Theknifemaker

I have an 81 and put a new Nikki Carburator on it about 2 yrs ago (lucked up and found a new old stock). I installed it and it ran like a new car. Found out it had just been re-built. 72 lbs of pressure. Ran great until a yr. ago. Started to run rough and Kept trying to figure out what it was. Did not drive it much at all. Just a start every now and then. 2 to 3 months have gone by and I got in touch with the only shop in town that works on it and found out the guy passed away and spoke with his son and he said he would fix it. Took it to him. He called and said it was ready and the problem was that it needed the carb cleaned of gummed up fuel and he had to pull it to clean it. 1,000.00 to do this. Now I have been using Sea foam in the tank every since I got it (about every 5 tanks or so). He told me not to do that as it could hurt the seals. I would like to keep this car and have him work on it but only if this is fair abd I feel I can trust him. My question: Is a 1,000.00 a fair price? Thanks in advance.

lwrobins

Well, what is the hourly rate at this shop? Most are above $100 per , How many hours does this job pay? Diag time, what's the cost of parts? It adds up quickly...You said its the only shop in town that will work on it... So what choices do you have? Professional auto repair is expensive and difficult to find. allot of rotary owners tend to work on them themselves for these reasons.

Theknifemaker

At 100.00 an hour that would be 10 hrs. I put that carb on and it took about an 1 1/2 hrs and same to put it back on. So that's 3 hours. How many more to work and clean a carb? He did not install any new parts. I have soaked carbs in gallon carb cleaner and blown them out with air, cleaned jets and re=installed. So it seems this is high or am I missing something. The choice I have is to keep this car if he is honest or I will sell it if he is not as I will have no one to take it to that I can trust.

yeti

iTrader: (1)

Will the mechanic explain the charges? Perhaps, give you a line by line breakdown? Tell them you need it for your accountant or for taxes? Also, if you haven't already paid and the car is still there you may be incurring a parking fee.

Theknifemaker

On the phone the mechanic told me he had to pull the carb and clean it as it was gummed up. To me it seems a high bill. I wonder how much would it cost to have a carb re-built? I have not picked up the car yet as he called yesterday. I will pick up today.

KansasCityREPU

iTrader: (9)

Always best to know the cost before hand. Hourly rate, carb clean, etc.

Theknifemaker

"Always best to know the cost before hand. Hourly rate, carb clean, etc." I agree and thought he would have called before a big bill and let me know. I have done so much of my own work on this car but I just am not good enough to have done this so I will just pay. Just seems high to clean a carb. This shop will be closing and the mechanic claims he is going to open another shop. I just wish I could know to trust him.

yeti

iTrader: (1)

I don't know a lot about cleaning carbs.. I have taken apart and cleaned my weber 48 ida. Even with the cost of the ultrasonic machine, parts, and my time. I'm no where near $1000. My time isn't what a shop would charge but I still value my time at a respectable rate.

Maybe something was damaged by the mechanic and they are having you pay for it?

How much are weber clones? I think Holly carbs from racing beat are a little over $1000. You could almost buy a new carb! I know I'm not making it any better. I'd think $500 for the job is a lot closer to reality. I'm not sure what options you have for recourse especially with the shop closing. Hell, I'd say if there was any sort of warranty for the work it'll go with the shop. Looks like this is a lessons learned moment, unfortunately.

Toruki

I've never heard that Sea Foam would damage the seals and I wonder which he means (apex, corner, side seals, water jacket?) and the reasoning.

I think you will know very quickly if it was worth it when you pick it up and see if it's dramatically better running, or not. And when you pick it up, ask and talk in detail about what was done...it's completely reasonable to ask and he should be happy you're interested. It's a thousand bucks, you can ask questions.

You said it had been rebuilt and something about 72lbs? Is that the compression for all six faces? That sounds a bit low for a newly rebuilt engine, having seen 100 to 110 psi when people post here. I don't know what the best and worst numbers are but even older engines, people seem happy in the 90's for psi.

Theknifemaker

Well I went and picked it up. Runs like it should. He pulled the carb and cleaned it and set the timing and new fuell filter (about 8 bucks at parts house). I don't know what I could have done before as he is the only person I know who can work on them. In January the shop doors will close. As far as Seafoam, well I have been using it because the folks here said it was good stuff. I have an injected engine and my regular mechcanic says it is a must for the injector engines. Beats me what the guy meant but it does run good now. Just real expensive. Also no reciept and could not take credit or debit card. Well, now the decision of whether to keep the car or not as there may not be anyone to help me when It breaks again.

Toruki

You don't have fuel injection, it's a carbureted engine. You do have an oil metering pump (aka the OMP) that injects a little bit of engine oil into the throttle body and mixes it with the fuel/air charge to help to lubricate the rotors.

Everything you say about this experience is awful except that he got it running by cleaning the carb. Even a piston guy can clean carbs.

I would post a thread in https://www.rx7club.com/south-rx-7-forum-34/ and ask about good, recommended mechanics in your area, or close by. Also, search in there for local clubs etc.

Edit: If he replaced the fuel filter and set the timing, did he try to run the car before pulling off the carb to clean it? You said the Nikki was new old stock, installed 2 years ago and ran great. 2 yrs is pretty quick for a carb to get "gummed up".

Banzai

iTrader: (13)

This pretty much says it all. The only thing you may need Rotary experience for is splitting open the keg. Everything else on the car is general automotive knowledge. Seafoam is good, It helps clean carbon deposits and keeps the fuel system clean. I'd be more concerned with what type of fuel you feed it. Ethonal attracts moisture and can eat some seals. I avoid like the plague. Non-ethonal regular is fine if its available in your region. Otherwise, I'd bite the bullet and run premium.

yeti

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like someone is an abusive relationship.. I understand what you are saying but without the mechanics side of the story and the below quotes. I think you were taken on a ride.

No receipt and couldn't take credit card means it never happened, no paper trail or documentation. Sometimes that doesn't matter sometimes the paper trail does. In this case, you have zero recourse if the mechanic did you wrong.

Everything else doesn't matter if you are happy with the level of service! And Bonzai and Toruki are right. Anyone could work on the car it's just the rebuilding part that I'd look real hard into the builder.

Theknifemaker

I agree that most mechanic can work on them. But you have to convince them they can as the ones here in Shreveport (that I have dealt with) say they don't work on them and don't know how. I have a mechanic that has taken care of my cars for 30 yrs. Does good work. I took it to him and he got it to run better (he says but not really) and charged me 130.00 and stated he did not have the diag. tools and was as good as he could do. There is no argument between me and the mechanic who fixed the car. He stated that he cleaned the carb and adj. timing. I believe that was high price at 1,000.00. If I would have known that was the problem I could have done that. But I did not.
I wish there were mechanics here that were not scared to work on them. The Mazda dealership in the past referred me to the mechanic who passed away and said they don't work on rotary engines.
The thing is I love this car. I spent 6 yrs. replacing parts all over the car. Front end re-build, shocks and new springs, all kinds of rubber and bushings all over the suspension. Plus I hand sanded and completely worked over the body and a friend (a paint and body guy) helped me take all the hail damage and dents out of the car and then painted it. 6 months later my carport fell on it in an ice storm. Well I re-sanded and painted part of it and have more to do so I do have a lot into this car (not money but heart). If I cant get some one to do the things that are over my head....well, it has made me think that I may sell it. it's a decision I don't want to make. At least there are some great folks here that have helped and I thank all that have.

j_tso

iTrader: (2)

How long did the mechanic have the car? I bet a lot of this may be for labor, but $1,000 seems excessive.
If the they're closing up in January, sounds like this won't be a problem again.

Reminds me of this joke that engineering types like to tell:

lwrobins

Hey. I'm glad it's running again. Don't sell it you've been through allot together! I wouldn't be afraid of these cars, they are quite easy to work on. Even rebuilding the engine is easy compared to some piston engines. Just have to learn as much as possible, Knowledge is power....

Banzai

iTrader: (13)

Owning and maintaining any 30 or 40 year old vehicle is somewhat a labor of love. Unlike popular domestic classics, parts for ours are scarce and lack any substantial aftermarket support. The methods that current tech's use to digitally diagnose problems is completely different and don't really apply to our analog vehicles. Most all the older mechanics who have the institutional knowledge of the old methods and quirks specific to Rx-7's have retired or are on the verge.

This is just the natural way of things. Luckily, our cars are fairly simple, but it does put owners in a position to become more self-reliant and to seek out information and help to do things ourselves. Thats where this site plays such an important part. There is a broad base of knowledge on here and members who are willing to share their experience. There will come a time for all of us to pass along our ownership if it becomes beyond our means or commitment. Hopefully this site remains as a record of information for those who follow.

Ckforker

Now that you have it running right, keep it and enjoy it. These are simple cars, a little research and all the help here, I'm confident you can fix future problems.

This is a great community that loves to help one another.

holdover

Dang $1000.00 is way to much for a carb. rebuild/ cleaning, in my estimation, and 100 per hour or more is dealership prices, not small mechanic shop prices which should be no more than 50.00- 60.00 maybe a bit more in big city areas Think about it for a minute, if he gets 100 per hour and works 40 hours that is 4K per week or 200K per year if he takes 2 weeks vacation, that would cover a lot of overhead. I feel for you that can't do the work yourself or chose not to and are at the mercy of high prices, most of it is not rocket science. Don't get me wrong, a good knowledgeable mechanic is a great resource, I know a few and we lean on each other to get through rough patches where we haven't worked on a certain something., but it should be at a somewhat reasonable price. I did mechanical and auto-body work while in HS and college and did it on the side for over 20 years, I taught ASE auto mechanics at my local HS after I retired from my professional career. I still do it by restoring cars that I own , then selling them. I owned a garage and body shop for over 10 years back in the 60-70s. I understand what it takes to make a living doing the work and as an employer all the taxes you have to pay, plus lights heat, rent insurance etc. In your instance I would shop around, whenever you see a RX 7 where you live, find out who does the work on it, maybe someone who is on this forum will contact you and say who they use or offer to do work for you at a fair price. Here is a few tips that I have used for the last 60 years working on vehicles. Years ago before all the latest and greatest additives were being sold, we used about a quart of lacquer thinner added to a gas tank with about 10 gallons of gas to clean out gummed carbs, to see if it worked Before we rebuilt them, I still do. Seafoam works, I guess, many use it, but before paying $7.00 for a small can google what it is made of and make it your self for less than a dollar.

Best of luck and I hope all works out with you RX7

Merry Christmas from Virginia

Now with all that said, I wonder if your problem wasn't a clogged fuel filter to start with.

Ckforker

Holdover, what part of VA do you live in? I'm over here in Cape Charles.

Sorry for derailing the OPs thread.

yeti

iTrader: (1)

Holdover, $100/he isn't what the mechanic makes. He probably sees 30% of that at best. The rest goes to taxes, insurance, and the business.

Theknifemaker

This mechanic got it all as it was cash only and the shop is closing down. Thanks all and all have a merry Christmas.

holdover

I understand how a business works I have owned a few of them. In my past I also worked as a GM line mechanic at a dealership ( after college and the Marine Corps). The dealership charge of over 100.00 per hour for customer work not related to warranted service does not all go to the mechanic, but it also is a large profit margin for the dealership. They do not get that rate for fixing factory problems, but do get a bit more than what the mechanic gets paid. There is also insurance, taxes etc etc, but that is in all businesses, not just in the automotive world. Strange that you don't have to pay 10.00 for a box of cereal in a mom and pop store, after all for the most part they also have overhead. Typically dealerships and shops like Firestone & Goodyear are more expensive than a good privately owned shop. I occasionally help out at a local shop that is close by, the hourly rate is 50.00 for most everything, and they make a good living, and there is no extra charge like most dealerships for shop supplies, like shop rags etc. Customer only pays for what he gets in the way of parts, oil, antifreeze, in fact if a customer wants to bring his own parts that is OK also, but if that part becomes defective it is on the customer, if we supply a quality part and it goes defective in the warranted time, we fix it and are often compensated for the labor to replace it from the supplying distributor. I realize that not everyone can or wants to be a mechanic, nor can everyone afford the tools and equipment to do the work. I have well over 50k in tools and machines and that is a big investment, but it has been my job and my hobby for over 60 years. My son and grand kids have at their disposal a 40 X 60 garage, 2 lifts, Tig, Mig Arc and Gas welders, lathe, grinders, air tools 2 60 gallon compressors, paint guns and near any hand tool required to fix near any thing. I have been blessed with the ability, but also have a good support group of mechanically inclined friends to help me when I get in a jam, especially with diagnostic equipment for late model cars.

yeti

iTrader: (1)

Everything okay man? I wasn't attacking your credentials, thank you for the biography. Something to aspire to. Anyway, what's done is done as far as the carb job goes. Hopefully, to OP will keep the car and continue to enjoy it while searching for a great local mechanic. OP, I'd definitely check the local board it for other rotary guys. Happy holidays!

rxtasy3

iTrader: (2)

https://www.rx7club.com/midwest-rx-7-forum-32/