13B swap
03-22-06, 09:28 PM
#1
13B swap
does anyone actually make a 13b "swap kit" or is it just a do it yourself thing? sorry for the stupid newb question, i dont own a 1st gen but maybe soon, found a nice one i might pick up within the next week or 2. thanks guys
ps. if not, what all is needed? and howm uch of a hassle is it
ps. if not, what all is needed? and howm uch of a hassle is it
03-22-06, 09:35 PM
#2
mazdatrix sells a motor mount for the 13b in SA/FB chassis. You can bolt the 13b up to your stock tranny if you use the 12a flywheel and clutch. Carbureted is the easiest way to go as you don't have to worry about the wiring as much...may be a tit bit more spendy depending on which carb kit you go with or else you can buy used and it will save you a few hundred.
03-22-06, 09:42 PM
#3
if you don't plan on going turbo, 2.5" all they way back is your best bet. I think you can buy a 13b RB header for the 2nd gen and that should work fine. You will need to get an aftermarket fuel pump also, depending on if your going FI or carbureted, Holley should have you covered and I think Summit or racingbeat has both pumps.
Thats all the info I can supply for now.
Thats all the info I can supply for now.
03-22-06, 10:27 PM
#4
Originally Posted by Roundabout
mazdatrix sells a motor mount for the 13b in SA/FB chassis. You can bolt the 13b up to your stock tranny if you use the 12a flywheel and clutch. Carbureted is the easiest way to go as you don't have to worry about the wiring as much...may be a tit bit more spendy depending on which carb kit you go with or else you can buy used and it will save you a few hundred.
03-22-06, 10:58 PM
#7
FB+FC=F-ME
A 13B engine as a whole, is not hard to mount in a 1st gen.The GSL-SE 1st gen came factory with a 13B.
If you are reffering to a TII 13BT,then no, there is no "kit" to do it.The mounting up is no more difficult than any other 13B,you use all factory parts just like a GSL-SE.But the wiring and fuel system must be made from scratch or adapted from FC components.
Our cars are too old to get much attention from the modern aftermarket like Hondas and the like, from the mid/late 90's.
If you are reffering to a TII 13BT,then no, there is no "kit" to do it.The mounting up is no more difficult than any other 13B,you use all factory parts just like a GSL-SE.But the wiring and fuel system must be made from scratch or adapted from FC components.
Our cars are too old to get much attention from the modern aftermarket like Hondas and the like, from the mid/late 90's.
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03-23-06, 06:00 PM
#10
Lots of custom mounting work. The 13B-REW has rear mounts on the engine. The 1st gens mount with the front cover, the 2nd gens mount at the center iron, S4's can be front mounted with little work other than changing the front cover, the S5's need more mods due to it's electric mop, which the S6 has also. No, it is not an easy swap and a 13B-T is a better choice.
While the REW engine puts out more hp stock, it is a pita to work with and trouble shoot and they usually have a shorter life due to the twin turbos and extra under hood temps they put out. An S4/5 can be easily modded to put out equal or greater hp for less money, ease of installation and greater longevity.
While the REW engine puts out more hp stock, it is a pita to work with and trouble shoot and they usually have a shorter life due to the twin turbos and extra under hood temps they put out. An S4/5 can be easily modded to put out equal or greater hp for less money, ease of installation and greater longevity.
03-23-06, 06:09 PM
#11
well ****, let me restate again... it doesnt have the be a 3rd gen engine, all i want is a 13b block to drop in it and throw my own turbo on it, so i guess a 2nd gen tII engine will do just as well, what ever is easiest to do. so long as i cant throw a turbo on it and its 13b fuel injected
03-23-06, 06:46 PM
#13
Originally Posted by trochoid
Depending on budget, an S4 is the easiest option. Depending on turbo, you may need to go standalone.
We get these queries all the time, the more info you can provide on components and purpose, the more detailed answer you will recieve.
We get these queries all the time, the more info you can provide on components and purpose, the more detailed answer you will recieve.
03-23-06, 07:01 PM
#14
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Originally Posted by trochoid
While the REW engine puts out more hp stock, it is a pita to work with and trouble shoot and they usually have a shorter life due to the twin turbos and extra under hood temps they put out. An S4/5 can be easily modded to put out equal or greater hp for less money, ease of installation and greater longevity.
With equal modifications, and comparable Turbos/Boost levels, the S6 will have greater longevity.
03-23-06, 10:33 PM
#16
IBTL!!
j/k
microtech makes the whole engine management system but they are a little spendy. you can go with something like this for cheaper though... http://www.pocketlogger.com/ I don't know anything about it, but I hear that it works
j/k
microtech makes the whole engine management system but they are a little spendy. you can go with something like this for cheaper though... http://www.pocketlogger.com/ I don't know anything about it, but I hear that it works
03-26-06, 10:12 AM
#17
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Though its a 4 hour drive 
but thats not a big deal to me
06-25-06, 12:28 PM
#20
Im using this old thread to avoid making another new 13b swap thread. im still looking into the difficulty of the install, and was wondering is a 13B from a GSL-SE would be any easier or any less work since its already meant for a 1st gen chassis? Planning on just buying a rebuilt, paying the core charge and then starting the turbo build, buying parts as i need them.
06-25-06, 07:57 PM
#21
FB+FC=F-ME
A non turbo 13B isnt the same as a turbo 13B.
The turbo has 4 intake ports and an intake manifold thats more conducive to turbocharging.Its made to be turbo from the factory and theres little screwing around involved to make it work right.Plus the block is stronger and the compression ratio is lower.
The 84-85 and 86-92 non turbo 13B engines are 6 port and have a complicated intake system that's designed and tuned, to make maximum power with natural aspiration.Slapping a turbo onto them is possible and people have done it,but it upsets the balance of the engine's design,as a whole.You can mix and match some of the intake systems,but none are a simple bolt on,so theres more screwing around that you have to do.
For a simple,no nonsense turbo 13B setup than wont drive you crazy and require a bunch of comprimises or alterations......you cant beat a S4 TII engine.The 87-88 TII is easy to find,factory turbo ready,and the simplest to bolt into an FB chassis.The factory ECU can be made to work and will make about 250HP with bolt-ons.A standalone will make as much power as you can afford,but its pricey and cannot be smog legal.
Any 13B can physically be bolted into an FB,but the variations between the 4 types of EFI 13B...... S3-S4-S5-S6...... makes each one more difficult than the next...in that order,I might add.Adding a standalone ECU makes the whole thing simpler,but its also more $$$ and will require tuning.
The turbo has 4 intake ports and an intake manifold thats more conducive to turbocharging.Its made to be turbo from the factory and theres little screwing around involved to make it work right.Plus the block is stronger and the compression ratio is lower.
The 84-85 and 86-92 non turbo 13B engines are 6 port and have a complicated intake system that's designed and tuned, to make maximum power with natural aspiration.Slapping a turbo onto them is possible and people have done it,but it upsets the balance of the engine's design,as a whole.You can mix and match some of the intake systems,but none are a simple bolt on,so theres more screwing around that you have to do.
For a simple,no nonsense turbo 13B setup than wont drive you crazy and require a bunch of comprimises or alterations......you cant beat a S4 TII engine.The 87-88 TII is easy to find,factory turbo ready,and the simplest to bolt into an FB chassis.The factory ECU can be made to work and will make about 250HP with bolt-ons.A standalone will make as much power as you can afford,but its pricey and cannot be smog legal.
Any 13B can physically be bolted into an FB,but the variations between the 4 types of EFI 13B...... S3-S4-S5-S6...... makes each one more difficult than the next...in that order,I might add.Adding a standalone ECU makes the whole thing simpler,but its also more $$$ and will require tuning.
Last edited by steve84GS TII; 06-25-06 at 08:01 PM.
06-25-06, 08:47 PM
#22
Originally Posted by steve84GS TII
A non turbo 13B isnt the same as a turbo 13B.
The turbo has 4 intake ports and an intake manifold thats more conducive to turbocharging.Its made to be turbo from the factory and theres little screwing around involved to make it work right.Plus the block is stronger and the compression ratio is lower.
The 84-85 and 86-92 non turbo 13B engines are 6 port and have a complicated intake system that's designed and tuned, to make maximum power with natural aspiration.Slapping a turbo onto them is possible and people have done it,but it upsets the balance of the engine's design,as a whole.You can mix and match some of the intake systems,but none are a simple bolt on,so theres more screwing around that you have to do.
For a simple,no nonsense turbo 13B setup than wont drive you crazy and require a bunch of comprimises or alterations......you cant beat a S4 TII engine.The 87-88 TII is easy to find,factory turbo ready,and the simplest to bolt into an FB chassis.The factory ECU can be made to work and will make about 250HP with bolt-ons.A standalone will make as much power as you can afford,but its pricey and cannot be smog legal.
Any 13B can physically be bolted into an FB,but the variations between the 4 types of EFI 13B...... S3-S4-S5-S6...... makes each one more difficult than the next...in that order,I might add.Adding a standalone ECU makes the whole thing simpler,but its also more $$$ and will require tuning.
The turbo has 4 intake ports and an intake manifold thats more conducive to turbocharging.Its made to be turbo from the factory and theres little screwing around involved to make it work right.Plus the block is stronger and the compression ratio is lower.
The 84-85 and 86-92 non turbo 13B engines are 6 port and have a complicated intake system that's designed and tuned, to make maximum power with natural aspiration.Slapping a turbo onto them is possible and people have done it,but it upsets the balance of the engine's design,as a whole.You can mix and match some of the intake systems,but none are a simple bolt on,so theres more screwing around that you have to do.
For a simple,no nonsense turbo 13B setup than wont drive you crazy and require a bunch of comprimises or alterations......you cant beat a S4 TII engine.The 87-88 TII is easy to find,factory turbo ready,and the simplest to bolt into an FB chassis.The factory ECU can be made to work and will make about 250HP with bolt-ons.A standalone will make as much power as you can afford,but its pricey and cannot be smog legal.
Any 13B can physically be bolted into an FB,but the variations between the 4 types of EFI 13B...... S3-S4-S5-S6...... makes each one more difficult than the next...in that order,I might add.Adding a standalone ECU makes the whole thing simpler,but its also more $$$ and will require tuning.
4port vs 6port, already turbo vs not turbo... sorry i wasted your post time 
06-25-06, 08:58 PM
#23
FB+FC=F-ME
No problem.
Even if you didnt need the info,someone else might have,and thats why were all here right?
:sigh: ............its just too bad this will all be buried in a day or two and the same question will be asked again!!....heh,heh....
Even if you didnt need the info,someone else might have,and thats why were all here right?
:sigh: ............its just too bad this will all be buried in a day or two and the same question will be asked again!!....heh,heh....
06-25-06, 09:21 PM
#24
Originally Posted by steve84GS TII
No problem.
Even if you didnt need the info,someone else might have,and thats why were all here right?
:sigh: ............its just too bad this will all be buried in a day or two and the same question will be asked again!!....heh,heh....
Even if you didnt need the info,someone else might have,and thats why were all here right?
:sigh: ............its just too bad this will all be buried in a day or two and the same question will be asked again!!....heh,heh....
07-24-06, 04:41 PM
#25
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I think I have a question that hasn't been covered specifically yet.
What do i need to do to put a '91 13B into my '80 12A SA?
So far all I have heard is that I need to change to front cover to a 12A or 13B from a '84 or '85 GSL-SE. But then I have also heard that I need an Oil Pan from a '84 or '85 GSL-SE? I dont know why for sure, can someone explain. And then I think there is something about the Oil Injection pump or watever its called haveing to be changed or something? CAn someone help me understand this and is there anything else I need to know?
P.S. I have the engine, transmission, alternater, Coils, ECU, and wire harness from the '91, and i want to put it into my '80 SA, except I will probably run it with a MegaSquirt EFI
What do i need to do to put a '91 13B into my '80 12A SA?
So far all I have heard is that I need to change to front cover to a 12A or 13B from a '84 or '85 GSL-SE. But then I have also heard that I need an Oil Pan from a '84 or '85 GSL-SE? I dont know why for sure, can someone explain. And then I think there is something about the Oil Injection pump or watever its called haveing to be changed or something? CAn someone help me understand this and is there anything else I need to know?
P.S. I have the engine, transmission, alternater, Coils, ECU, and wire harness from the '91, and i want to put it into my '80 SA, except I will probably run it with a MegaSquirt EFI