Bleeblobz

iTrader: (1)

I've built a few 12a motors and am 3/4 my way through another one. I assembled the motor upside down, I know it was a stupid mistake but other than the apex seals being upside down, there really isn't any difference, right? I don't need to tear it back down, do I?

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

upside down meaning where you put the corner pieces?

Bleeblobz

iTrader: (1)

Right. The apex seals are upside down. I started on the rear face and ended on the front.

NCross

iTrader: (18)

Upside down like the pulley is on the rear and flwheel is on the front? If so, hillarious lol.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

no issue as long as there wasn't any crazy porting done.

Bleeblobz

iTrader: (1)

A large Street port but all of the ports are the same size. All of the ports are in the same position aren't they?

peejay

I think it's actually easier to assemble with the corner pieces pointing down. Then the seal spring won't take the corner piece and flick it halfway across the room Even worse is when it lands in a water jacket. Apex seal material is not magnetic.

All of my half bridge engines had the rear apex seals "backwards", even though they were all built with used seals. World failed to end. Actually my full bridge engine also has the rear apex seals backwards (it got new ones) because I don't trust the Atkins corner piece to not fall into my secondary ports' rotor housing reliefs. Other people have no problems but I am **** retentive so I specifically left the primary bridge ports unrelieved.

I just realized, it's been two years since I built an engine.

Bleeblobz

iTrader: (1)

I picked this motor up a few weeks ago off craigslist. I have another running motor I just want the practice and a extra motor. Anyway I have had corner seals shoot across the room and hide when I didn't have any extra. This motor was different, the corner seals didn't spring like that. The apex seals were ok but not new. The do spring up but not enough pressure to fly out. Why would that be?

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

yes. they are in the same positions, but Peejay illustrated the point i was getting at when i mentioned porting in my earlier response. in some situations, you may or may not have to (or be advised to) orient them differently for peace of mind if one-piece seals are not used.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

the night/morning i built my first engine, i remember wondering if i had the corner piece "settled" right and for everyday that passed between assembly and the first fire, i worried about it. for that reason, before i learned to glue the seals into one piece, i eventually started to assemble the engines with them pointed down simply because it soothed my neurotic tendencies.

i've never had one shoot out of an engine (probably because of the amount of petroleum jelly i use), but i remember with that first engine, the spring would make it pop out of place as i tried to position the rear housing on the dowels. i must have made maybe a half dozen tries at putting the rear housing on.

Bleeblobz

iTrader: (1)

I am a little better now than I was before but I still think I removed one plate 3 times to make sure the corners didn't unseat. Like I stated before, they didn't have the force I've witnessed in the past.

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

Ever since I learned of the crazy-glue trick, side pieces and springs have been no issue. Six little "pings" while torqueing & you're golden!

Bleeblobz

iTrader: (1)

I think I'm going home tonight and tearing it back down. The way those corners were seating just doesn't sit right with me, they really should have more tension on them, shouldn't they? Once everything was torqued down and smashed together wouldnt they seat properly. I keep going over this in my head and as long as the spring is behind the seal, it really can only go one way but I would rather do it now than later when I really have to pull everything apart. Next time i do know i will be using glue.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

What if you don't get all 6 pings? What if the glued apex seal is just too short to ping, but still longer than the rotor housing? It will put pressure on the irons and drag causing hard spots while hand cranking. Not good. So I glue them slightly shorter than the rotor housing. That's 69.94mm or similar.

After my first glued build that had hard spots and only a couple of pings, I started gluing them shorter and it works great with no worry of damage to apex seals or irons.

The glue breaks the first time it starts.

peejay

The glue usually breaks for me when I am trying to assemble

I usually glue very overlong to make sure the springs aren't overtensioned, if I bother to glue at all. When I assemble a stock Mazda seal engine "correctly" then I don't even stick the corner piece inside the rotor housing, I let it sit "rocked up" and tightening the stack down pushes the piece down into place.

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

No idea - never happened to me yet. I'd probably just yell at it til they popped.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Yeah, you'd think it would, but that's about the stupidest way to assemble. I've sheared off the tops of the end pieces doing that. So has Karack, along with a local guy who used to run Rapid Rotary, and a guy named Tom.

The one and only engine I ever tried that on wouldn't idle smooth. I tore it down for another reason and discovered the sheared off tops and a corresponding chunk of apex seal smashed between the iron and housing.

peejay

I'm not sure how that can happen, but if you had it happen, then huh. Doesn't much affect me anymore since I won't be using Mazda seals for the foreseeable future.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

I recently assembled an engine that had that happen years ago (originally built by the Rapid Rotary guy), otherwise I'd take a picture of the small dent in the end of the rotor housing and the weird wear mark it causes on the chrome. This engine ran long enough to wear the apex seals down past the shared off section. I ground the dent down with a dremel and this engine fired up quick and easily first try. OEM 2 piece 2mm, good used, about 7.9mm tall. I did scuff the surface with a little sand paper which seems to help on used seals.

This sheared off problem doesn't happen with long end piece seals like Atkins and other aftermarket seals. Only short OEMs and the like. You know this, but others might not.

Doesn't matter to me anymore as I glue them every time, whether Atkins or OEM. Assembly goes so much smoother.

peejay

Gluing makes it a PITA because it seems like they never glue flat so it won't go into the slot and I end up havign to break it free anyway.

Or it does go in but spring tension pops the corner piece off right before you drop the side housing down.

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

To glue them flat, glue them while they lay sideways on a very flat surface, like a piece of plate glass. I use the flat area of an old side housing; used to use the milled stage of my drill press.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

A mirror is what I use.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

^ same here.

Bleeblobz

iTrader: (1)

I know this is a old thread but I just tore a motor down and I know it was put together with the "rocked up" method. Long story short, I need new apex seal tips, all. All of them are sheared off, all.