Redlance

well, I got the fuel and oil drained and put in a new fuel and oil filter did the mmo in spark plug holes thing and changed the spark plugs. I hit the key and the engine spun but wouldn't start, I tried it a few more times and then I hit the key and... nothing no click just nothing. I have dash lights and checked the links in the engine compartment and the fuses under the dash all seem fine. the only other weird thing is my window wipers don't work either so am I corect in thinking that my starter (solonoid)sp is likely shot?
or has any one else found a strange reason a first gen wont turn over when it has power to the car. i.e. new battery I will be pulling the starter to be tested any way but thought I would post to get other ideas in case this isn't the problem.

Thanks!

P.O.S. Racing

Are you getting power to the starter?

SilverRocket

First things to do:

1) Charge your battery; get a jump if you can or go buy a charger with a high amp car-starting feature.

I know you have headlights, etc.... it doesn't matter, you still probably don't have enough juice to turn it over.

I went through this same thing (thought I had power) and replaced my starter, eventually finding out my battery was shot.

2) Make sure all the connections to the battery are clean. Especially the small slide-on connector to the solenoid (the one on the top), it tends to get dirty. A few years ago I had this problem intermittently and all that was required was cleaning the connector.

If these don't work, the Haynes manual has the procedure for testing the ignition switch, etc. And then you can pull the starter and get it tested.

But seriously, before you do anything else try my first 2 suggestions. These 2 simple things have fixed every so called 'starter' problem my 7 as ever had.

clean

hey red,
I had a similar problem a little while ago, it was my starter, I eventually had to replace it, (It was a lot cheaper than I thought it would be). Reach under your car and whack the starter with a hammer a couple of times while someone's turning the key. Your starter might be on it's last legs, and if it starts while you're tapping it, it's just about gone, and you need a new one.
When mine went it just all of a sudden stopped working, then started again, and then stopped, until finally it just wouldn't work. If it turns out to be the starter, I bought mine from Canadian Tire (Canada.. obviously) and it cost me $113, with a five year warranty. I didn't think that was so bad, since the wreckers wanted $80 for a used one.

Clean

Oh, while you're under the car, tapping the starter, make sure the car's out of gear.. it's a bit of a shock when you almost get run over.. :p

Audio Science

this same thing happened to me as well. However my windshield wipers still worked. That might just be a coinsidence. Anyhow what happened was that there is a braided wire that runs from the terminal on the starter to brushes inside the starter. The wire just burnt through. Just get a new starter or pick one up at a junkyard.

Redlance

well I took out the starter and had it tested, and it works like a charm. so now, how do I check my starter switch? also I can't push the car yet because my tie rod end still hasn't come in so how do I make sure that the engine isn't stuck? i.e. is there a way to spin the engine by hand to make sure every thing is still moving?. and one last thing there is a braided wire under the car behind the drivers seat that looks like it would run next to the fule lines but it has been cut and I can't find the other end what is this wire and where should it go? it didn't prevent the car's engine from turning before so I don't belive it is related I am just wondering wtf it is.
thanks again you all have been very helpfull and I am really looking forward to geting my car back on the road and back in good shape.

SilverRocket

You can turn the engine over by turning the drive pulley; it shouldn't be too hard to turn.

I don't remember off-hand how to test the ignition switch, but get yourself a Haynes manual (you should have one anyways) and the procedure is described in detail. From here it's just a process of elimination, since you know your starter works. I would carefully doublecheck and clean all the connections, if you haven't already.

Do you have more details about the wire that's cut? Can you trace it to see where it goes?

Good luck!

Suparslinc

I think that braded wire goes to into the exhaust pipe; check and see if theres a small plug sticking out behind the cats with a broken wire. I think it measures exhaust temperature or something like that.
To see if the engine will turn over; pull all the spark plugs out, put it in nuetral obviously, and grab ahold of one of the belts. Pull on it with both hands, pulling towards you from the drivers side however it really doesn't matter which direction you pull. You should be able to turn it fairly easily.

Suparslinc

I think that braded wire goes to into the exhaust pipe; check and see if theres a small plug sticking out behind the cats with a broken wire. I think it measures exhaust temperature or something like that.
To see if the engine will turn over; pull all the spark plugs out, put it in nuetral obviously, and grab ahold of one of the belts. Pull on it with both hands, pulling towards you from the drivers side however it really doesn't matter which direction you pull. You should be able to turn it fairly easily.
Another thing to do, jack the drivers side up, put some jackstands down for safety, pull the starter, and using a prybar against the tranny housing, pry on the exposed ring gear on the flywheel. It should definately move with a prybar. Again make sure the car is in nuetral and ebrake is on.

Redlance

Still looking for a hanes manual all I can find so far is the mazda all modles books and I don't want one of them. Fargo is a pain for finding import books or parts. it's all trucks and detroit iorn around here ... not that's a bad thing just a pain for a person like me who wants to get my import car working. it also dosn't help that it is an old car.

SilverRocket

Redlance,

If you want I'll check the Haynes manual tonight and post up the procedure for you. Probably could have it up by around 7 or 8.

Redlance

Silver,
That would be wonderfull. I left the starter in my wife's car so I can't re-install it just yet but I did barrow a meter and I get good conductivity through the wires so they should be ok. the motor turns freely so that is also no issue (thank goodness) does that leave me with the switch or can any one else think of any thing else that could be wrong. Now that I have a cheap meter I can do some more testing for power ect if any one can post some instructions. If you can't tell I am really in the market for a repair manual what National chains cary them? I have looked at Checker auto parts, Wall-Mart, and will check with NAPA auto parts tomarow. ...

as to that strange wire I can't find any port on the exhaust that could be a port for any sensor or any thing. not that I doubt the exhaust hasn't been changed but did the 84 GS come with a Exhaust temp sensor? I didn't think they even had a computer and there isn't a egt display in the dash. Does the 84 GS have a computer onboard?

SilverRocket

Cool Redlance, I just gotta take care of a thing or too and then I'll have it up in a jiffy!!

I guess you don't have any Canadian Tire's around do ya?? Maybe someone in the states can let you in on the secret stash for haynes manuals...:p

Oh yeah, my 82 GS *had* an exhaust temp sensor. It's pretty useless when you don't have cats though...

Redlance

So if it is an aftermarket exhaust would the people who installed it just cut the wire if the one they replaced it with didn't have a sensor location? that seems strange but could be the truth. the wire was definately cut for a reason it is a clean cut at a 45 degree angle not worn or scraped off. The car is all stock other than the exhaust and it has more holes than swiss cheese so I suspect it was a cheap one that lasted a day or two.

SilverRocket

Ok here ya go, from the Haynes manual.....
--------------------------
Problem: Engine will not crank or cranks sluggishly

1) Turn the ignition key to the "ON" position and switch on some of the electrical systems such as windshield wipers, headlights, etc. If these fail to function, battery failure is indicated. Check the battery itself and the main connections to the battery.

2) If the headlights work normally, turn the ignition key to the 'START' position with the headlights switched on. If the lights and the ignition warning lights dim, this again indicates that the battery is discharged or the connections are poor.

3) If the headlights stay bright and the warning light doesn't dim when the ignition key is turned, this suggests a fault in the wiring between the ignition switch and the starter motor. First, check all electrical connections in this system, then check the ignition switch by using a short length of wire to short out between the white/red and black/yellow wires at the back of the switch. If this causes the starter to crank the engine, then the ignition switch is at fault and must be replaced.

4) If the switch works correctly, check the solenoid then the started motor itself. (but you already know these work)
---------------------------------------

I don't know how much this helps you, it's not as detailed as I remembered. But then again it's not really a complicated problem, it's either the wiring or the switch.

BTW, please tell me you have completely charged your battery or tried getting a jump!! It really is the first thing to do, it is always the problem in my case, and I always think it's something else.

Good luck!

SilverRocket

I would think if you just cut the wire, the light would be on all the time...but maybe the other way around.

I'm not exactly sure how mine is since it was few years ago (before I was as gung-ho about working on my 7) and the shop did the removal of the air pump and all that, does someone in the know want to help out here?

Denny

All right, Buckaroo,

That braided wire used to be a part of your exhaust high-temp warning system. When your turn your key to "on", but not start, there should be a red light lit up to the far right on the "idiot light-bar." Once you get away from "Mazda Dealership exhaust" the system is no more. Don't worry about it, and move on. Cut it all off if it bothers you.
You can order a Haynes 79-85 Mazda RX-7 manual from the net...carparts.com, nobleandbarnes.com, etc. Shucks, Son...If worse comes to worse I'll get yuh one and mail it to yuh...Believe me, it's a mighty handy thing to have around. I've got two, a dirty one in the Garage, and a clean one inside my crib.

Now you're gonna get some "old-timer" advice. I'd say that just about 85% of electrical problems I've tackled have been due to bad grounds, and poor or dirty connections. Old Volvo's were infamous for not starting after doing so faithfully for several years. Folks would have it towed to "Friendly's Foreign Fix-ups Garage," Some fella with an accent would mumble about bearings, flywheels, cold cranking power, brake shoes and socks, and shake his head sadly...."You haffa leaf-ah de kar...I'm no-gotta time...Up to here witha work...Maybe inna two weeks...You mussa be craze, we gotta no loaner...."
If he's just this side of honest he'll put in a new starter, and while he's at it, cleans off the corrosion on the starter cable and on the car's ground cable....If he's not, he cleans the cables and lies about the new starter....All cost the same, Lottsa...After all, it's a Volvo, right?
The tip of the tale is to "Clean All Connections," especially since the engine spun fine before you "started messin' with it," so your Father would exclaim. Your bendix gear may not be popping out properly, your battery could be in the Happy Crappy Land, or in all your "messin' around" you may have knocked loose a wire, or accidently broke a connection. Use some degreaser, or brake/parts cleaner to throughly wash away all oil and grime. Lay down some newspaper, and get some of those blue heavy-duty garage paper towels, you'll need 'em. Got your tools in order? An old toothbrush, and some larger sized brushs, needle-nosed pliers, 10mm, 12mm, 14mm, and 17mm wrenches, test-light, screwdrivers....Get your grubbies on, turn on your music, pop a can of soda, roll out the creeper, and the portable light....Now you're a mechanic...Go get 'em, young man!

A tip of the Stetson,
Denny, from the 'ol corncrib....

Redlance

yes!!!! got the darnd thing to turn over ..... and even start !!!! this is so cool ! I rember that sound and boy did I miss it! I really went to town cleaning all the conections to the starter and she turned strong and then started with a Vroom! I pushed in the choke a little to get the revs down. and she stayed running just a bit slower. but boy does that MMO stink as it burns off. I had to shut it down due to the white cloud that it was creating and the car being so close to the apartment I am in. I can't wait untill I get my tie rod parts so I can push her across the street and let it run for a bit to burn off some of oil. thanks guys for all of your help so far!. I hope I can get some driveing in before the snow starts to fly. and Thanks for the info about the wire it was bothering me a lot having somthing just hanging there that I had no idea what it was. now I could care less.