2 MSD boxs Vs. DLIDFIS - the end all
03-25-08, 09:57 PM
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2 MSD boxs Vs. DLIDFIS - the end all
Ok, i've searched and searched for days now and can't seem to get a completely straight answer. Which is a better setup (price aside) running 2 MSD boxes with the original 2 coil setup, or DLIDFIS with 3 coils an one box? Hopefully this thread finally clears up the controversy between which is the better setup. Let the games begin.
03-25-08, 11:37 PM
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I can't say whats better but I have just recently finished a 2 MSD setup with three blaster coils using just stock trailing and it made cold start up way easier... in -17C I only have to feather the throttle for 30 sec or so and it'll start idling on its own, where as with stock I had to wait until the car was almost completly warm.
Throttle response is awsome and now it doesnt have any sort of a backfire or hesitation.
I havent got to run it on the road as I recently took apart the motor for cleaning and a supercharger rebuild. But before I took it apart I was doing doughnuts in my front yard in the snow and the throttle response was crisp right through to 7500rpm.
Throttle response is awsome and now it doesnt have any sort of a backfire or hesitation.
I havent got to run it on the road as I recently took apart the motor for cleaning and a supercharger rebuild. But before I took it apart I was doing doughnuts in my front yard in the snow and the throttle response was crisp right through to 7500rpm.
03-26-08, 12:31 PM
#9
Well you can't run two MSD boxes.
It's either one or three. Leading can be fired at the same time in a "wasted spark" config, so you can use one box for both rotors. Trailing, however, can't be fired at the same time because unlike the Leading (where one fires at the proper time and the other in the "exhaust" phase) the Trailing have one that would fire at the proper time and the other firing way too early in the "compression" phase. If it ignited the mixture it would make that rotor want to spin backwards which wouldn't be good.
At one point someone showed a pair of dyno graphs, where the only difference between the two runs was disconnecting the trailing ignition completely. The result was a loss of 1-2hp, a number easily within the margin for error for the dyno and a number not nearly big enough to warrant the investment of buying two more MSD boxes.
The trailing ignition is pretty much only for emissions control purposes, it contributes little if anything to the engine's power. That's why DLIDFIS is done with direct fire on the Leading, but the trailing still going through the distributor cap.
So either go one MSD box or DLIDFIS. The decision between the two at that point should be made more by budget and preference rather than anything else. Any direct fire system will be better than stock and the difference between MSD and DLIDFIS, I would guess, would be negligible.
Jon
It's either one or three. Leading can be fired at the same time in a "wasted spark" config, so you can use one box for both rotors. Trailing, however, can't be fired at the same time because unlike the Leading (where one fires at the proper time and the other in the "exhaust" phase) the Trailing have one that would fire at the proper time and the other firing way too early in the "compression" phase. If it ignited the mixture it would make that rotor want to spin backwards which wouldn't be good.
At one point someone showed a pair of dyno graphs, where the only difference between the two runs was disconnecting the trailing ignition completely. The result was a loss of 1-2hp, a number easily within the margin for error for the dyno and a number not nearly big enough to warrant the investment of buying two more MSD boxes.
The trailing ignition is pretty much only for emissions control purposes, it contributes little if anything to the engine's power. That's why DLIDFIS is done with direct fire on the Leading, but the trailing still going through the distributor cap.
So either go one MSD box or DLIDFIS. The decision between the two at that point should be made more by budget and preference rather than anything else. Any direct fire system will be better than stock and the difference between MSD and DLIDFIS, I would guess, would be negligible.
Jon
03-26-08, 12:34 PM
#10
Well iI want to know how you get 4 coils or even 3 coils in ,. I got 2 different
engines and adding 2 msd 6al boxes when complete and 2 msd blaster but now i
hear 3 or 4 coils wow amazing. im glad i join this forum, please assist in thi so
when im done with rx3 i have all this little toys in time for the finall tunning.
engines and adding 2 msd 6al boxes when complete and 2 msd blaster but now i
hear 3 or 4 coils wow amazing. im glad i join this forum, please assist in thi so
when im done with rx3 i have all this little toys in time for the finall tunning.
03-26-08, 12:49 PM
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msd+ the dual leading coil is prolly really good (we dont have numbers for the stock setup to compare)
you can actually run 2 msd boxes, but the trailing still goes thru the distributor cap.
or you can run 1 msd, and hook the leading and trailings all up to the one box and fire everything thru the cap together
you can actually run 2 msd boxes, but the trailing still goes thru the distributor cap.
or you can run 1 msd, and hook the leading and trailings all up to the one box and fire everything thru the cap together
03-26-08, 01:48 PM
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I have 2 MSD 6al boxes wired together and then connected to the mag pickup (filed male connectors). Each Msd box has its own blaster coil which is direct to the spark plug. trailing is just run stock but with a blaster coil.
03-26-08, 05:53 PM
#15
Dual Leading Ignitor Direct Fire Ignition System
It's a term coined here on the forum I believe.
The idea is instead of having one coil for the leading which is hooked to the distributor and has to "jump" the spark across the gaps in the distributor cap/rotor as it turns, you take two coils and set them up so that they fire directly to the leading spark plugs. You use an ignitor for each of them and trigger them from the pickups in the distributor. The coils fire their spark straight down the wire to the spark plug, eliminating the loss of power that comes from having to jump the spark across the gaps in the distributor cap.
It's an interesting way to achieve direct fire. Do a search for DLIDFIS in the first gen section and you're bound to come up with a ton of threads on the subject.
Jon
It's a term coined here on the forum I believe.
The idea is instead of having one coil for the leading which is hooked to the distributor and has to "jump" the spark across the gaps in the distributor cap/rotor as it turns, you take two coils and set them up so that they fire directly to the leading spark plugs. You use an ignitor for each of them and trigger them from the pickups in the distributor. The coils fire their spark straight down the wire to the spark plug, eliminating the loss of power that comes from having to jump the spark across the gaps in the distributor cap.
It's an interesting way to achieve direct fire. Do a search for DLIDFIS in the first gen section and you're bound to come up with a ton of threads on the subject.
Jon
03-27-08, 08:20 AM
#16
Well you can't run two MSD boxes.
It's either one or three. Leading can be fired at the same time in a "wasted spark" config, so you can use one box for both rotors. Trailing, however, can't be fired at the same time because unlike the Leading (where one fires at the proper time and the other in the "exhaust" phase) the Trailing have one that would fire at the proper time and the other firing way too early in the "compression" phase. If it ignited the mixture it would make that rotor want to spin backwards which wouldn't be good.
At one point someone showed a pair of dyno graphs, where the only difference between the two runs was disconnecting the trailing ignition completely. The result was a loss of 1-2hp, a number easily within the margin for error for the dyno and a number not nearly big enough to warrant the investment of buying two more MSD boxes.
The trailing ignition is pretty much only for emissions control purposes, it contributes little if anything to the engine's power. That's why DLIDFIS is done with direct fire on the Leading, but the trailing still going through the distributor cap.
So either go one MSD box or DLIDFIS. The decision between the two at that point should be made more by budget and preference rather than anything else. Any direct fire system will be better than stock and the difference between MSD and DLIDFIS, I would guess, would be negligible.
Jon
It's either one or three. Leading can be fired at the same time in a "wasted spark" config, so you can use one box for both rotors. Trailing, however, can't be fired at the same time because unlike the Leading (where one fires at the proper time and the other in the "exhaust" phase) the Trailing have one that would fire at the proper time and the other firing way too early in the "compression" phase. If it ignited the mixture it would make that rotor want to spin backwards which wouldn't be good.
At one point someone showed a pair of dyno graphs, where the only difference between the two runs was disconnecting the trailing ignition completely. The result was a loss of 1-2hp, a number easily within the margin for error for the dyno and a number not nearly big enough to warrant the investment of buying two more MSD boxes.
The trailing ignition is pretty much only for emissions control purposes, it contributes little if anything to the engine's power. That's why DLIDFIS is done with direct fire on the Leading, but the trailing still going through the distributor cap.
So either go one MSD box or DLIDFIS. The decision between the two at that point should be made more by budget and preference rather than anything else. Any direct fire system will be better than stock and the difference between MSD and DLIDFIS, I would guess, would be negligible.
Jon
im running 2 MSD boxes. teh leading is a MSD box into a 2nd gen coil and the trailing is a MSD box into a MSD coil and then into the dizzy.
03-27-08, 12:48 PM
#17
In that scenario I would just skip the msd and run stock trailing through the dizzy as-is. Keep the blaster coil though, I've heard good things about those, but I don't think that the cost of the MSD box is worth the minimal gains (if any) that it would yield on trailing.
I never thought of triggering a 2nd gen coil with it though... that's a damn good idea...
Jon
03-27-08, 07:29 PM
#18
vipernicus42
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so you saying that having and MSD 6AL is not that much gain.
Why is it that i see everyone in track with some. It has to do something big.
I been thinking of getting some but now im confuse if to get one or 2 or none, I
got 2 blasters and I think is worth it but the boxes im confuse now,
Rotoholic Moderookie
so you saying that having and MSD 6AL is not that much gain.
Why is it that i see everyone in track with some. It has to do something big.
I been thinking of getting some but now im confuse if to get one or 2 or none, I
got 2 blasters and I think is worth it but the boxes im confuse now,
03-27-08, 10:30 PM
#23
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well since we only modify the leading side of the system;
the tach still runs off the trailing coil ( Y/G wire ) which is untouched. The only thing we do for the trailing side is change the 3 sparkplug wires from T, T1, T2
to (L, L1 , L2 ) around to the leading side of the distributor cap which goes to the trailing spark plugs.
the tach still runs off the trailing coil ( Y/G wire ) which is untouched. The only thing we do for the trailing side is change the 3 sparkplug wires from T, T1, T2
to (L, L1 , L2 ) around to the leading side of the distributor cap which goes to the trailing spark plugs.
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