Spyride

Hey guys, Im running into an issue with my dfidlis setup. This is the second one i've done and this time around its got me stumped. The issue Im having is a lack of spark. Im using new msd coils for leading and a known good coil for trailing along with good stock ignitors. I've got power going to the coils tested using a test light. Last time I just followed the diagram and it worked, so I didn't really experiment and look at everything and how it worked and what got power, so I'm not sure what should be lighting up. However, I get a light on both the positive and negative posts of the coils as well as both sides of the ignitor. This I expected as the coil is just an energy building loop in a circuit. But I cant get spark to the plugs, neither leading or trailing. This isnt a complicated setup, and Im at a loss as to why its not firing. I've spent the last 3 hours messing with it. Maybe one of you guys can throw something at me that I've over looked. I need this car running like yesterday, so any help is greatly appreciated.

heres a couple of pictures of the setup.


red is +
green is -
coils nearest the wheel well is leading, the coil nearest the engine is trailing.

Spyride

20 views and no help.
Well, the way I understand it is that the positive should always have power and the negative should only have power when the ignitor is triggered. This then signals the coil to blast the spark plug. If this is the case then I need to troubleshoot the ignitors, maybe they are not as good as I had though. It just seems weird to me that all 3 ignitors would go bad at the same time.

Qingdao

iTrader: (3)

What was wrong with the points ignition? I'd revert back to stock O.o


How are the coils grounded?

bumpstart

give us a better pic of both pics / wiring at dizzy and also what is going into the back of the moved j109's

t_g_farrell

iTrader: (1)

Show us how you connected the outputs from the dizzy for the leading and trailing ignitors.
The first picture looks like the trailing dizzy signal is going directly to the trailing coil. Thats
would be wrong.

Spyride

Qingdao, whats right about points ignition? And I have an 85, no points, just a cap and rotor. Nothing to adjust.
t_g_farrell, the trailing is good, its hooked up like stock. Nothing has spark though, its acting like its not getting power. Am I wrong in my assumption that - is the coil trigger? it would explain why I cant get spark, since - is always powered. As for grounding the coils, they ground to the ignitor. or maybe Im wrong about that as well. Anyway, Im testing my ignitors now, then I'll go from there.

Spyride

ok, ignitors tested good. Im at a loss. maybe my cap is f'ed IDK. this is the last thing keeping me from starting this car after 5 years. Go figure, something so easy going so wrong.

xXGslseSleeperXx

Negative will have power until the trigger(distributor wheel) is grounded, then your test light shuld turn off(or go very dim) The bodies of your ignitors are grounded right?

Qingdao

iTrader: (3)

When was the last time you washed the engine bay? Any condensation in the distributer?


The RTV'd in wires coming out of the distributer look like they have seen better days. Do you get continuty through all of them?

xXGslseSleeperXx

thats weird i reread the og problem that you cant get spark from BOTH the leading and trailing ignitors, disregard my og post. can you check the actual available voltage with a voltmeter? highly unlikely but could be that you just dont have enough primary voltage to fire the secondary. if it was just the trailing id say cap n rotor resistance but it is ALL plugs rite? even the direct fire ones. another wierd suggestion but maybe test the magnetic pick up coils near the reluctor wheel.(although i have never seen both fail at once)(and on the trailing side its original, so even if you switched the polarity on the leadings, the signal would still fire, but im sure you didn't) did the test light flash when cranking?

t_g_farrell

iTrader: (1)

You still don't have your trailing hooked up correctly. I don't see the red/green wires going into
an ignitor and then from there to the trailing coil. They are going directly to the coil. Thats not
going to work plus you have a hot lead on that same coil and that current is now going down
into the magnetic pickup. Its not a big deal initially as you can live without trailing.

The leading looks to be setup ok I think. Try disconnecting your trailing and get that working
first.

Also whats the grean/white wires go to? Is that a relay on the back side of the shock tower?

xXGslseSleeperXx

^he has the ignitor hooked correctly, isn't that the trailing ignitor on the side of the disrtibutor? or are you talking about the red and green wires inside the distributor that are coming of the magnetic pickup. those are on a pigtail and that connector is part of the body of the disrtibutor no?

t_g_farrell

iTrader: (1)

I see no trailing ignitor, maybe I'm missing it but it looks like the output from the trailing
dizzy mag pickup is going directly to the trailing coil.

xXGslseSleeperXx

its there. see the black box mated to the side right next to vac adv. diaphragms. only the ignitor hooks up with those offset prongs in that fashion(like a T). the red green wires that are hooked to the mag. pickup are side by side in a female connector inside the distributor.

Spyride

Farrell, the ignitor is attached to the dizzy. 3rd pic in post 6. the red and greed wires are attached to the ignitor, otherwise it would look like the first pic of the same post. I had the test light hooked to the negative side of the lead coils and no dimming, Im beginning to wonder if the dizzy's magnetic pick ups are toasted. I got this engine about 2 years ago, and I don't remember if it sat out in the elements or not. Theres a bit of rust formed up on the pick ups inside the dizzy. Time to dig through the FSM and find the troubleshooting procedures for that.

Spyride

Oh, and those other two wires, the green is the tach signal, and the white is the relay switch.

xXGslseSleeperXx

yes if its both trailing and leading and they dont flash the light at cranking i would definately start at the magnetic pick ups. im at work and dont have my fsm on me but i do remember diagnosing a bad distributor on an ae86 not to long ago and i believe the pick ups should have 1000- to 1400 ohms if i remember correctly. definately clean the rust of of them tho. But do check your fsm!

Spyride

the FSM calls for 650

t_g_farrell

iTrader: (1)

Ah I see the ignitor now, my bad.

Also make sure the air gap is correct for the reluctor to the mag pickup. If its too wide you'll never see a signal. Thats in the FSM as well.

xXGslseSleeperXx

i know it was for a different car but Damn i was way off! did they test good?

Spyride

650 +- 50, I was at 689, so yeah, they are good. I havent checked the air gap, but it looks bigger then .5 to .9 mm.

xXGslseSleeperXx

nice! let us know what happens!

Spyride

Gap is good to, Everything tests out. So now Im redoing the wires that go from the dizzy to the ignitors. They were some left over wires from some speakers I bought years ago. Maybe the connectors were junk, IDK. Hopefully this works.

xXGslseSleeperXx

sounds like you went over just about everything! if the ignitors and pick up coils are good there should be no problem getting a ground to the negative side of the ignition coil.(unless the wires are bad like you say) Did you do the screwdriver test with the pick up coils to check for a signal?

Twilightoptics

iTrader: (1)

When you say spark isn't getting to the plugs, have you checked for spark out of the coil itself while cranking?