peejay

The stock top speed wasn't 130mph, it was 116-120 for the 12A. Maybe the speedometer said 130 at that point

Rice Racing's car doesn't use a lot of boost, it just has biiiig ports and enough turbo to efficiently feed them. Find his spec elsewhere on the forum... or maybe he'll come here in person and explain

BTW - everyone's right. He's had a 3 rotor for a long time. However it is now *back in* the car

RTBoy02

I don't want to start a big argument so hopefully everyone takes this as it is meant, but...

I have trouble doing 95+ in my stock GSL-SE. Granted it isn't in the best of tune, but I am having trouble believing 137 mph on a stock SE. Does anyone have proof of this? I'm just curious.

peejay

Instrumented tests when the GSL-SE was new showed a top speed of 125mph (5650rpm in 5th) according to Car and Driver. They go by a caibrated wheel and not by the stock speedometer, which is known to often read 10-15% too high. Interestingly enough, 137mph is 10% higher than 125.

Rotaries are weird little engine, they don't like to be lugged in my experience. My revious car could go through the 1/4mi traps at 90mph but it did not seem to like accelerating about 75mph if I was in 5th or 4th gear.

fatboy7

If Theory and math wern't useful for modeling, we'd be in a world of hurt. Even if the model everyone is using is a couple percent off, its still useful.

Top speeds actually is among the easiest things to model, because things are in a steady state. How else were people breaking 350 mph in the 1930's?

As far as 1st gens go, remeber that coefficient of drag only tells you how much drag is created per unit frontal area. Although 1st gens aren't awesome in the coefficent of drag department (.32-.36 depeding on the lights being open or closed), they have relatively low frontal areas (narrow track width, low overall height). Smaller hole to punch in the air means less drag. With a several simple modifications such as an air dam, and a properly sized duck-tail rear spoiler you can get even that .32 to below .30 without changing the frontal area (according to the options mazda offered from the factory). Lowering the car should help also, makeing the hole smaller, and keeping more air from becoming turbulent under the car. Removing the side mirrors would help a lot too.

REVHED

pratch

so that must've cost an additional what, $210,000 to get once they hit 160mph...


Or to be kind, let's make that 202mph from 170 and then start the $5k per mph. $160,000

I wish I had a 6 figure FB. That thing would likely be able to support sustained flight.

mmasid

My immeadiate defensive tone was more or less directed at your snide remark that I don't know what I'm talking about because I don't have as many posts as you and have been a member to this forum 10 months less than you.

My 83 fb is bone stock and in perfect running order and I've never gotten it over 125. Elevation here might have something to do with that.

Also, for all you teenie boppers out there, I was clocked at 178 mph by the Nevada highway patrol in my 1974 Pantera and was promply cuffed and stuffed. Moral of the story is don't do it! It also doubled my insurance.

setzep

With the right gears I don't even want to think how fast it would go. I know it gets to 120 in a very short time.
A FB with 350-400wrhp would hit 160-170 easily with a more suited 5th or rear gear but having the ***** to do it with the loose steering is a whole different story. I know my ***** aren't big enough to do it in my car.

Felix Wankel

wuss

setzep

Come up here and I'll give you a ride up to 130 and you'll think differently. The car needs to hit the alignment shop in a bad way.

CheddaKing

If this argument is still going on by the time i get my TII swap done...ill make the damn Video!

rx7passion

man you are such a wuss setzep.

pratch

I wasn't saying you couldn't possibly know, but it's a common for people who think they know rotaries to come here and find themselves in error rather quickly. There are many people who have forgotten more about what makes 'em tick than I'll ever know. Some post here, most post on "another" forum.

I agree that elevation is probably the cause. With a properly calibrated spedometer, I took my 85 GSL to 130ish before losing heart. Fun? Without a doubt. Foolish? Beyond question.

Like you, I don't think I'll ever do that again. At least, not without being on a track

I imagine the point is that although you will have to fight for every mile per hour past a certain point, I don't think that $5K per mile is realistic on an FB, nor is 160/170 the point at which that pain begins.

YMMV, SPSFD.

RRTEC

iTrader: (13)

All i have to say is that in my expereince with the first gen rx-7's is that every 1 mph you are traveling feels like 10mph faster then you really are traveling. These cars are ***** to the wall and anything over 130mph in this car would make me crap my pants.

rotary emotions

With my Mariah Widebody I often use german Autobahn as a test track () and drive over 130mph for a while. It ain't that scarry, as long as no truck pulls out or something...
Now, doing 200mph... that'd be something else, I guess I'd need a good drink afterwards. At least testing in Germany means I don't have to bother about speed limits.

mmasid

For all those who think that simpley bolting on 800 hp and some tall gears will get you 200 mph you're not living in reality. Estimated top speed and actual top speed are never the same. It's kinda like the butt dyno, the butt dyno over estimates hp almost 100% of the time. You can crunch all the numbers you want to estimate your top speed, reality is quite different. If you got all the hp in the world with the tallest gears ever and you estimate your top speed at 200+ and then you take the car out and it becomes unstable and practically air born at 180mph then your top speed is 180 not 200+. Oh, and yes, this will require opening up your wallet yet again so that you can reach that estimated speed.

And one last word for my buddy pratch. No, you're right, I've never made a tutorial to help the needy, but I'm sure many of the members of this forum have used my dyno at some point in time to tune their cars. Always glad to help!

Mills

iTrader: (1)

I've owned quite a few stock first gens, always in tune, and none of them would go over 120-125. W/exhaust and intake on my SE, it seems to max out at 130mph.

Just my own personal experience...

fatboy7

Of course there are other limits to speed besides horsepower and tall gears. I'm sure that I'd never want to take my 1st gen to 200 mph. 120 scares me to death, I don't want know what 200 would feel like. Maybe on a track or the salt flats, with a cage, helmet, etc. But never on the highway, or in a "street" car.

I don't know how many of you have seen the RB 3rd gen video at the salt flats, where it catches a lip of air at 205mph and goes completely airborn, then rolls end over end over end. Yikes!!

The steering I think would be one limiting factor. Its just too vague on center. It doesnt' take much wheel movement to make the car expirience serious lateral acceleration at 200 mph. Beyond that, I'd want to do some aero mods to lessen lift, and maybe add a bunch of wieght to the car. Lift means loss of maximum traction, so elimitating it would be very important for those speeds.

peejay

My '80 felt rock stable at 120+mph.

I think you all need your alignments done. You really should get an alignment done every 6 months. Regular maintenance.

fatboy7

I need more than an alinment, lol.... like an overhaul of the entire steering system; new bushing, new tie-rods, you name it. Oh the joys of owning a 20 yr old car

peejay

The first step in performing an alignment is making sure that the front end and suspension is "tight".

You can't align something that is flopping around loose.

pratch

Without a doubt alignment is king.

First time in my youth I buried the spedometer on my 85, I was wobbly and felt like I was about to fly.

After the addition of the airdam and a nice alignment/balancing, I decided to do one last *** haul. Smooth as silk and hugging the road at high speed.

REVHED

You simply don't get it. We're not talking about estimated top speeds. The top speed in that graph is the actual top speed as confirmed by the Motec data-logger. I know of other people who have done similar speeds in a 1st gen. also confirmed by the use of data-logs. I think Anthony Rodrigues of Maztech was one of them.

Have you even seen the Racing Beat car that did 180mph with a mere 13Bpp? It looks like a lowered stock-bodied 1st gen with nothing more than a subtle front lip added. Since you haven't done these speeds yourself how do you know the car becomes unstable?

peejay

My '80 had that same front lip. So subtle it was factory?

mmasid

Yes, we are talking about estimated top speeds. When I made my original post on this thread it was about hitmans estimated top speed of 330kph. I never said it was impossible. I never said that nobody has ever been able or will be able to do it. I stated my theory of cost versus speed and haven't yet heard any other theories. My whole point is that the faster you want to go the more $ your going to need.

Yes, I've seen the Racing Beat car up close and personal in real life, not just in pictures. I've also seen the 2G car that ran 238 mph and the 3G car that ran 242 mph.

When I talked about becoming unstable at 180 mph it was an analogy for you people that think all you have to do is bolt in 800 hp and you can go as fast as you want. I know that's crap. You will need to do a whole lot of work to your car to handle that kind of power. I've never gone 180 in an Rx-7 because mine is mostly stock. I have gone that fast in my 1974 Pantera that I still have and also in my 1984 Z28 twin turbo 454 that I sold at auction ten years ago. I've also got a 2001 Z06 corvette that I've only got up to 160 once because I haven't had a good opportunity yet to see what she can do. I know I breaking the rules by straying away from Rx-7's but while I'm at it I've also got a 28' Howard custom boat with a 502 fuel injected twin supercharged 1300hp V8. 106 mph at a measely 4 pounds boost. You can find it in the December or January issue of Hot Boat magazine.

Sorry guys, I just couldn't resist any longer but some of these kids have a little to learn about the need for speed.