, and wrenches when I should have been playing with G.I.Joes.

Gauge it this way. If you can sit a portable CD player (With a CLEAN CD) on your passenger seat or floorboard and not have it skip, I can defenately handle it. If it skips a little, I can still handle it. If you can't listen to the song at all, chances are, I won't enjoy it.

I defenately hate body roll (Much of the reason why I hate SUV's and why my friends get nauseas when I drive then around in a mini-van. I tend to overcorrect for it and cause the car to rock some. So I'd like to minimize that. I also hate understeer. I can calculate for oversteer to a degree, but not understeer. I still need practice, but I doubt anyone can control a car that has it's rear brakes lock up at 50 MPH (Not the RX-7... My Civic)

Any more opinions on the adjustalbe height coil over setup?

Pele

iTrader: (28)

What can adjusting corner weights do for me?

I thought I had to move **** around in the car to change the weights. Like move the battery to the back.

I thought the adjustable height coilovers allow you to raise or lower the car, thereby allowing more or less suspension travel. Lower would give you a stiffer, more responsive ride. Higher would give you a softer, more comfortable ride...

C'mon.. Need more input. Educate me...

Pele

iTrader: (28)

Bump.

If rx7gslseand Montrealer have 350 Lb springs, and say they're okay on the street, why do most people say the Eibach 171/100 Lb springs are too harsh.

Are they measured on a different scale or something? Kinda like in Degrees, theres Farenheit and Celsius... Are there Pounds Type A and Pounds Type B??

Also, what would having stiffer springs in the rear only do? Or the Front only?

Looking at the chart:

Make--------Front--------Rear
Stock--------100-----------85
R.B.----------145----------110
S.T.---------85-120--------80
Eibach-------171----------100

What would happen if you put Eibachs on the front and Racing beats on the rear? Unmatched...

ScruffyChimp

Hi.

It's good to see you back and still trying to save the car. Good luck with it. It's been a long wait.

Bye,
ScruffyChimp

Pele

iTrader: (28)

Bump

Acuspeed

Well, I think what we are hitting on here is that what each of us thinks is too harsh is based on our own subjective experience (the smoothness, or lack thereof, of the roads we normally drive on, duration of our normal drives, as well as at what point our posteriers -- and kidneys -- cry for mercy).

In reality, there is probably a relatively wide band (in terms of stiffness) as to what would be 'acceptable' for use on the street. That's probably one reason that it is so difficult for any of us to answer your questions in a concrete way.

I know that probably doesn't help ya much tho ...
I don't know for certain, but my gut tells me that wouldn't be the best idea. I would think it to be better to stick with one brand so the springs are somewhat matched front to rear. Then again, I'm no expert.

I just realized I forgot to dig up that source about the panhard bar conversion last week. I'll give that a shot again this week -- hope I didn't lose it in the move. I'm pretty sure I've got it around here somewhere. In the meantime, perhaps one of the racers on here can field the panhard bar question from above. Perhaps I'm wrong there, or the source I had for that was just using their own subjective opinion...