REVHED

Baahaha!! Real race car builders use engine dyno's you ******* dimwit. You think F1 teams slap their cars on a chassis dyno so they can brag to each about their numbers at pit lane? You're a joke.

It's a simple fact that chassis dyno's give varying results. We call these unusually high reading dyno's (such as the one you ran your car on) "magic dyno's". I know because I have seen a 15% difference between different dyno's with my car in the same state of tune.

And don't even get me started about Dynojet's. They aren't even used anywhere outside the US because they're an inferior dyno. I suggest you study up a bit on the difference between Dynojets and the Dynodynamics style load cell dyno's we use here.

And lastly, don't assume what I do and don't know... you're just making yourself sound like a ******. (not that you need any help)

SilverRocket

Hmmm... ok I'll apologize on this one. I was thinking 10%, but I just did some research and I'll retract my statement. My bad.

Anyways, it still doesn't change the fact that you don't run 16's with 190 hp

Ooooo... sorry there tough guy. You won't get me to shut up just by saying that. I'll post whatever the **** I want

mar3

iTrader: (8)

That's where I'm at...butt dynos don't count and drag wars are all driver...if we're talking HP, it's gotta be a dyno slip. And remember, dyno numbers can be corrected so that they are comparable the world over...

SilverRocket

Wow, you must be a real expert.

As for me, I haven't built a single 12A. I'm still running the one that came under the hood of my RX-7 when I slid into the seat 6 years ago. But I do know that 120hp RX-7s run 16 second quartermiles. I also know that 157hp stockport 12A's don't exist, except when doing speculative calculations using variable dyno figures and unknown driveline losses. I also know that said cars would run better than 16 second quartermiles, even in hot weather and with shitty launches.

You don't have to be Jim Downing to figure this one out.

RXcetera

Haha, that was hilarious .

I think I need to get rid of Action's picture... it's making me look bad lol.

peejay

I will say this one more time...

HORSEPOWER CALCULATORS THAT USE ET/MPH AND VEHICLE WEIGHT DO NOT GIVE YOU WHEEL HP THEY GIVE YOU FLYWHEEL HP.

My 2200lb car turned best 15.1/90.5. That is 130 flywheel HP! NOT wheel HP. Go on, plug it in, figure a 200lb driver.

I also take issue with loaded GSL weighing 2300lb. (Where did THAT come from???) You can't tell me that my SA weighed 2200lb, and my GSL, with its power steering, electronic everything, heavy rear end, and four wheel disks (disk brakes are much heavier than drum brakes) weighs only 100lb more than a mildly stripped SA! By mildly stripped I mean no passenger seat, no spare tire/jack, no rear insulation, and just enough fuel in the take to get me 3-4 miles to the nearest gas station.

Rotor13B

Why not? my 83 gsl weighs in at a bit over 2300lbs....

peejay

Physically weighed it?

RXcetera

I can believe it. My similarily equiped SA weighs more than my stock 83 weight (100+ pounds more). I have all the different weights somewhere, lemme dig it up. Off the top of my head though, 83 GSL weight was 2290 pounds and 2325 pounds in 84-85 (both these is without a/c).

peejay

I'll have to weigh the '85 then.

It certainly FEELS heavier, that's for sure.

Wait... Without A/C? That's not very loaded, is it? A loaded GSL would have A/C and ('84-85) power steering and leather interior. Leather probably doesn't weigh any more, of course, it just means seats that reek and are too slippery to drive in.

RXcetera

To clear some things up... I dont beleive powersteering was available on any 12A 1st gen and yes the leather seats and door panels DO weigh alot more than the cloth.

Here's what I've got from the sales brochures I have here (82-85).

82 manual isnt too specific, but it states 2345lbs as its figure. This must be WITH a/c because its the same weight as an A/C equipped 83. BTW, with automatic it's 2380lbs.

83: With 5-speed 2290lbs, with automatic 2325lbs, add 55lbs for a/c.

84: With 5-speed 2325lbs, with automatic 2390lbs, add 55lbs for a/c. GSL-SE: 2512lbs

85: Same as 84 for 12A. GSL-SE grows to 2575lbs !

Does anyone have the original Mazda weights for the SA's?

moremazda

iTrader: (4)

All of those weight you just listed are called "dry weight". There NO liquid in those cars that generated those numbers. Add 170-200lbs for gas, oil, gear lube, brake fluid and engine coolant.

RXcetera

Yeah, but all cars have those fluids in them, and since no-one is stating real world weights, stating the dry weight works.

Sterling

"I've been building rotaries for fifty years, and I can tell you a thing or two about...."
Hee hee! This is juat GREAT fun to watch!

Is'nt everybody here that I once held in high regard and respect for the "super-encyclopedia de'Rotarie" just showing their true *******-isms!

Did anyone bother to call up Vwerts dynomologist? No, I thought not.

C'mon, bitch som'ore.
REVHED's nailed what I've maintained all along...Dynos are machines, and operated by humans, to boot. Variences for one run to the next on the same machine, let alone different ones, are to be expected.

I absolutely agree....Those that go around bragging that they have "such 'n such experience in the field of...what-the-****-ever..." are usually just plain fulla **** -Or at least half fulla ****.

However, SilverRocket maintains throughought that anything over 150HP (unported NA 12A) is vertualy unacheivable without devine intervention of physics as we (humans) understand it.

RxCetera (Did I get that right?) has a spiffy carb and is only pulling 15s. Tisk-Tisk.

We need SilverRocket to get into all of these cars and tell us to the nearest HP what each is pulling. (His ***-o-meter is quite sensitive, ya know!)

Vert, you're too high in your numbers. They are just unbelievable in the world as we know it, consisting of "...OVER 18,000 MEMBERS..." - That is to say that out of 18,000 of your rotary bretheran, probably two or three would've come to your rescue to back you up in a thread that had nearly 850 visits!!! But t'wernt so, my friend.

I really belioeve that the max is indeed over 150 HP, but certainly not 170. But I've never even seen a ******* dynomometer! But I belong to the "REVHEDs Who Gives A Flying ****" party, anyways. You say kilometer, I say mile.

But when I read a thread like this, I really want to get involved, especially if I have the opportunity to **** someone off!

SilverRocket quote:
------------------------------------------------------------
Ooooo... sorry there tough guy. You won't get me to shut up just by saying that. I'll post whatever the **** I want
------------------------------------------------------------

INDEED!

Ya know what I like the most?...Reading someone say that they have "such n' such" experience with rotaries; And then when you go to see how old they are on their profile, they did'nt fill it in.
Uh-huh. Yer fulla ****.
Who? 88Vert?
No.
All of you have mentioned just how ******* wonderful you are!

Hmmm.

Zulu

I'm wonderful.

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

I am wonderful too!

However, since you have become soooo
good at pissing off your fellow brethren,

I hereby grant you the "Assclown" award.

you earn this award for pissing people off, not if you were right or wrong.

SilverRocket

You're right that I was a little too strong in my wording... I definitely don't "know" this to be true in any kind of certain sense. I'll rephrase to say: Everything I've learned based on what I've read, people I've talked to, and my own very limited experience leads me to believe that most stock-port 12A's are limited to something in the neighborhood of 150hp. I'm sure there are variances there, like there are with everything else in the world. I wouldn't be too surprised to hear that some elite race engine builder at some point was able to squeeze 160 hp out of a completely optimized stockport 12A. What I find very unlikely, however, is that David's friend with his daily-driver first gen is making that kind of horsepower with his relatively off-the-shelf setup and running slow 16 second quartermiles as reward for his efforts.



Hey, no problem lads, I'll volunteer for that anytime!

Lol, 15 flat is pretty decent for a stock 12A. I have the same carb and run pretty similar. What are you running with your fancy modded Nikki there Sterling? (that incidentally cost a lot more than our Dell's) You're running 15's I'll bet!

Hey, I filled mine in. I've got no problem admitting I'm a 22 year old who's only been with the world of RX-7's for the past 6 years. I don't know **** compared to the experts around here, but I know a little bit as a result of 6 years of rotary fanaticism and driveway mechanics, and I'm learning more all the time. I'm allowed to give my opinion, and if it turns out I'm incorrect, I won't be afraid to admit it. I didn't mean to shamelessly profess my wonderfulness, so I'll excuse myself if that's how it looked.

But hold on for a sec Sterling... you aren't exactly known for your humble attitude around here either buddy

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

SilverRocket

Close?? Why?

Have you actually read the whole thread Directfreak?

I think we've all been doing fairly well at keeping this more or less civil... it's more humorous than blatantly antagonistic.

It's a valid discussion and no one has posted anything that brutally violates forum rules, so I don't see how this thread deserves to be closed.

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

Actually, I have read the whole thing. You're right, nobody has been violated yet. I guess the same arguements are just getting old for me.

Barwick

isn't this getting old kids?

mar3

iTrader: (8)

Quote:

Originally posted by mar3

And then the fur started flying... Saint's alive, begorrah!!

Did I call this on the money or what? Too bad the Saint was banned (?) or he might have come to the defense of the 170 HP stockport.

This is an interesting juxtaposition to an observation I made in the "Engines" thread that I believe you started, sterling...namely, that with all the people proud of their 120,000 + miles original 12A rotary engines that made up the majority of the poll by a huge margin, how the hell did any of the young roosters get the skills to become rotary experts if they're not even using the engines they would have had to build to get that experience??? No one replied then, it'll be interesting to see how it washes this time in light of sterling's ascerbic taunt!!

RXcetera

"Did I call this on the money or what? Too bad the Saint was banned (?) or he might have come to the defense of the 170 HP stockport."

Haha, that guy will never be forgotten! It was 190 at the flywheel I beleive .

As far as the age thing is concerned... Damn, I never realized that kind of thing was considered important by some. I've personaly never posted my bday on any forum. To any interested, I'm 26 for 2 more months lol. I hang out with youngins like Silver to keep up to date on all the fresh mad kool wordz yo (I suck lol) .

SilverRocket

Wat tha dizzle? You always have mad sicker words than me yo... that's why I ill with you dawg.

Sterling

Directfreak has that "selective" sense of humour...He can dish it out real well, but when I joked around with him earlier this season, he could'nt figure out I was messin with him. I had to PM him to 'clear the air'.
Too easy to **** off.

BTW, Where'd ja get my picture?

Quote:
Originally posted by the marginally sane sterling...


Marginally sane!!! Waddaya mean? heh heh

Listen, all you "matter-of-factly know-it-alls";
Enter into your self-eccentricated epichoidral universe the very notion that some backyard mechanic with a degree in nothing more than "How to **** off DirectFreak" might actually -accidently even, hit some astounding 160 completely unproven Horse Power with his stockport 12A, a Yaw carb, and many hours of, "Well HELL, That did'nt work. What's next?" type of just plain good ole fashoned ****** AROUND!

Anyone here that can type in all good conciousness that this scenerio is not plauseable, let alone just plain possible, can go **** IN YER HAT!

I don't really give a crap if people at the track have been trying for a decade to break some magical mystery number on their dyno runs.
It was Manntis who, in an effort to make a point on a thread that most of the participants here were a part of, recently wrote something like:

"It's dark.
Whales stomaches are dark inside.
Therefore, I must be inside a whale."

Goober at the track has tried for ten years to get his NA 12A to put out more than 152 HP, but can't seem to do it.
Do you know him? HE can't do it, and he knows more than me. Therefore, I cannot do it.
What a crock o' ****!

I have nothing to back me. I have no claim to make. Having never driven an RX-7 with 160 HP, I have nothing to compare my car to. I don't even know where to go to get dynoed.
But hell...Until I have something I desperately need to try on my car to see real numbers differences, why would I bother? So I can have a number to tell all my friends? Hell, I just tell them all I got 200HP anyways- what the hell do they know?
So would it be just to print the sheet here for all you guys to gawk at? Would any...ANY of you actually be impressed by a dyno sheet that I produced that demonstrated my NA stockport 12A w/Yaw carb @ 160 HP?

I thought not.

Or would everyone then suddenly start to take up REVHEDs thoughts on dynos, that previously (in this thread) seem to have been ignored?

You're a mob. You're all a stone throwing mob. A big ole Texas style cattle herd. That's why this thread now has over 900 visits! It's a big rock throwing contest, and everybody that is'nt trying to be part of it wants to at least watch.

Anything to learn from this thread stopped on the very first page.

So, as I have to look up to you all with the sun glaring in my eyes, and thus not see the stones being cast at my face, I ask you all to dismount from your high steeds, and join me down here on the ground.

You're all just so Goddamn smart. In my eyes, anyone who refuses to think outside of the parameters defined by others that make up his environment; Well, they are just plain stuck at exactly one hundred-fifty horse power.


As far as dyno sheets...Well I guess they don't prove **** to you all afterall when the leading Nikki carb modifier (argueably, I suppose) uses one on his website to demonstrate how much improved his moddifcations are in the operation of his modded Nikki. Yaw states, what -158 (point something) HP? Has the dyno sheet right there.

Oh but there must be something wrong, there, huh? Was HIS dyno; HIS engine.
And further to think that someone like myself could possibly take that carb to another level...Only in that Paul Yaw would have had to charge $1000 for the time put in to porting the airhorn completely and remanufacturing from scratch linkages of his own design; and possibly squeeze even more power out of it - enough to say with confidence that it has at least the power that Paul Yaw said it would...
Gueeze, does anybody even get my gripe?

Could possibly Paul Yaw not have been fulla ****? Could I possibly have found the perfect jetting-airbleed-pressure-AP shot combo for my carb? Could my mods actually have done anything to improve the breathing ability of my carb to give just that hair more than expected power?

Naw, probly not. I mean, not if all you guys say no, right?

Directfreak, I love you, man!