When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
With zerks that is. I have some decent control arms that I am torn (bad pun, yes I know) about replacing the boots or going with new ball joints. The existing ball is tight and very difficult to move without help of leverage. Talking to others, it would be very unlikely to press them out without bending the supporting arm material which would then mean having to weld in the new ball joints. The old boots were shredded and full of dirt and some grease. I've cleaned out those as best I can and have it ready to put on a new energy poly boot. Yes, they have their drawbacks, but the test fits so far look promising once it is installed.
Question that I am looking for other opinions on is: Do I install a zerk fitting on the underside of this good sealed ball joint? My reasoning is that the old grease is full of dirt and will shorten the remaining life of the joint. If I put in a zerk, then pump new grease in to push all the old crap out (without the boot on), I can can install the boot packed with new grease and it should be better than if I just added new grease into the boot and left the old stuff around the ball, right?
Understood sealed ball joints usually have some type of nylon retainers and the aftermarket joints that come with grease fittings are usually sintered metal ball cups or similar. So grease is required to keep metal on metal touching happy... thoughts?
Replace the ball joints,30+ years old,why even bother fooling with them. Those who say they cannot be pressed out and new ones put in without damage are not doing job correctly and or aren't using the right tools. Done properly,2 tack welds are recommended on each joint. I do this on every ball joint replacement,not just RX7. If a control arm has had ball joints replaced previously,the friction on interference fit on assembly may not be what it needs to be,this will be apparent with the amount of force needed to remove them initially. It needs to be said that different brands of same # ball joint will have slightly different dimensions just like different brands of shoes,pants sold as same size. If new ball joint found to be a looser fit than desired,look at another brand. The 2 tack welds are an insurance policy. They can easily be ground down without cosmetic damage to control arm to r&r ball joint in future. Easily hidden by a coat of chassis paint. Have done many pairs of RX ball joints 50+ at least. Have had to replace a couple arms along the way for previous damage in this area. Do not see any benefit to adding grease fittings to try to increase service life. These are light cars,will take another lifetime to wear the replacements out.
A new ball is in the future of these arms. When that happens i plan on making a support tool that will hold the arm material around the circumference of the pressed joint. Already did that succsessfully on my na miata arms. The reason for the question is that i don't think these arms are that old. The arm above still has the mazda sticker, that i think came on replacement arms. Im more curious to know Which would work better to extend the life of these existing *****: putting a zerk in or just packing with new grease. Seems silly trying to save $50-80,, but every little bit helps right now. I am also the type to do it right the first time, so i may just replace them, have yet to decide. If i do, what is a good ball? I tried to get the ac delco pros, but those were put on backorder from rockauto and summit.
A new ball is in the future of these arms. When that happens i plan on making a support tool that will hold the arm material around the circumference of the pressed joint. Already did that succsessfully on my na miata arms. The reason for the question is that i don't think these arms are that old. The arm above still has the mazda sticker, that i think came on replacement arms. Im more curious to know Which would work better to extend the life of these existing *****: putting a zerk in or just packing with new grease. Seems silly trying to save $50-80,, but every little bit helps right now. I am also the type to do it right the first time, so i may just replace them, have yet to decide. If i do, what is a good ball? I tried to get the ac delco pros, but those were put on backorder from rockauto and summit.
Look for Moog ball joints,about as good a quality you can get.
Has been run with degraded/no boots. Professionally would never reuse ball joints in that scenario,sticker on arm or not. Liability issues. That arm has been in service long enough to degrade ball joint boot so must be some wear on it. From owners standpoint,work the joint back and forth to feel for galling/stiffness. Would be best to bolt bracket the bolts to strut and rotate same as would when wheels are turned.
Grease fittings in a suspension part are a sign of a substandard part. Plus if you ADD a grease fitting, you will be adding a vector for contamination.
If it's not loose, run it. There is far more liability in replacing a ball joint just for funsies because more often than not the new joint will be loose in the arm and you will either have to weld the joint to the arm or replace the arm.
Grease fittings in a suspension part are a sign of a substandard part. Plus if you ADD a grease fitting, you will be adding a vector for contamination.
If it's not loose, run it. There is far more liability in replacing a ball joint just for funsies because more often than not the new joint will be loose in the arm and you will either have to weld the joint to the arm or replace the arm.
Your funzies comment is humorous ... there is a difference between owner of an old car working on his car at home and that car being worked on by the owner of a business,lot more at stake in this scenario meaning liability for everything done to vehicle while in your shop. If that car was in my shop and owner brought in that part to be installed,it would be inspected,customer advised of options and he would sign off on repair order as such to cover owner of business from anything that may happen afterwards regarding that part. The "more often than not" statement also a bit of an exaggeration... Apologize to OP for minor hijack of thread.
Has been run with degraded/no boots. Professionally would never reuse ball joints in that scenario,sticker on arm or not. Liability issues.
there are two issues with this for these cars.
1. Mazda does not sell the ball joint separately, pressing out the joint distorts the arm enough that they felt they only would offer these as an assembly. when you replace the joint, this is an issue. many threads with replaced ball joints falling out of the arm.
2. the OEM ball joint is excellent quality. aftermarket sometimes is ok, but sometimes it is not.
taking these things into account it is a better option to reuse the OEM joint, IMO, pending it passing tests, than it is to replace the ball joint because its in the same building as you are.
i think we can both agree that with an automobile there are very few things that always apply without exception.
I don't own a business but I work in one. Torn boots are generally not cause for replacement.
FWIW, I had torn boots on my OE ball joints on my '80 for something like 30k miles. The joints didn't loosen up. Then the rest of the car failed from rust and it got scrapped.
Thanks for the input. Sounds like zerks are a no all around. Looks like I will clean up the exposed ball best I can and reassemble to do the slop test with more leverage. I have used this grease in my rebuilt miata arms: Thinking this would be good enough since I have it on hand.
The miata arms, which probably not by coincidence can only be purchased as an assembly. Those I was able to press out and press in new bushings and ball joints with no distortion. I will say the geometry of those arms vs the seven's are more advantageous to not bending though. The seven holds the ball joints in a flatter section of the sheet metal, the miata's are in a bent region that is stronger due to those bends.
Here's a few shots of those arms, blasted, primed, chassis black, superpro bushings, bauer extended lower ball joints and moog uppers. I need to drive that car more... turbo too!
My latest favorite tool Replacing the captive nuts that were a wacky thread and were no longer captive. See how the upper arm ball joint areas are upturned? That is why I think these were more resilient. Even if I support the seven's I would most likely add a couple tig tack welds in to be safe. Ohh, shiny! (plus covered in grease)
MOOG sells uppers now? The only replacement upper ball joints I have seen for Miatas were from V8 Roadsters. I know this, because I had to buy a replacement for a friend's car after one of the (replacement) ball joints fell out of the control arm while I was driving it, and I kind of mangled the hell out of it trying to get it back in so the car could be driven home.
So, er, the Miata uppers have the same problem as SA/FB control arms... if you replace the ball joint separately, you need to weld it in.
The fun part: That ball joint HAD BEEN welded in. But only two or three little tacks. I blasted three 1/2" long beads to hold it in place.
Swbtm,sounds as if you understand what's at play here. j9fd3s,thanks for your info-and sarcasm,lol... have taken in everything you've posted,am aware what Mazda recommends and sells,worked for them from days of SA thru FD in 92.An RX control arm that had had or attempted to replace a ball joint previously is a candidate for scrap pile. Replacement of joint done on case by case basis & have done many of these with no issues. Heat,proper press tools and care pressing out/in results in a successful repair. Mazda isn't only manufacturer that stipulates you can't do a repair like this and does not make available the joint by itself. Many other manufacturers do like wise and aftermarket companies deveop (quality) replacement parts to perform safe,economical repairs. peejay,of course torn ball joint boots don't immediately mean ball joint replacement,your experience with your personal car ball joints is not commonplace- with many of vehicles on road today and more often than not,grit,rust,road salt combined with normal wear and tear=need for repair.
Uh huh. And according to BMW, if you have a small amount of grease seeping from a wheel bearing seal, that is grounds for replacing the hub assembly.
My experience with my personal car is not out of line. I've been working up here in saltland for something like 21-22 years and if it isn't loose or binding, it's not worth addressing yet. The only time it would get addressed pre-emptively would be if the bushings needed replacement and the boot was torn or the control arm was flaky-rusty, then we'd replace the entire arm if available.
I think the zerk=substandard may not be the case in all circumstances. Most Moog B_J's come with grease fittings due to the internal design not using a polymer as the internal wear surfaces. I think those that have metal on metal contact require grease and maintenance intervals. As with any mechanism, the tolerances and materials of the mating components play an enormous role in the overall assembly performance vs just the existence of a grease fitting, and all of that plays into how the thing is meant to be maintained over the life of the part. Anywho, tangent complete, here's a link to the lower miata extended B_J for completeness if anyone is interested.
Also agree the zerk fitting=lesser quality is a broad statement not necessarily true. Your mention of Moog parts is a perfect example. There are some low quality parts lines out there but Moog is not one of them. Have used their products for years on domestic and foreign cars and fixed some difficult to align cars with some of their problem solver parts. There is no question their replacement,tie rod assemblies and idler arms are beefier than oe on 1st gens and certainly will last practically forever. OP,again regret the bs brought into your thread...
No worries, sounds like I gave life to a continuing conversation
Fun to get some of the long time people on a topic. Sarcasm is always appreciated.
As for moog's no longer being available, I was able to get the MOOG k9569 strut mounts that were not easy to find at r.a. While I was at it, I ended up getting some backup B_J's from Beck/Arnley 101-3880
Just chiming in here, when I redid the ball joints in the FB this winter I found that I didn't feel safe not tack welding them in place. The way these arms are designed just doesn't leave much room for the ball joints to grip and made me nervous since I had to cut my old ones out of the arms. Total pain in the a$$ they were.
10-20-17, 05:34 PM
