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Front And Rear Coilovers Possible?

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Old 11-06-11, 07:04 AM
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Front And Rear Coilovers Possible?

I have been looking for coilovers for the FB. I have found several places with front coil overs. But none with rear. Is it even possible to do coil overs in the rear? perhaps i am misunderstanding the rear suspension. I don't see the point of front only coilovers. if it is possible to do front and rear coilovers, where can i buy them?
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Old 11-06-11, 10:04 AM
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Rear coilovers don't work on the FB because the chassis in the area of the shocks is not strong enough to support the entire weight of the vehicle. There is an alternative that provides all the benefits and that is the Re-Speed Rear adjustable spring perches. You get your choice of spring rates and adjustable ride height.
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Old 11-06-11, 11:53 AM
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coil over means that the coil spring is over the shock, the SA/FB isn't in the rear. however you can still get adjustable perches, or ride height adjusters. its the same thing as a coil over kit, its just not literally a coil over
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Old 11-06-11, 03:18 PM
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I see now i figured it was something like that. I have tried lowering springs in the past on other cars and they never work right. I need something adjustable.I had looked on respeed's site under the "street" section but didn't see anything, then i looked under "race" and there it was. Thanks
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Old 11-07-11, 04:22 PM
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I started out with "lowering springs" too, and hated them. Not firm enough, and they actually raised the car. Thank God for www.re-speed.com




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Old 11-13-11, 04:50 PM
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I did the Ground Control coil over on an SE years ago. Front perch had to be cut off and moved. The rear was easy, as it was pretty much plug and play. It was fully adjustable (height), but they were noisy as he'll! The car would get all the way low though. Looked sick but you had to raise it up a little to be drivable.

Last edited by dayton; 11-13-11 at 04:51 PM. Reason: Misspell
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Old 11-13-11, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Kentetsu View Post
I started out with "lowering springs" too, and hated them. Not firm enough, and they actually raised the car. Thank God for www.re-speed.com




.
Spec 7 springs have multiple dead coils. That way you could cut it to suit the type of install you want. Without damaging the spring rate. I'm just saying... RE-Speed is a good alternative if you have RE-Speed money. Glad you like them.
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Old 11-13-11, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by rwatson5651 View Post
Rear coilovers don't work on the FB because the chassis in the area of the shocks is not strong enough to support the entire weight of the vehicle.
Not true.

I race my FB with Camaro strange engineering coil over setup.

AE86 Rears work too. (which is the same suspension conversion BTW)

Everyone says that the shock spud mount can't hold the weight. There is a lot of bracing in this area and the shock has to resist and stop movement either up or down. Some of the FB owners have some fairly stiff valving on their shocks. It's no worse.

My track thrashing puts a fairly large nail in the coffin.

My FB track car uses Strange Engineering shocks set on 12 (highest) and I use 450lb springs on a 2400lb car. There is no deformation in the towers in 2 years.

If you are worried about it, just put a cross brace in that's tied to the floor. (which i don't have, nor do i lose sleep over)

MKII Toyota Supra's also use AE86 conversions with out incident.
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Old 11-13-11, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by nofords View Post
Not true.

I race my FB with Camaro strange engineering coil over setup.

AE86 Rears work too. (which is the same suspension conversion BTW)

Everyone says that the shock spud mount can't hold the weight. There is a lot of bracing in this area and the shock has to resist and stop movement either up or down. Some of the FB owners have some fairly stiff valving on their shocks. It's no worse.

My track thrashing puts a fairly large nail in the coffin.

My FB track car uses Strange Engineering shocks set on 12 (highest) and I use 450lb springs on a 2400lb car. There is no deformation in the towers in 2 years.

If you are worried about it, just put a cross brace in that's tied to the floor. (which i don't have, nor do i lose sleep over)

MKII Toyota Supra's also use AE86 conversions with out incident.
I stand corrected!

I guess that is what I get for parroting information rather than speaking from experience.

You do have to admit, it is a rather common misconception.
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Old 11-13-11, 08:56 PM
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You do have to admit, it is a rather common misconception.
Unfortunately, yes it is.
Considering QA-1, T3, Megan Racing, Strange and Competition Engineering (and others) make kits specifically designed to do what some say can't be done for AE86, Celica's, Supra's, mustangs and camaros.

Anyway...

Here's a couple pics stolen from my build thread way back.

Shocks and Springs:

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Installed:

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One thing i forgot to show there are these to convert the eyelet to stud mount:


Last edited by nofords; 11-13-11 at 09:05 PM.
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Old 11-14-11, 02:16 AM
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as stated above........ most front coil over kits are not simply bolt in they require some mechanical knowledge and expertise... you have to cut/grind off the old strut spring perch and then weld on the new one in the correct place.. if i would have welded mine where the directions said, i wouldn't have fit my wheels back on... let alone the 17s i have on it now...
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Old 11-14-11, 02:17 AM
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should state most for the FB
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Old 11-15-11, 06:17 PM
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Dad's SA race car has coil overs front and rear. Mine is only front. Interesting how much differently they handle.

But, yes. I know his has them. But, they come through the floor in the back. Because race car
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Old 11-16-11, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by nofords View Post

Installed:


i'm intrigued by this set up, and have a couple of questions, just to clear things up, did you first swap the AE86 rear end to your FB, or do these coil overs fit the fb rear end?

also, was there any modification to the shock mount?

how's the ride feel, do you think this could be used for street driving? (with softer springs of course)

and finally, the thing most FB owners are concerned with . . . cost?
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Old 11-16-11, 08:46 AM
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Well,

1st:
That's a GSL-SE rear in that photo

2nd:
No modifications to the shock mount only light trimming to accommodate the spring. Since i used basic shocks, the spring goes all the way to the mount. If you use the AE86 Kit, the spring cap/hat is spaced down about 2" and trimming would likely not be necessary. The other mod i did was I welded some 1.5" long tabs to the stock shock tabs to space the shock away from the axle. Depending on your shock choice, this may or may not be necessary. However: Doing this will also make the coil over vertical instead of tapering to the front as it gets closer to the axle.

3rd:
The ride is awesome. When i was tuning the motor, i had 200lb springs F and 150lb springs rear (essentially the same as RB). Ride was excellent on the street.

4th: Cost...well, my setup uses premium components. Here's the breakdown:

Strange Engineering Spherical Bearing Shocks: $145 ea x 2 = $290
Competition Engineering 12" Springs: $33 ea x 2 = $66
QA-1 Spud/Stud Mount Conversion $12 ea x 2 = $24
1.5" long Tabs w/ 1/2" hole: $4/pr x 2 = $8

Total: $388

If you don't use Spherical Bearing Shocks, and generic brand springs, the "kit"/setup can be made cheaper.
Same can be said if you can/want to make your own mount conversion set.


Other pre-packaged rear only sets:

Techno Toy Tuning (T3) has a set for $650 (AE86)

Photo from their website:


Megan Racing is ~$600 depending on vendor (AE86)

Stance is ~ $800 (They make for Camaro/Mustang & AE86)

Competition Engineering is ~$550 depending on vendor (Camaro/Mustang)

Spohn: $770 depending on vendor (Camaro/Mustang)

QA-1 Single Adj ~$550 depending on vendor (Camaro/Mustang)
QA-1 Double Adj ~$700 depending on vendor (Camaro/Mustang)

Last edited by nofords; 11-16-11 at 08:57 AM.
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Old 11-16-11, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by nofords View Post

4th: Cost...well, my setup uses premium components. Here's the breakdown:

Strange Engineering Spherical Bearing Shocks: $145 ea x 2 = $290
Competition Engineering 12" Springs: $33 ea x 2 = $66
QA-1 Spud/Stud Mount Conversion $12 ea x 2 = $24
1.5" long Tabs w/ 1/2" hole: $4/pr x 2 = $8

Total: $388

If you don't use Spherical Bearing Shocks, and generic brand springs, the "kit"/setup can be made cheaper.
Same can be said if you can/want to make your own mount conversion set.


Other pre-packaged rear only sets:
how about for spring perches, sleeves (coilover componets, minus spring)

i'm just trying to compare my options, so i can have a good idea as far as what i want, which is a fun car in some of these nc back roads.
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Old 11-16-11, 08:18 PM
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Spring perches and hats came with the shocks which are threaded body and there is no extra bits to buy...

For example: (doesn't have spherical bearings, but rather poly bushings and is non-adjustable)



These are what i used:



And if you want real fancy ones you can get double adjustable ones. (for almost twice the price)


Last edited by nofords; 11-16-11 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 11-16-11, 09:06 PM
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Thanks for all of the info. So to do the ae86 rears you need the stud adapter and a set rear ae86 coilovers?
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Old 11-16-11, 09:17 PM
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no. the AE86 ones come with the adapter.
you are going to pay for that setup as i listed above.

T3 is your best choice for those.
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Old 11-19-11, 05:44 AM
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nofords, I guess basically what we need is a link to your write-up on moving from a stock setup to your rear coilover setup. I'm fascinated! I don't fully see what all is involved here, though.



I know from my WRX days, Megan racing coils are considered one of THE best option for street coils. They may have started as an eBay special, but have actually delivered one of the most solid components in that price range on the market. Personally I was running Helix DNA's (on the WRX), but heard that the Megan's are their direct competition. I LOVED the Helix, and if we could get that level of suspension in an FB, wow!
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Old 11-19-11, 10:53 AM
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No write-up needed. Buy the T3 rear AE86 coilover's which come with all the mounting parts you''ll need. Bolt the conversion bracket to the top of the shock and put it into the stock rear upper mount hole. Weld extension tabs to the bottom of the axle to move the bottom of the strut rearwards. Bolt the bottom of the strut to the axle. Looks like if he didn't space them they would be right up against the axle.
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Old 11-19-11, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by orion84gsl View Post
Buy the T3 rear AE86 coilover's which come with all the mounting parts you''ll need. Bolt the conversion bracket to the top of the shock and put it into the stock rear upper mount hole. Weld extension tabs to the bottom of the axle to move the bottom of the strut rearwards. Bolt the bottom of the strut to the axle. Looks like if he didn't space them they would be right up against the axle.
Yup that's pretty much it!
Trim where necessary. If the car wasn't stored for the winter, I could better show where I trimmed.

The "extension" tabs were just to space my shock choice off the axle because they were fat in comparison to the AGX's that T3 uses in their kit (see photo above) and would foul the axle.

I haven't personally tried any other brands other than my piecemeal set. I don't know if there would be any specific requirements or trimming requirements for other brands.

Do so at your own risk.
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Old 11-22-11, 03:06 PM
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still have stock springs in the rear thinking bout this now looks sweet!
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Old 11-23-11, 04:47 PM
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So would you just use the rears out of the megan set or can you use the ae86 fronts as well?
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Old 11-23-11, 10:47 PM
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If it's a question on what will fit, I think the Miata front is a good contender. User bshusted has Miata fronts on his rear.

They have a retaining ring or shoulder which you can likely place a threaded sleeve over to use as an adjustable perch. The T3 kits use a shaft collar to serve the same function though the shoulder on the Miata struts is higher up. I've been wanting to get my hands on a single Miata front strut to see how the fit is with a coilover sleeve. I've seen pictures of it, but am hesitant to say this is the case without confirming.


After that all you should need is a top hat (another off the shelf part) and a spacer to makeup whatever distance you need. Think of the T3 top hat in two pieces instead of one. Follow that up with the bushings which I don't think would be too hard to source.





Just a linkback to the other relevant thread.
https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generation-specific-1979-1985-18/stupid-miata-shock-question-977418/#post10873861
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