just quickly dabble on some sites and today..the HITMAN downunder has his 3 rotor in his yellow first gen!

can't wait for more info!

it's good to be into my first gen again...gotta thank Rotaryshack for that!



http://www.hitman.hm/rx7.htm

 

there ya go

 

or maybe not, oh well

 

~T.J.

 

Ok, so the forum fucked up and took forever to let me do anything so I couldnt edit... All I wanted to say was that Mike, you had it, just leave out the spaces .

~T.J.

PS - Oh yeah, and I thought that thing has been done for a while now?

 

Damn what a tight fit. That's gonna HAUL!

 

I thought the same too..

 

Ah, he's gone to electric fans, tha bastid!

 

I believe hes had a 3rotor for quite a few years. I think I saw the hitmans site like in 98 or even earler with the 20b in it? But, its gotta be stupid fast though.

 

no its a 3 rotor, but not a 20b LOL

But I thought he had that car done and driving for a while? or was it a 13bt?

 

He says estimated top speed is 330 km/h which is about 205 mph. I've played with many a fast car and I really doubt that this car can't hit more than 180mph tops. I'm not sure how much money he's got into it, but he says on his web site that it's cheaper than a third gen. I figure that about $25,000-$30,000 will get a first gen up to about 160-170 mph and for every single mile per hour over that you'd be looking at $5000 min. That's for each mph. My experience has shown a threshhold in the 160-170 mph area where it becomes extremely difficult to overcome resistance.

 

Considering that Racing Beat did "only" 180+ mph on a stock bodied SA, with "only" a PP 13B, - I say your theory is full of holes.

Also, it has been established that Rice Racing (here on the forum) has exceeded 200 mph on his stock bodied FB as well. And he only has a 13BT (with plenty of boost)

So again, your experience may be different.

 

To say it takes 5k/mph to go past 170mph is pretty funny.

I'm with Directfreak on this one.

 

Not to mention with 30 posts and 2 months of Rotary forum experience behind him, he probably hasn't seen it all.

Nice theory though.

 

i only saw the most recent update on his site as 10/3...I knew he was going to do the 3 rotor though I didn't think it actually fit inside!

 

I hope he can solve the engine vibrations. A true 20B is smooth (unless it's mistuned or something).

I first saw pics of his engine back in '97 when he was trying three carbs. Then in '98 I think he decided to use a 20B UIM and a custom LIM.

From that pic above, it looks like he's got a '74-'75 13B rotor housing. Next thing he needs is a yoohoo belt.

 

I'm very interested in this theory as well. What exactly would you be buying/doing with every $5000 to gain 1 mph.

Honestly, all it takes is decent hp (probably around 400-500) combined with the right gearing and enough rpm to achieve those sort of speeds. Toughest part would be having the ***** to try that in a 1st gen.

 

I'm with REVHEAD on this one: since Hitman estimates about 600-800hp, and hasn't got stock gearing (nor box or diff, btw) it's not impossible as such.
Of course I don't know if it's either true or false, I just say it's possible.
And, yep, trying that speed in a first gen must be rather scarry.

 

Only a couple questions. If it's so cheap and easy, then where are your guys 200mph first gens? Or better yet where are your 160 mph first gens? There's a lot more involved than simple horspower and gearing, but what would I know, I've only got a lousy 31 posts. My credentials are quite extensive, much more than knowing how to make a simple rats nest removal lesson (pratch) and I've only recently discovered this forum.

 

Well, 160mph 1st gens aren't at all rare.
I'm not sure about the guys in the first gen forum, but I do know several cars in Germany who will go faster. And a friend with a Elford Turbo 12A claims 240km/h, which is about 150mph, and that's just a 12A with aftermarket turbo.
Considering a TII can be pushed to 270km/h (I know at least one car, but I'm sure there are more) a first gen with TII engine/tranny shouldn't be much slower (1st gen is lighter, hasn't got bad aerodynamics etc)
Don't forget Hitmans 3 rotor isn't a 20B, but a 3 rotor high compression 13B-based engine. Making 600hp with such an engine must be possible. As for "cheap"... Well, nothings either cheap or easy in that region. But it's possible to outperform a 3rd gen with less budget. That's the point.

 

No need to make enemies by personal attacks.

130 mph is stock, 105 hp. Since air resistance increases proportionally to the velocity sqaured, and tire drag above a certain velocity aproximately proportional to velocity^2.5, It should only take 400-500 hp to make a stock bodied 1st gen hit 200 mph, if the gearing is right. Whether or not the 1st gen would become a airplane at that speed, I'm not so sure.

According to my calculations, I should have a 160 mph 1st gen... and I'd be gear limited. If I can do it, then there is more 160 mph first gens than you think.

Maybe you're thinking trap speeds for the 1/4 mi? If so, then I agree with you completely 160 mph trap is obtainable but not easy, 200 mph traps are insane, and would require tons of power, and some time tweaking the body in a wind tunnel.

 

I never said it was impossible, only improbable. The claim on hitmans web site was that this car was cheaper than a buying a third gen. I'd really like to know what he honestly has into it. It's a simple matter of physics meets economics. If you want to go fast then you got to have the $. If you want to go faster then you got to have even more $. There are plenty of 160 mph cars out there, but fewer 170 mph cars and yet even fewer 180 mph cars and hardly any 200+ mph cars. Oh yes, I've seen plenty of 600-800hp cars that can't do 200mph.

 

Actually, you are wrong. The website says, and I quote, "Yes , you can get newer cars such as the 3rd generation RX-7 , but this car is much cheaper to build , and by the time I have finished , will out-perform it in almost all aspects, except maybe the looks department." Everything for an FD is expensive, we all know that.

However, I do agree with you that getting an FB to go 160+ is quite difficult. They aren't exactly low on coefficient of drag. Theory and math are one thing, real world is another.

 

160mph hard to do? i doubt that in a first gen. I have a turbo 2 with pretty much the same setup i had in my first gen (rip). i got it up to 145-150 very very easily, with plenty more to go. So if you put the setup with a correct gearbox, 1989+ turbo one. I see no problem seeing a turbo first gen doing 160. Only problem i would see is the ***** to go that fast. now i believe 200+ is very possible, but very sketchy going that fast. Riceracing has done it with 550bhp? so a 3 rotor car with more power close to 600bhp cant do it?

btw ill give setzep 50$ to take a camera in his car and do 160mph to prove it. even though his speedo max's out at 140, rpm based calculations are more accurate. Are you down setzep?

 

I'm helping the community one tutorial at a time - "simple" or not, you haven't made one have you? Your credentials are quite unknown on this forum. You could've won the nobel peace prize, but something in your immediately defensive tone leads me to beleive otherwise...

Stock and tuned well, the GSL will see 137 mph. I shouldn't imagine that the next 23 mph would be super hard to achieve to get a 160 mph car. However, most of us don't bother with the track, and therefore will never (hopefully) have our cars fast enough to say "yeah, i have a 160 mph FB". At least, I hope with all of the teenagers here that you're not insinuating that they should try and be NASCAR drivers on the freeway...