0110-M-P

iTrader: (10)

I don't mess with A/C systems much, but I was calling around to see if someone around me had Freeze-12 to recharge my A/C system with and I got a company that still carries R-12 for their customers with classic cars. They want $80 for the recharge plus $60/lb of refrigerant.

I know some people say that they can get it for somewhere in the 30's and others say somewhere around 100. Just curious if this is too much or a fair price??

I just replaced the drier today and planned on scheduling the recharge for this weekend if I could. Just debating if I should go for the R-12 at 60 bucks a pound or find someone with Freeze-12

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

Just retro fit it to R134a or have a shop do it. That way you will be able to service it in the future. Mine is R134a and works great.

To answer your question about cost it is whatever a shop has paid for R12 that they are going to charge and it is expensive.

RotoricanNY

iTrader: (2)

R12 is expensive for a reason, it's "harmful" and it's freezing cold. it really depends if you're willing to dish out the extra cash to keep it old skool and/or feel like you're in the arctic.

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

The reason R12 is expensive is because it has not been in production for a period of time and their is a limited supply left. A supply that is supposed to be taken completely off the market if I remember correctly within the next year or so. At least that was the case years ago when I was a Service Manager.

Although R12 does cool better in our cars, today's vehicles do very well with R134a.

Jeezus

iTrader: (4)

Add some propane in the mix!

90turbo1

correct, the r12 is running out and now they are moving on to r134 it too has been deemed a greenhouse gas so it will get more expensive as liscenses will be required to purchase it.

the EPA is no joke they are wanting a ban of all sales of any refridgerant by auto parts stores and such.

i do agree if you replaced the dryer and hopefully you flushed the lines. then r134 is your safe cheap route. and it will work just fine.

OnlyOnThurs

i converted my A/C to R134....its cold enough for the texas heat and it's a hell of alot cheaper in the long run

LongDuck

Agreed. The conversion kit is simply 2 caps (hi and lo pressure) on the compressor that are screwed on over the top, along with dust caps.

I had the installer grind down the A/C compressor mount bar a bit to clear the caps for easier filling and access, and now I can recharge it every few years with my own gauge sets and bottles at $5 ea from the auto parts store.

It's just as cold as before, from what I recall - and I'm in the AZ desert.

Something to realize is that our cars get bagged on for not having good A/C, when in actuality, it's the heater core bypassing hot engine coolant through a leaky bypass valve which offsets the cooling capacity of the air conditioning.

Once I bypassed my heater core (blocked the radiator feed and side inlet under the oil filter pedestal), it was like I finally had working A/C! The heater was constantly running hot coolant through the heater core and the A/C couldn't keep up. HTH,

JesterJess

I work at a privetly owned NAPA, and we have a shelf full of Freeze-12. We stock it for our farmers that have old air conditioned tractors. I think it is around $10 a can.
PROBLEM SOLVED!

0110-M-P

iTrader: (10)

Well I went to the shop today to get it charged. I didn't decide until I got there whether or not I was going to do R12 or R134a (brought the retrofit kit with me). Last second I decided to go with the R134a and couldn't be happier. They said it was blowing at 40 degrees and I can attest to that from the drive home. Thanks for the help guys.

Next thing on the list....new window regulators and fix my tach.

OnlyOnThurs

ha i gotta fix my damn window regulator as well...damn window crank gets stuck to damn often

Tanj!

iTrader: (5)

Another option is to buy cans of R12 from ebay. Lots of it for sale there for cheap.

00RB

That is your opinion, but many others, including myself, have an entirely different opinion on the matter. Several years ago I attempted to convert an S3 to R-134a and was extremely dissatisfied with the results. Another S6 I purchased had been converted by a previous owner, also resulting in inadequate cooling. I converted both cars back to R-12.

The capabilities of the stock systems are, in my humble opinion, marginal at best. It is an indisputable fact that retrofitting a system designed for R-12 to R-134a will result in decreased cooling and a hotter interior. The two chemicals have different properties and the Laws of Thermodynamics are fairly well-understood. Hence it is impossible for it to be "just as cold as before." Any shop or vendor who claims otherwise is at best misguided or ignorant, and at worst a huckster or fraud.

The only way to successfully change to R-134a and maintain equivalent performance is to re-size the entire system. Keep that in mind, unless you live in a cooler climate and don't need the maximum air conditioning performance.

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

I appreciate your input on this matter and welcome all input.

The fact is my opinion is a "Educated" one being that I was a Service Manager for a "Upper end" repair shop and we retrofitted many R12 systems over to R134A with great success. I also managed a Auto parts Store in a very hot climate and sold many retro kits to both shops and Retail customers that had excellent results. So my input is not based on 1 or 2 examples but literally thousands of test samples.


My own 85 Se was done by myself and performed very well in 100 degree temperatures just recently.

Quote from longduck-

It's just as cold as before, from what I recall - and I'm in the AZ desert.


Quote from only on thurs-
i converted my A/C to R134....its cold enough for the texas heat

Those 2 climates are very brutal regarding heat.

It is recommended that you change your receiver drier when doing this conversion. Did your "Shops" do this?

Being a Service Manager and in the Auto parts business I have had to sit through many classes on A/C so I am well aware of the differences between R12 and R134a. It is not about the "Technical" differences but the fact that the retro fitting works.

There may be cases where it does not work and those will be contributed to faulty or failing components.

dantheman

iTrader: (4)

Not sure how you pulled that off. I converted mine a while back and it would take forever to start blowing cold, and would never get below 45 deg vent temps.

I did a full flush, replaced the dryer, ect when I did the conversion.


NOW, I am running ES-12a. Works great. The other day I had ice forming on the windshield. (temps were cool for south texas, in the 90s) Only complaint, it is VERY dependent on air moving across the condenser. You can feal the temp change when you are at a redlight. Start moving, and things get COLD.