Looking at this for my original-12A (95K mi) 80 SA - am about to do a flush.
Have been using Benz coolant for some years (happily) - so $$ of Evans not a big shock. Esp since its a lifetime switch.
The idea of a lower-pressure system is appealing for my aging water seals, the corrosion-elimination and hot-spot elimination is a plus.
Figure if its OK for Jay Leno's Bugatti, prob good enough for me.
Anyone tried this stuff?

Stu Aull
80GS
Alaska

 

No, but thanks for sharing... now I'm interested.

I don't see the harm in using it.

 

I used it on the first turbo engine I blew up. Wouldn't use it again. I can't say that the Evans was the cause, but it probably didn't do me any favors. Water has a much higher specific heat than propylene glycol, which means that Evans can't evacuate as much heat from the engine as a 50/50 water/ethylene glycol mix.

There was an extensive thread on this on the 3rd gen forum a few years ago.

 

Its probably great for cars that sit for long periods and get driven irregularly. So should work for you
Stu

Seriously, I used the same reasoning to switch to silicone brake fluid. It wasn't hydroscopic so it
could sit in the brake system for years without causing issues due to absorbing moisture. Is used by
a lot of folks for classic cars that sit a lot and are driven infrequently. Guess what tho, it has a much
lower boiling point than DOT3 fluid. I found this out the hard way at DGRR one year doing some
spirited runs in the mountains and lost all solid braking after about 8 or 9 hard uses in some turns.
I ended up swapping out the brake parts for new (cause of silicone contamination) and using
DOT 4 high temp brake fluid now. Lesson learned.

I bet its the same with this coolant, no water means less corrosion but at what cooling cost?
Elwood brings up a good point there.

 

I had it in my 90 GXL. Lowered temps too far. The car never got to full operating temp so I switched back to standard green. Be careful what you use as it can weaken coolant seals.

 

You say weaken coolant seals, and I think about the prep solution you have to use to remove water from the system. Think about how much water has seeped into the old coolant seals through the years; the prep solution for even's might end up eating the old seals.

It might be better on a fresh engine build, but if you have a fresh engine you don't have to worry about blowing a coolant seal from high pressure coolant.

 

I use it! i love it! low pressure and better cooling. It doesent eat seals.

 

My thought is the cost. I know you don't do motor swaps or pull your motor very much, but for those of us who do the cost of the fluid would become astronomical.

 

I used Evans NPG+ on my 400hp TII for a couple years with no problems.

One year racing I lost it all (block drain came out) and replaced it all with regular Sierra petsafe PG coolant at 100% strength and never swapped back to NPG+ as I never noticed any difference. 15 years later all the coolant passages still look new- 0 corrosion.

My cooling system was praised by Jei at BlackTrax as an example of a well built car to the group I went with to get tunes as it is able to do back to back to back dyno pulls without excessive temperature build-up and fast cool down.

26"x19"x3" radiator, Sierra PG coolant, stock FC oil cooler front mounted, NPR IC horizontal mount 60-1 @ 14psi and then 7670 @ 26psi.

Only other change I made through the years was to ditch the 160F thermostat for a 180F one since the engine runs right at t-stat rating and I found it ran better at 180C.

 

So you don't dilute it at all, just 100% coolant? Good to know. My only issue with that would be the potential to freeze in the winter, since the garage I'm in gets lower than 32℉.

I love the 180℉ thermostat as well, I'll always run one in my cars.

 

100% Propylene Glycol freezes at -76F.

However, I have heard that in cold climates 100% PG does become more viscous and that can cause some problems. I don't have any experience with this.

It would be best to contact Evans and pump them for information regarding this acting like you want to buy their expensive product. They note modifications to cooling system may be required for a daily driver in below freezing temperatures.

http://www.sfm.state.or.us/cr2k_subd...ZE_COOLANT.PDF

 

im using it in my rallycar ive only done about 7 ore 8 races but no problemt at all. the best part is that in 2 extreamly hot rallyés last year the engine temp went up to 120c` and i didnt have to worry at all, because the engine wont take any harm from the ekstra 20c`and the castrol 10/60 oil certanly dosnt either.
I have drained it about 6 times and i have only lost about 1 liter and i never used prep fluid. The first time i used it was right after rebuild. so i think it can easely be drained and reused. offcourse its expensive if a hose pops of during a race and spill all over, but the bright site it dosnt explode like pressuriesed water.


best regards Rasmus From Denmark
Sorry for the spelling

 

Stu, enough opinions yet? Good info being tossed out in this thread.

 

Isn’t RV antifreeze you can buy for like $3 a gallon at Walmart basically the same thing? Years ago I ran this in my race bikes and it worked great. The rules banned antifreeze but allowed water wetter, since the RV antifreeze is pink it looked just like strait water with water wetter so tech was happy, and I had freezing protection at early season races. I had no problems at all with overheating, but I don’t think I would have had problems with strait water, or water and antifreeze anyway so I am not sure exactly how well it works.

 

Yes, Marine, RV or Pet Safe Propylene Glycol is all the same stuff and cheap and is what I use a 100% after switching from Evans.

 

Thanks Guys - btw comments (most anyway ) here and discussion with Rob at Pineappleracing (.com), it sounds like its worth doing. Rob recommends it to all his clients and has been running it on various cars and builds for years. Evans make an Arctic-spec versions for up to -60F, but the "regular" is good to -40 and I store the car (outside, under a cover) winters anyway so…

I think my biggest motivation is that at some point in the near future I will be moving to AZ (Sedona) and want the heat protection. It was 86F here the other day and it is the only time I have ever seen the temp gauge actually rise to the middle of the scale. Ironically, without AC, my Alaska Summer Toy will likely become my AZ Winter Toy!!

Rob has also suggested a "desert-spec" (I guess there is someone in …AZ? making these) 3-core rad to replace my OE rad for AZ-duty too. He thinks the chinese aluminum 3-cores suffer from too-small lines that don't permit proper water flow thru them. Not worth diddling with a $130 import rad for the +$200 a good domestic 3-core. Likely the last rad I will buy so not worth risking.

Stu Aull
80GS
Alaska

 

At 86 degrees my guage stays pegged at 1/4 unless I sit at 6K for several minutes at
a time (like on spirited mountain runs in 2nd gear). Then it only moves up to about
1/3. If I were you I would be worried about the overalll cooling health of your car
especially with the move to AZ coming up.

Have you ever replaced the FMOC lines? If not thats where I would start.

 

t_g_
The FMOC was sonic cleaned by an aircraft tech co in 04 when I bought the car. Presume its working fine.(?) No leaks, as -new to look at it. Lines are RB, replaced when the Cooler was cleaned.
The AZ move is _exactly_ why I want to get ahead of the cooling system. I am having a 3-core rad made right now by PineappleRacing, with the Evans swap in mind.
In this usually-cooler part of the world, my temp gauge doesn't budge from 1/3, but in traffic it was going up to ½-ish in the 85F temps…
thanks for your thoughts.

Stu Aull
80GS
Alaska

 

Stu, that's called the "NORMAL" range, just in case you never knew. Looking forward to having you in AZ full time in the future. I may have to fly to Alaska and help you move all of those SA parts to AZ

 

I'm not using the OEM clutch fan and running twin electric fans which is probably the difference. You
may want to check the clutch fan to verify its working well.

 

HA! Yer hired!!

T_G
Clutch fan checks out, thanks!!

Checked around for 3-cores. Mazdatrix has one, but has the damnable auto-tranny outlet I would prefer to avoid. Tried Champion Rads, which is a CA company, but their rads are chinese too, which is fine if up to spec BUT they confess no guarantee their "SA"spec rad is a direct bolt-in. Mods may be needed

Rob at PineappleRacing has a local shop who fabs 3 cores using OE rad cores for him so that is likely the route I will go. Unless someone here has a secret source for proper SA 3-cores…?

Stu Aull
80GS
Alaska

 

Stu... check out Ron Davis Racing. He's local to Phoenix and they could probably build one up. If not, just wait until you arrive. There are TONS of custom rad shops here in the Valley.

 

A new radiator from rockauto should work just fine. I'm not sure I follow the obsession with 3 cores.
I know its going to AZ and its hot there but I've used one of these in over 100F weather and the
engine cooling was not an issue. Now fuel boiling is another story, just make sure to use a return
fuel setup like stock to avoid that. I used to have the fuel deadheaded to my Dell and over 100F if
I stopped it wouldn't run right for a few minutes until cooler fuel got to the carb.

 

t_g_
er - wha? FUEL boil? hmm. Mine (as most) takes some coaxing to hot start (floor it a keep cranking), but not familiar with what you are describing - something to "look forward to " in AZ heat?

RC - thanks for Ron Davis tip!
Stu
80GS
Alaska

 

Similar to vapor lock, the fuel on a deadheaded system gets so hot under the hood
that it goes to the gas state which makes the carb none too happy. With a return you
won't see this becuase nice cool fuel from the tank is always circulating. I doubt you
will see this with a stock setup.