Best Oil Filter???
10-24-05, 06:02 PM
#51
Wheel Revolutionist!
Only one thing good about the frams above they match your engine bay. I use K&N oil filters ever since i found out they made them. They have 10 micron filtration. They have served ,me well over the past 2 oil changes.
10-24-05, 10:28 PM
#53
EliteHardcoreCannuckSquad
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Acton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,126
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
Originally Posted by Kentetsu
I just picked up a K&N filter at Autozone, I was pretty surprised to find it there but got lucky I guess...
Including the Subaru's mentioned above in the link d0ntdreamit posted...
10-25-05, 07:50 PM
#54
Rotary Freak
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,711
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE=d0ntdreamit]
The facts supporting everyone's hatred of Fram Oil Filters seem to be their low price and their 200 sq inch filter area.
That's not even the half of it. The biggest issue is the poor and inconsistent construction and the subsequent game of Russian Roulette as you spin the filter on and hope that this one isn't the one that's going to come apart and clog vital oil passages.
"I remember several years ago Consumer Reports did an oil filter test. Guess which one was the clear winner? Fram! Now unless Fram has been bought out and moved to China and changed their specs I would expect that they're still decent."
Several years ago Fram used to make decent filters. But over the years they've changed their specs and cheapened them as they saw fit. No word on where they'e made.
I wonder if the guy who made this quote really meant Consumer Reports. Or could he/she have gotten them confused with Consumer Digest? Consumer Reports has an air-tight rep for not being able to be bought off by anybody. Not sure about Consumer Digest and a few others.
Also drivers of other cars seem to be just as oil filter retentive as we are.
I'd say there's probably a very good reason for that--- and the fact that so many who are even remotely mechanically inclined shun Fram should be anybody's first clue.
The facts supporting everyone's hatred of Fram Oil Filters seem to be their low price and their 200 sq inch filter area.
That's not even the half of it. The biggest issue is the poor and inconsistent construction and the subsequent game of Russian Roulette as you spin the filter on and hope that this one isn't the one that's going to come apart and clog vital oil passages.
"I remember several years ago Consumer Reports did an oil filter test. Guess which one was the clear winner? Fram! Now unless Fram has been bought out and moved to China and changed their specs I would expect that they're still decent."
Several years ago Fram used to make decent filters. But over the years they've changed their specs and cheapened them as they saw fit. No word on where they'e made.
I wonder if the guy who made this quote really meant Consumer Reports. Or could he/she have gotten them confused with Consumer Digest? Consumer Reports has an air-tight rep for not being able to be bought off by anybody. Not sure about Consumer Digest and a few others.
Also drivers of other cars seem to be just as oil filter retentive as we are.
I'd say there's probably a very good reason for that--- and the fact that so many who are even remotely mechanically inclined shun Fram should be anybody's first clue.
10-25-05, 07:52 PM
#55
Rotary Freak
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,711
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TopGunM2k
What about Bosch filters - they any good? - cause I've been using them as an upgrade from the crappy Frams.
10-25-05, 09:52 PM
#56
The guy in charge of engine rebuilds at AIM Tuning (all rotary, about 1-2 rebuilds a week I'd guess) absolutely swears by Purolator PureONE's. Now, I don't know about you guys, but if a guy from one the best rotary tuning shop in the midwst (or east of California) who stares at the inside of rotary engines 5 days a week says a PureONE is the filter to buy, then I'll believe him. It's the only filter they stock.
As vipernicus said, the ONLY design drawback to the PureONE is the unproven assumption that the filtering element restricts flow to a high degree. Just peoples guesses, and apparently viper has already disproven that theory.
BTW, if you don't know about AIM, check out vol. 2 issue 3 of RX Tuner. They are doing RX Tuner's project InSAne, a complete ground-up build of an SA.
As vipernicus said, the ONLY design drawback to the PureONE is the unproven assumption that the filtering element restricts flow to a high degree. Just peoples guesses, and apparently viper has already disproven that theory.
BTW, if you don't know about AIM, check out vol. 2 issue 3 of RX Tuner. They are doing RX Tuner's project InSAne, a complete ground-up build of an SA.
10-25-05, 09:58 PM
#57
Fast-Trash
Originally Posted by PaulAber
Is that a full flow oil filter? Or the same as stock? I can't see how you have the oil lines run. Looks nice though. And yes get rid of that fram!
10-25-05, 10:39 PM
#58
no clever remarks...
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: WA State
Posts: 778
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fram part number for the old tall oil filter is PH2849 which translates into a Wix 51347. Thread size for the filters are 20X1.5 MM. I will personally be using a Wix 51347 filter from now on because they are taller and wider than any other filter I know that would fit. Also Wix filters are my personal favorite and the best I know of next to say a K&N or Amsoil as far as quality. The wix filters have an anti-drain back and also an bypass valve. Basically thar means that when you shut of your car the oil that was in your filter, stays in your filter instead of draining back down and having to re-pressurize next start up.
10-25-05, 11:07 PM
#59
Full Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: huntsville,ala
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE=Aviator 902S]
The facts supporting everyone's hatred of Fram Oil Filters seem to be their low price and their 200 sq inch filter area.
That's not even the half of it. The biggest issue is the poor and inconsistent construction and the subsequent game of Russian Roulette as you spin the filter on and hope that this one isn't the one that's going to come apart and clog vital oil passages.
--->why is this game of Russian Roulette only limited to Fram?
"I remember several years ago Consumer Reports did an oil filter test. Guess which one was the clear winner? Fram! Now unless Fram has been bought out and moved to China and changed their specs I would expect that they're still decent."
Several years ago Fram used to make decent filters. But over the years they've changed their specs and cheapened them as they saw fit. No word on where they'e made.
--->why is this only limited to Fram?
I wonder if the guy who made this quote really meant Consumer Reports. Or could he/she have gotten them confused with Consumer Digest? Consumer Reports has an air-tight rep for not being able to be bought off by anybody. Not sure about Consumer Digest and a few others.
---> ok you got me there, I don't know the guy that made the quote
Also drivers of other cars seem to be just as oil filter retentive as we are.
I'd say there's probably a very good reason for that--- and the fact that so many who are even remotely mechanically inclined shun Fram should be anybody's first clue.
--->that's flawed reasoning like saying "I wouldn't say it if it wasn't true to it must be true"
In short, the points you made can be said about anything. Can you site a study comparing effectiveness of different oil filters? "unless you have data, you only have an opinion", from a Statistical Process Control Course
Originally Posted by d0ntdreamit
The facts supporting everyone's hatred of Fram Oil Filters seem to be their low price and their 200 sq inch filter area.
That's not even the half of it. The biggest issue is the poor and inconsistent construction and the subsequent game of Russian Roulette as you spin the filter on and hope that this one isn't the one that's going to come apart and clog vital oil passages.
--->why is this game of Russian Roulette only limited to Fram?
"I remember several years ago Consumer Reports did an oil filter test. Guess which one was the clear winner? Fram! Now unless Fram has been bought out and moved to China and changed their specs I would expect that they're still decent."
Several years ago Fram used to make decent filters. But over the years they've changed their specs and cheapened them as they saw fit. No word on where they'e made.
--->why is this only limited to Fram?
I wonder if the guy who made this quote really meant Consumer Reports. Or could he/she have gotten them confused with Consumer Digest? Consumer Reports has an air-tight rep for not being able to be bought off by anybody. Not sure about Consumer Digest and a few others.
---> ok you got me there, I don't know the guy that made the quote
Also drivers of other cars seem to be just as oil filter retentive as we are.
I'd say there's probably a very good reason for that--- and the fact that so many who are even remotely mechanically inclined shun Fram should be anybody's first clue.
In short, the points you made can be said about anything. Can you site a study comparing effectiveness of different oil filters? "unless you have data, you only have an opinion", from a Statistical Process Control Course
10-26-05, 12:02 AM
#60
EliteHardcoreCannuckSquad
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Acton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,126
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
Originally Posted by d0ntdreamit
--->that's flawed reasoning like saying "I wouldn't say it if it wasn't true to it must be true"
In short, the points you made can be said about anything. Can you site a study comparing effectiveness of different oil filters? "unless you have data, you only have an opinion", from a Statistical Process Control Course
In short, the points you made can be said about anything. Can you site a study comparing effectiveness of different oil filters? "unless you have data, you only have an opinion", from a Statistical Process Control Course
The Fram IS poorly built.
Cheap carboard ends, poorly glued on...
The wife's 97 Protoge came with a Fram doubleguard on it when we bought it. I swapped it for a Wix. When I cut open the Fram I found the filter element had started to seperate from the end pieces.
This allowed oil to bypass the filte element all together.
The filter had less had 2000mi on it.
The anti-drainback valve is also poorly built, and leaks oil back into the car.
I don't have a statisical analysis, but I do have common sense.
Leaky components with shoddy construction = a BAD filter.
And yes... this is MY OPINION...
10-26-05, 02:38 AM
#61
Full Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: huntsville,ala
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
smnc,
You got some data there. I will cut open the Fram filter the next time when I do the 2 month oil change.
It just amazes me the the religious zeal some people have about things like oil filters, bee hive oil coolers, electric fans, installing V8's, removing the rat's nest, installing an FC's fuse box....did I miss any?
Just like Suburu, Honda, Ford, Christ-liar. Poor s ha........owners.
You got some data there. I will cut open the Fram filter the next time when I do the 2 month oil change.
It just amazes me the the religious zeal some people have about things like oil filters, bee hive oil coolers, electric fans, installing V8's, removing the rat's nest, installing an FC's fuse box....did I miss any?
Just like Suburu, Honda, Ford, Christ-liar. Poor s ha........owners.
10-26-05, 09:48 AM
#62
EliteHardcoreCannuckSquad
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Acton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,126
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
Thanks d0ntdreamit,
I've never had one desintigrate on me, and in all truethfullness, the filter mentioned above was the worst one I've seen.
But I can easily imagine a piece of glue or cardboard coming loose and making a mess of things...
And yeah, folks can get real worked up over somthing simple...
For the record, I have an e-fan, but not to free up power.
I have a fuse box, but it's not from an FC, and I have no rats nest...
I've never had one desintigrate on me, and in all truethfullness, the filter mentioned above was the worst one I've seen.
But I can easily imagine a piece of glue or cardboard coming loose and making a mess of things...
And yeah, folks can get real worked up over somthing simple...
For the record, I have an e-fan, but not to free up power.
I have a fuse box, but it's not from an FC, and I have no rats nest...
10-26-05, 05:27 PM
#63
Rotary Freak
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,711
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE=d0ntdreamit]--->
that's flawed reasoning like saying "I wouldn't say it if it wasn't true to it must be true"
In short, the points you made can be said about anything. Can you site a study comparing effectiveness of different oil filters? "unless you have data, you only have an opinion", from a Statistical Process Control Course.
LOL.
The above sounds like something straight from the pie hole of a (Liberal) defense lawyer, ie: if even a smidgen of doubt can be cast (no matter how many straws grasped in order to cast said doubt) on a particular conclusion drawn by the prosecution then it must mean the prosecution's whole case is flawed. 
But smnc's rebuttal pretty much nailed it and I couldn't have said it better. Go ahead and buy Fram filters for your RX7 if you want. I'll be sticking with my Purolator and Napa (Wix) filters.
And that's 1500 posts. Yes, I am a ***** and worst of all proud of it.
that's flawed reasoning like saying "I wouldn't say it if it wasn't true to it must be true"
In short, the points you made can be said about anything. Can you site a study comparing effectiveness of different oil filters? "unless you have data, you only have an opinion", from a Statistical Process Control Course.
LOL.
The above sounds like something straight from the pie hole of a (Liberal) defense lawyer, ie: if even a smidgen of doubt can be cast (no matter how many straws grasped in order to cast said doubt) on a particular conclusion drawn by the prosecution then it must mean the prosecution's whole case is flawed. But smnc's rebuttal pretty much nailed it and I couldn't have said it better. Go ahead and buy Fram filters for your RX7 if you want. I'll be sticking with my Purolator and Napa (Wix) filters.
And that's 1500 posts. Yes, I am a ***** and worst of all proud of it.
Last edited by Aviator 902S; 10-26-05 at 05:31 PM.
10-26-05, 07:00 PM
#64
Full Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: huntsville,ala
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You know I missed my calling for being a lawyer. I took Xerox to the Cali Bureau of Labor Standards 3 times and won. Also took the garage the rebuilt my clutch to the N J Consumer Protiection Agency and won. And a landlord to small claims and won.
And lawyering pays better than engineering, and I wouldn't have to put up with so much crap.
As for Fram, I hold no feelings for. I just cannot believe how people hold opinions on something with no basis.
Oh and the key to my legal success was acting like anything but a smooth sophisticated golden tongued attorney.
And lawyering pays better than engineering, and I wouldn't have to put up with so much crap.
As for Fram, I hold no feelings for. I just cannot believe how people hold opinions on something with no basis.
Oh and the key to my legal success was acting like anything but a smooth sophisticated golden tongued attorney.
10-26-05, 09:39 PM
#65
Rotary Freak
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,711
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by d0ntdreamit
You know I missed my calling for being a lawyer. I took Xerox to the Cali Bureau of Labor Standards 3 times and won. Also took the garage the rebuilt my clutch to the N J Consumer Protiection Agency and won. And a landlord to small claims and won.
And lawyering pays better than engineering, and I wouldn't have to put up with so much crap.
As for Fram, I hold no feelings for. I just cannot believe how people hold opinions on something with no basis.
Oh and the key to my legal success was acting like anything but a smooth sophisticated golden tongued attorney.
And lawyering pays better than engineering, and I wouldn't have to put up with so much crap.
As for Fram, I hold no feelings for. I just cannot believe how people hold opinions on something with no basis.
Oh and the key to my legal success was acting like anything but a smooth sophisticated golden tongued attorney.
As for holding opinions without basis, when it comes to Fram I beg to differ. How much more basis is necessary when you cut a used Fram filter open to only to find it didn't do its job? Most of us in engineering are intelligent enough to observe a design and form an educated opinion on the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of said design. Those of us who have seen these filters opened up are in a better position to comment on it than most.
But even for those who haven't broken out the hacksaw there's enough info in the oil filter study to draw an informed conclusion from. I've never "seen" trillions of electrons flowing through a conductor, but just because I've never actually seen them doesn't mean they're not there. And I'll be damned if I'm going to place my warm wet tongue on a live wire to confirm their existence.
10-26-05, 10:56 PM
#66
EliteHardcoreCannuckSquad
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Acton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,126
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
Originally Posted by Aviator 902S
But even for those who haven't broken out the hacksaw there's enough info in the oil filter study to draw an informed conclusion from. I've never "seen" trillions of electrons flowing through a conductor, but just because I've never actually seen them doesn't mean they're not there. And I'll be damned if I'm going to place my warm wet tongue on a live wire to confirm their existence.
Originally Posted by Aviator 902S
But smnc's rebuttal pretty much nailed it and I couldn't have said it better. Go ahead and buy Fram filters for your RX7 if you want. I'll be sticking with my Purolator and Napa (Wix) filters.
I calls 'em as I sees 'em
And that's 1500 posts. Yes, I am a ***** and worst of all proud of it.
THIS is post whoring!!!
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=61871
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=61981
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=61933
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=62210
And that's why I'll probably neve be a MOD... Lol...
10-26-05, 10:59 PM
#67
Full Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Aviator 902S
Since the oil filter study was updated Quaker State has changed hands. It's now owned by Penzoil, and Penzoil has their filters manufactured by none other than Fram.
10-26-05, 11:29 PM
#68
Originally Posted by d0ntdreamit
It just amazes me the the religious zeal some people have about things like oil filters, bee hive oil coolers, electric fans, installing V8's, removing the rat's nest, installing an FC's fuse box....did I miss any?
Just like Suburu, Honda, Ford, Christ-liar. Poor s ha........owners.
10-27-05, 08:44 AM
#69
Waffles - hmmm good
iTrader: (1)
20 years ago Fram was the filter to use and Delco, Purolator and others were not made as well. Times change, Fram has been coasting on their rep for awhile and their bean counters have been whittling away at the product which ultimatly will drive the quality of any good product into the ground.
Purolator went back to the drawing board and put together a better product now.
The studys where they tear them apart are really convincing. So much so that I switched and I used to use Frams for everything.
Heres another example, which I'm sure will draw some fire. Look at Sears Craftsman tools. I used those for a long time because of the lifetime replacement warranty, but lately I've been breaking Craftsman sockets and such so often that the replacement warranty is actually not satisfying me. I'm in the middle of some project and something breaks, say once a year, thats not bad. Lately its been everytime I'm doing something the damn things are breaking. They must have changed something in the metal mixture to cause these breaks whcih probably is saving them money. It will cost them a customer in the long run. I'm contemplating getting tools from a better vendor. Not sure who yet, but thats another thread.
Purolator went back to the drawing board and put together a better product now.
The studys where they tear them apart are really convincing. So much so that I switched and I used to use Frams for everything.
Heres another example, which I'm sure will draw some fire. Look at Sears Craftsman tools. I used those for a long time because of the lifetime replacement warranty, but lately I've been breaking Craftsman sockets and such so often that the replacement warranty is actually not satisfying me. I'm in the middle of some project and something breaks, say once a year, thats not bad. Lately its been everytime I'm doing something the damn things are breaking. They must have changed something in the metal mixture to cause these breaks whcih probably is saving them money. It will cost them a customer in the long run. I'm contemplating getting tools from a better vendor. Not sure who yet, but thats another thread.
10-27-05, 10:16 AM
#70
mods,mods,mods
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Best Filter
Your best oil filter is the one that is designed by the manufacturer. If it was not
good enough they would not sell it to you. I work @ a dealer for the last 15yrs.
If you have a genuine part available it is the one you should use. If anyone tells
you otherwise they are full of s*@t. They are trying to sell you sonething
good enough they would not sell it to you. I work @ a dealer for the last 15yrs.
If you have a genuine part available it is the one you should use. If anyone tells
you otherwise they are full of s*@t. They are trying to sell you sonething
10-27-05, 11:37 AM
#71
EliteHardcoreCannuckSquad
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Acton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,126
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
Originally Posted by paulied3
Your best oil filter is the one that is designed by the manufacturer. If it was not
good enough they would not sell it to you. I work @ a dealer for the last 15yrs.
If you have a genuine part available it is the one you should use. If anyone tells
you otherwise they are full of s*@t. They are trying to sell you sonething
good enough they would not sell it to you. I work @ a dealer for the last 15yrs.
If you have a genuine part available it is the one you should use. If anyone tells
you otherwise they are full of s*@t. They are trying to sell you sonething
OEM is NOT always the best.
In fact, it rarely is!
OEM is usually good, but consider this:
1.) Manufacturers do NOT build cars to last 20+ years. The average noth american owns their car for 3 years or less.
The total expected lifespan of a new car is about 10-12 years.
Therefore, OEM products are designed to keep a car on the road for at least 5 years, but not more than 10.
Have you heard of the 5-8 year break-down period on a car? It's age at which a lot of parts will stat wearing down and breaking.
Why? Because the car will likely be past it's first owner, and far enough past warranty that it's considered a "reliable" car. But since it'll be on it's 2nd or 3rd owner, the manufacturer is no longer making money on it, and it doesn't make sense for them to design a car to last past that point.
2.) Cars are an execise in compromise.
Cost vs. Benefit
Reliability vs. Comfort
Efficiancy vs. Perfomance
It doesn't make financial sense for a car company to spec the "best" parts for a car. They spec the "best VALUE" parts for a car.
A perfect example is tires.
Why don't all cars spec a high performance summer tire, and a winte tire as OEM equipment?
That's because of a) cost, and b) comfort
Look at the FB. Why do we have the shitty steering system from a 626 in our cars? Nobody's going to argue it's a good system. But is was a good cost saving move on Mazda's part, and the weaknesses didn't become REALLY apparent until the car was older.
3.) Sometimes it's beyond the manufacturer's hands.
Things like emission equipment is government spec'd. It's not the "best" for the car, but it is required.
Remeber, your car comany (even Mazdca) isn't looking out for your best interests. They're looking out for their own profits.
Usually they do their best to make as many customers as possible happy, because that's good for business, but not always.
Last edited by smnc; 10-27-05 at 11:39 AM.
10-27-05, 11:45 AM
#72
EliteHardcoreCannuckSquad
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Acton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,126
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
Originally Posted by t_g_farrell
I'm contemplating getting tools from a better vendor. Not sure who yet, but thats another thread.
Up here we have a brand called Mastercraft. It's from a chain of stores called Canadian Tire, and is quite similar to Sears Craftsman line (Free Replacement and everything).
We're in the process of going the the decline in quaility you described.
The reason (in our case) is that they switched manufacturers and focus.
They used to sell a "Pro Series", which were very high quality, and aimed for high-end/professional use.
They've replaced that with a "Maximum" series of tools that is aimed solidly at the home consumer with too much money.
Ironically, I've been toying with the idea of switching to Craftsman, lol...
I guess not now...
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
