theFBthatcould

ok so i have a bad smoking problem its really random
first off its a 83 gsl stock 12a emmisions still on but prob dont work no cat to a mustang gt stock muffler (flowmaster) manual trans no ac
ok now to the prob

at radom times some times at cold start sometimes during hard drive sometimes just cruzin ans some times on hot start
my car just billows smoke its a whiteis blueish greyish smoke
i think its burnin oili one week i put 12 qts in it then it stoped for a week or two and started again but it didnt do it for as long a cop told me i needed new PISTON RINGS LOL i told him my car didnt have pistons he called me a lier so i popped my hood then i got out of the ticket cause i told him it was supposed to do that lol cause it didnt use oil the same way that it shoots it into the carb(which it does right?) but ya helpppp

OneRotor

iTrader: (3)

12 quarts?!?!?!?!? you overfilled your motor. Your sump is ~5 quarts.

Re-type your post with proper GRAMMAR and PUNCTUATION so we can read it and understand what your problem is.

blackdeath647

iTrader: (2)

that was a harsh but true statement, it's a bit hard to follow what you're trying to say, i'm glad you got out of the ticket tho lol.

as far as the oil it sounds like you put waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much oil in, and probably busted a control ring or something, now if it only does it sometimes then it may be a small leak, what i don't get is if it was white (coolant) or bluish/greyish (oil)

let us know for sure so that we can help you a lot better.

80's old school

iTrader: (7)

Ease up on the guy...it's obvious he is a newbie....He is genuinely looking for advice and you know what....if we all had to pass a spelling Bee to post here, we all would be looking for a new hobby...

Anyhow, from what I read he USED 12 quarts of oil. He obviously did not put 12 quarts in at one time.

Guy, your oil seals are probably shot. What kind of oil are you using? My 1980 has the original untouched 12a in her. She uses about 1 quart every 250-300 miles which is too much. Thing is, the compression is great and she runs real strong. I have just accepted that she is an oil burner for now.

Mine smokes a little on initial startup. If I idle for a while and then take off it smokes a little again. Best thing to do is to run at least 20W-50 oil and lucas oil stabilizer. Use an oil like Valvoline Maxlife or equivelent.

Whitey...hope I did not write too many typos...been a few years since I completed my Mechanical Engineering degree....and completed my MBA at Rice University....

OneRotor

iTrader: (3)

Haha. It was a very poorly written post and very difficult to read what the exact problem is (besides the oil smoke and the 12 quarts). I wasn't trying to be harsh, I guess it came across that way. I was lambasted like that on a couple of my initial posts, and it taught me very quickly to help others help me.

To the OP:

Type out your symptoms in a very clear, concise manner (list form helps). We can help you much quicker and point you in the correct direction for a fix, if there is one, so we don't waste your money with random fixes that may or may not solve the problem.

Type out:
exactly how the smoking happens.
Cold start?
Hot start?
idling?
while warming up?
during easy acceleration?
during hard acceleration?
during engine vacuum (deceleration while in gear)
etc.

what kind of oil you're using

engine mileage
mods


be very concise and to the point so we can help you out more. list form works very well. Hope to hear back from you soon.

theFBthatcould

ya im a newbie but ya sry
you would think i would be better at posting since ive been reading like everything in this forum for like 3 weeks lol

symptoms
theres enough smoke to block the sun
happens on
Cold start
Hot start
idling hot
idling cold
while warming up
during easy acceleration
during hard acceleration
during engine vacuum
basicly it will do it at any time at random no matter the running condition of the motor
when it does it it burns oil like its going out of style
12 qts in 1 week aprox 500 miles
it will do it for anywhere from 5 mins to 20 mins
and then it will stop and run fine with no smoke or oil consumption for a while

condition of the car: no major mods
mostly stock
paul(formaly worked at pineapple racing has a yellow rx3 some of you might know him)
he did some pluging off of some emissions stuff
no cats
no ac
i use 10w30 cause i get it for free i used to work at jiffy lube
a flow master
new ngk plugs(4 post sidefire )
i think it has like 200,000 miles
i got the car from Derekcat a few mo ago
has good compression has 3 peaks on both rotars
and i have a parts car with possible blown apex that i can get parts from
and if you live close plz come fix it lol
and sorry for spelling i could never spell

jinxed4dub

iTrader: (7)

I was going to buy your car for parts not to long ago. Yeah, it probably needs a rebuild. I'm willing to bet its the oil control rings. If it does it with any driving condition, and it sounds like it does it more often then not. You could look to see if your OMP is operating properly. maybe it broke internally somehow?? and is just pumping max oil. does it have OEM OMP lines? I doubt its an OMP issue. there's not allot that can go wrong with them.

theFBthatcould

so how much longer will it last?

80's old school

iTrader: (7)

It could last a long time. Basically boils down to how much oil you want to add.

Seriously, try some 20W-50 and some lucas oil stabilizer. It should help or at least it should slow the oil consumption down.

You may want to keep your eyes open on Craigslist and our for sale section for another engine.

Good luck and keep the questions coming....you learn that way!

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

Yeah, that sounds like an oil control ring problem; either worn out, or possibly sticking in the ring bores. Could also be bearings blowing by and overwhelming the oil control rings - - do you know what your oil pressure is? Low oil pressure would be an indicator of bearing problems, though either problem would mean a rebuild.

Possible but unlikely that it's the OMP - - it would be impossible to make one pump that much oil flat-out; I'd think.

Let's look at the numbers:

12 quarts in 500 miles; that's (depending on speed average) between 10 and 20 hours of running time.

By spec, at 2000 RPM the OMP is only supposed to deliver 2.5cc in 6 minutes; that's 0.42cc/min.

20 hours is 1200 minutes
1 quart is ~950cc
12 quarts is 11400cc

Using 11400cc over 1200 minutes of run time, that's an average burn rate of 9.5cc/min, or nearly 23 times the normal OMP output rate.

OneRotor

iTrader: (3)

+1 to the Lucas and the 20w50. If you find another engine close to you, I would also try 1/2 can of SeaFoam into the sump (per directions on the can) with an immiediate oil change after driving for the specified amount of time (once again, on the can). I say do this because bad oil control rings would mean constant smoking. You said that it will stop for 15-20 minutes, then start again, correct? This sounds (to me at least) like sticking oil control rings. SeaFoam will eat the carbon that is causing the rings to stick, and it may help them seat better and seal better. It's worth shot.

theFBthatcould

ive been using seafoam in the gas
ill try the oil today

OneRotor

iTrader: (3)

the 20w50 w/ Lucas stabilizer? Remember to follow the directions on the SeaFoam as an oil treatment.

theFBthatcould

oil pressure is great sits at about 30 psi at idle cruzin at 65 varys from 65 70 psi

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

Bearings are probably not at fault, then. If you want to for-sure eliminate the OMP, you can do the volume test that's detailed in the FSM. Worth doing since the OMP is a whole lot easier/cheaper to fix than a teardown, even though the odds are against it. Weirder things have happened!

theFBthatcould

i read this wrong the first time after i start it it will do it for like 15 20 mins and then stop and then rarely it will do it while driving hot start -cold start doesnt matter

OneRotor

iTrader: (3)

If it doesn't crop back up after the motor is started and warmed up, it's that you're using too thin of an oil. Go to 20w50 with Lucas oil stabilizer, and it should quell all but the typical initial startup and warmup oil haze.

FWIW My FB has just under 102k on it's original 12a, and it smokes ~60% of the time on startup. I am currently using Valvoline VR1 20w50 with a GSL-SE oil cooler setup (Short radiator with FMOC) and a remote mount oil filter (you can see pictures of my setup in the link to my photobucket in my sig). It is only light smoke during warmup, and it goes away after the motor has come to operating temperature. This is typical for rotaries because of the design of the motor.

Heavy smoking (where you diminish visibility behind you to zero or close to it) is not good, but since you said that it's only during cold startup and (because you said 15-20 minutes) during warmup, it's more than likely an oil viscosity issue.

theFBthatcould

ok so what about disableing the omp and pre mixing? would i still need oil in the sump? cause isnt the oil just pumped into the carb thats how i understood it

OneRotor

iTrader: (3)

Yes you would need oil in the sump. You need oil for your bearings and rotors, whereas the oil being pumped by the OMP is used for lubricating the apex seals. All you're doing by premixing is putting oil in to lubricate the apex seals that burns more cleanly than the oil that your OMP pumps into the carb (2 stroke oil is formulated to burn cleanly (the ashless stuff anyway), whereas motor oil will leave some deposits).