Clean slate. What would you do?
06-28-15, 02:08 PM
#1
Clean slate. What would you do?
Hey guys, I have a very good condition gsl se chassis that I can't decide what to do with. There are a couple factors contributing to my indecisiveness...A. I already have a street FD, so I don't really need anything crazy fast. B. I also have a running/driving 83 gsl w/ four wheel disc that I can simply swap the drivetrain and suspension over from.
The only thing I know for sure is, the car will be completely resprayed inside and out with the oem creamy white color. And the engine bay will be sprayed the same color blue as the air cleaner (mazda impulse blue?). 95% of the work done by me with a budget of 10-15k.
Here are my scenarios:
1. N/A cruiser. 12a or 13b N/A. Restomod style. Swap over drivetrain/suspension from 83 gsl
pros: cheap, easy, reliable, I actually like cruising slow in this car
cons: maybe boring, underside of 83 gsl is extremely rusty could be a battle swapping over parts
2. nasty street/autox car. 13b rew single turbo. Vmount (front end of chassis is already tubed specifically for vmount). Full interior.
pros: basically a twin of my FD, lots of spare parts on hand
cons: basically a twin of my FD, redundant?, will this swap put me in some impossible class for autox?
3. drag car. 5.3 LS turbo. Full cage. No interior
pros: lots of fun, something different for me
cons: $$, maintenance, limited use
4. track machine. 13b rew single turbo. Vmount. Full cage. No interior. Non street legal.
pros: lots of fun, spare parts, I'd love to get into competitive racing
cons: $$, maintenance, limited by FB chassis?
What would you do?
The only thing I know for sure is, the car will be completely resprayed inside and out with the oem creamy white color. And the engine bay will be sprayed the same color blue as the air cleaner (mazda impulse blue?). 95% of the work done by me with a budget of 10-15k.
Here are my scenarios:
1. N/A cruiser. 12a or 13b N/A. Restomod style. Swap over drivetrain/suspension from 83 gsl
pros: cheap, easy, reliable, I actually like cruising slow in this car
cons: maybe boring, underside of 83 gsl is extremely rusty could be a battle swapping over parts
2. nasty street/autox car. 13b rew single turbo. Vmount (front end of chassis is already tubed specifically for vmount). Full interior.
pros: basically a twin of my FD, lots of spare parts on hand
cons: basically a twin of my FD, redundant?, will this swap put me in some impossible class for autox?
3. drag car. 5.3 LS turbo. Full cage. No interior
pros: lots of fun, something different for me
cons: $$, maintenance, limited use
4. track machine. 13b rew single turbo. Vmount. Full cage. No interior. Non street legal.
pros: lots of fun, spare parts, I'd love to get into competitive racing
cons: $$, maintenance, limited by FB chassis?
What would you do?
06-28-15, 02:39 PM
#2
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i've had every year and model Rx7, up to 1994, and a couple Rx8's, and i did a 3 rotor FC, and currently have and REW swapped FC, and a Peripheral port 1st gen.
IMO, the O being rather crucial, the 1st gen's strengths are its simplicity, directness and its ability to be quite light. this means it doesn't need to be fast to be fun, because it can be very direct and immediate.
so i would do 1, you could have a pretty simple, minimal car that isn't fast in a straight line, but is just fun to drive (and it'll be reliable too, and it'll do track days/auto-x/drag strip without having to really do anything). for an engine, the Rx8 motor appeals to me, as it makes ~230hp at the flywheel, and you can run a muffler, and a cat if you wanted. #2 would be a mildly done NA engine, https://www.rx7club.com/time-slips-d...-port-1006884/
IMO, the O being important, a turbo engine makes power, but you loose the simplicity, and directness, which also removes the fun. i have driven the REW swapped FC and the P port back to back, and the turbo car feels like its constipated. its slower too. its only fun because between 2500and 3200rpm the boost goes from 0-13psi, under and over that its pretty flat.
with the 2,3,4 any race car needs to follow rules, and turbo/engine swaps will have you running with really fast stuff.
IMO, the O being rather crucial, the 1st gen's strengths are its simplicity, directness and its ability to be quite light. this means it doesn't need to be fast to be fun, because it can be very direct and immediate.
so i would do 1, you could have a pretty simple, minimal car that isn't fast in a straight line, but is just fun to drive (and it'll be reliable too, and it'll do track days/auto-x/drag strip without having to really do anything). for an engine, the Rx8 motor appeals to me, as it makes ~230hp at the flywheel, and you can run a muffler, and a cat if you wanted. #2 would be a mildly done NA engine, https://www.rx7club.com/time-slips-d...-port-1006884/
IMO, the O being important, a turbo engine makes power, but you loose the simplicity, and directness, which also removes the fun. i have driven the REW swapped FC and the P port back to back, and the turbo car feels like its constipated. its slower too. its only fun because between 2500and 3200rpm the boost goes from 0-13psi, under and over that its pretty flat.
with the 2,3,4 any race car needs to follow rules, and turbo/engine swaps will have you running with really fast stuff.
06-29-15, 07:56 AM
#3
It's hard to not think a bunch of crazy thoughts when you see a stripped chassis/blank canvas. But I think you are right, going the N/A cruiser route will be less expensive and probably more rewarding in the long run.
06-29-15, 09:20 AM
#4
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a street car is about YOU having fun, it doesn't matter if you're passing people or not.
06-29-15, 12:02 PM
#6
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06-29-15, 04:15 PM
#8
I'd go with an N/A build personally. TII and REW swaps are fun, but it's much cheaper and faster to build a carb'ed motor. For that chassis I'd do a huge port N/A motor at first and see how you like it when it's completed - then move on from there. I'll let you ride in the TII swapped FB when it's done and that might help your decision 
06-29-15, 04:49 PM
#10
That's the thing.. I have a mint 85 se chassis that is completely stripped (no suspension, no motor, no interior) with a tubed front end, there is really nothing left to preserve. And I have my 83 gsl that will be the parts car since there is fist sized holes in the floor and wheel wells. A stock restoration would be really cool, but I just don't think there's enough there to do it right and in a decent time span.
here is what I'm working with, I have it strapped to my little homemade cart
here is what I'm working with, I have it strapped to my little homemade cart
06-29-15, 05:08 PM
#11
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for inspiration. Re Amemyia, its a late SA ~84, bridge port 13B, tooth-hurty horsepower. not much else!
ha and take that computer! i uploaded the picture sideways, so when it spun it 90 degrees for no reason, its correct
ha and take that computer! i uploaded the picture sideways, so when it spun it 90 degrees for no reason, its correct
06-29-15, 06:07 PM
#12
I'd go with an N/A build personally. TII and REW swaps are fun, but it's much cheaper and faster to build a carb'ed motor. For that chassis I'd do a huge port N/A motor at first and see how you like it when it's completed - then move on from there. I'll let you ride in the TII swapped FB when it's done and that might help your decision
Hey wth are you doing in this section? Leave us classy FB gentlemen be
seriously though, I think I would trade both of them for an adaptronic PnP
Yes. That's absolutely perfect inspiration (besides the body louvers and wing). It's all starting to come together in my mind now...big port carbed 13b, light cage/roll bar, semi stripped interior, generous suspension mods...that sounds easy and fun as hell. Thank you
06-30-15, 03:35 PM
#16
count another vote here for the simple N/A route. if you want to get fancy, then MSP it. if not, just a nice 6-port and your choice of intake setup. good, reliable fun that should make for a decent project, but not take years to complete ... and still get you in trouble if you get TOO complacent.
nice to see someone else take time to enjoy and declare the small victories in life.
nice to see someone else take time to enjoy and declare the small victories in life.
06-30-15, 03:48 PM
#17
You guys know my answer. Hogged Nikki on an old school 74 spec ported 13B with modern nitrided (81-85) 12A side plates. RB light steel flywheel and long primary exhaust. This is how they should have come from the factory. Direct fire ignition too.
07-04-15, 07:21 AM
#20
Old [Sch|F]ool
That's the thing.. I have a mint 85 se chassis that is completely stripped (no suspension, no motor, no interior) with a tubed front end, there is really nothing left to preserve. And I have my 83 gsl that will be the parts car since there is fist sized holes in the floor and wheel wells. A stock restoration would be really cool, but I just don't think there's enough there to do it right and in a decent time span.
I've never seen anything partially tube framed that was remotely square. IMO tube framing is just the first leg of a one way trip to the junkyard, not something you want on any car that you care about.
Last edited by peejay; 07-04-15 at 07:23 AM.
07-04-15, 09:53 AM
#21
1. So I basically just need to find a 4 port 13b (since 6 port doesn't take kindly to porting?) and put the plates from my 12a on it?
2. Where do you guys get your motors? I found nothing on ebay. I looked on mazdatrix and racing beat websites, and their prices seem crazy...plus I wanted to do the rebuild myself rather than having a pre made block.
NO
Use it as parts to fix the '83 body. Or cut up the '83 shell to un-**** the front end on the '85.
I've never seen anything partially tube framed that was remotely square. IMO tube framing is just the first leg of a one way trip to the junkyard, not something you want on any car that you care about.
I've never seen anything partially tube framed that was remotely square. IMO tube framing is just the first leg of a one way trip to the junkyard, not something you want on any car that you care about.
What is the best option? The 83 chassis is waaay rusted out, I'm not saying there is no chance of saving it, but damn it would be a lot of work.
Thanks for the guidance guys
07-04-15, 10:25 AM
#22
Old [Sch|F]ool
Okay that isn't really as tube framed as I expected. It still has the chassis rails and shock towers in place. That's good. If the body panels still fit straight, paint it and put it together. Covering up the holes so the cooling system works will be a little bit of a pain, but who said any of this would be simple?
Know what the effective difference is between a GSL-SE engine with late 12A side housings, and an early 13B with late 12A side housings? The GSL-SE based engine has better chrome...
If you put 12A side housings on a GSL-SE engine, you HAVE a 4 port 13B. 13B and 12A used the same side housings per year produced. They just stopped making 4 port 13Bs before they stopped making 4 port 12As.
The '74 13B had somewhat bigger ports but in the real world, it only makes a difference if you're racing against other people who are rules limited to unported housings, which also implies that everything ELSE is done to the nines. This isn't you, there's no need to hunt down some ultra rare rotor housings.
Know what the effective difference is between a GSL-SE engine with late 12A side housings, and an early 13B with late 12A side housings? The GSL-SE based engine has better chrome...
If you put 12A side housings on a GSL-SE engine, you HAVE a 4 port 13B. 13B and 12A used the same side housings per year produced. They just stopped making 4 port 13Bs before they stopped making 4 port 12As.
The '74 13B had somewhat bigger ports but in the real world, it only makes a difference if you're racing against other people who are rules limited to unported housings, which also implies that everything ELSE is done to the nines. This isn't you, there's no need to hunt down some ultra rare rotor housings.
Last edited by peejay; 07-04-15 at 10:30 AM.
07-05-15, 09:27 PM
#23
)Anyways, build the SE chassis. The way it is right now - I'd make a race car out of it. That's just me though, because I have a street beast cruiser in the making and want to make a ultralight, super simple race car right now. Swap all the important stuff from the 83 into this chassis and make it into whatever your heart desires
07-05-15, 10:03 PM
#24
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Don't even try to save that 83, it's so far beyond gone it's scary. I inspected it with him during the purchase, to any of you wondering, and it's so far beyond being able to save I don't think Jesus himself would want to do it - and he can save anyone! (Wow, that sounds sooooo cliche now that I typed it out )
)
07-06-15, 01:07 PM
#25
Old [Sch|F]ool
How bad is it? I've had cars where I had to zipscrew the control arm brackets to 3' long pieces of angle iron so they could go forward enough to meet floor that zip screws would find purchase in.
Kind of like this but more extensive, and under an RX-7:
Kind of like this but more extensive, and under an RX-7:
Last edited by peejay; 07-06-15 at 01:10 PM.