I saw this one yesterday. I met the owner and he said he was the second owner and purchased the car in 1989. Coincidentally I am the second owner and bought my GSL-SE in 1989 as well. Anyways, I was amazed to find out the car has the original 12A in it and has a little over 350,000. Before I bought mine, a mechanic on Long Island told me the 1983, 84 and 85 RX-7's could expect to get between 200,000 and 300,000 miles on them. I love my SE, but I think the 13b was a step down as far as longevity. The later 12a's are just awesome engines. I thought I was doing really well when I got 210,000 on my 13b.

 

Haha. I was tinkering with my 13B powered FB in the parking lot at work the other day when an old guy from another shop approched me. He went on a story about the 80s when he bought one new (a 12A powered 7) and put 300 000 + miles on it. Then the engine kicked it and he parked it then it went to the scrap yard.

The only problem he said he had out of it was blowing up exhausts. The remedy after the second exhaust was "some company out in califorina"

I asked "Racing Beat?".

He said "Yeah, thats the one. They fixed the problem with REAL thick walls on the exhausts. Must have been quater inch!"





All this talk of 12A longevity and my personal experince with the anti-longevity of the FC 13Bs. Makes me REALLY want to dive into my new 12A project.

 

FC engines have too much planned obsolescence. Mazda got it right with the GSL-SE. You could say Mazda got it right with the 12A, too.

FD engines don't even break 100k.

RX-8 engines die early due to carbon buildup in the side exhaust ports damaging side seals.

Mazda gets it right, then gets it wrong.

 

Long live the 12A. The Ultimate Rotary Engine.

 

The 12A is pretty sweet. I have a date with a black 85 today at 6pm! It has the original 12A in it with a aluminum flywheel, hogged out nikki, and long primary RB exhaust!

Im a bad person for seeking out personal pleasure on craigslist :C

 

My '81 is just shy of 110k miles, so I'm hopeful that I'll see 200k before I have to do anything to the engine. It'd be a shame to put a 13B in there.

 

HA! at under a 100K on my OE 12a, mine is obviously a BABY! Nice!
Hmmm. So maybe carting a NOS 12A back from europe (piece-by-piece) was a bit premature?
bugger.
Cheerful news for my 34yr-old engine....



Stu Aull
80GS
Alaska

 

I hope mine will make it to 300k, im at 84k right now, and shes clean inside the motor, I steam clean the inside every few months

 

while the enthusiast in me is warmed by this and is REQUIRED to stick it in the faces of the masses of "rotaries are unreliable" clowns out there; the mad scientist in me can't help but wonder what compression numbers on that engine look like and would love to lay all the parts out on my bench to photograph and spec them.

 

The really cool thing about 12A's DB, is they don't really need really good compression to run good.

I can show you lots of pics of the rotor housings removed from nicely running 12A's that wouldn't qualify for a rebuild. But they worked.

May we add to the 12A's already long list of excellent attributes "robustness"?

Hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And if it's a 12A, it's got another 50,000 miles for sure.

No need for compression tests with an engine that just keeps on pleasing.

 

you're preaching to the choir, Ray. no convincing necessary. i've seen my fair share of 12As that shouldn't run at all, much less run like a champ over the years. ones that had easily 80% of the chrome missing for a good 1/6 to 1/3 of the power-stroke section of the rotor housing ... and ... i've put some of them back together with said rotor housings and they ran just fine.

i've come full circle on the awesomeness of 12As. i started out in the 80s with 12As and somewhere along the way, i developed 13B-envy and became obsessed. i remember an acquaintance of mine (he's built some killer rotaries in his day. no. seriously! he has.) once told me "Jason, 13Bs are weak. They're nice, but if you want something to last, stick with the 12A." [those may or may not be his actual words, but it was the gist of what he said] he went off on some points that i admit now, at the time, i didn't fully grasp. bottomline, i finally got my hands on a 13B in the early 90s and it was quite a dismal experience. my 12As held it down until i tried again with the 13B in 2001 and got it right.

fast forward, to about 2004-05 when i chose to build an old 12A i had laying around to replace my ailing 13B. i remember what my friend told me many years ago and i swear to you, i got it!

if asked, i would still call myself a 13B-guy, but i also know that 12As are on another level from the 13B, which is why i choose to get 12A engines and parts whenever i am able and among my list of projects are 3 major 12A ones.

 

"Jason, 13Bs are weak. They're nice, but if you want something to last, stick with the 12A."

Truer words of wisdom have never been spoken.

 

That depends on the owner. If you dont maintain of course it wont last. In addition, it should last forever if its not a driven daily. Lastly, if its owned by a senior citizen, the motor will outlast the owner.

 

That was said, Ray, with the caveat of the GSL-SE having gotten it right. Keep the architecture of the 12A, add aux ports, fuel injection and displacement, and things only get better.

You're missing out, brother.

 

Or keep everything about the 12A that made it good, like the Nikki and nitrided irons, but throw in some 13B housings and rotors. Then you have the best of all scenarios, which is what I run.

 

Points well taken 13B brethren, I hear those 4 port 13Bs are pretty cool and FI is easy to maintain, if you can get it working.

Still, as a purist with a bunch of nice 12A rotor housings in the shed, I need to tip my hat to the Ultimate Rotary Engine of All Time, the 12A.

 

Cant teach old dog new tricks lol

 

Preach it brother ray!

Sent from my iPad using RX7Club. how bout that!

 

Ray, Crit and Jeff ~

... just to give a little more context, he was referring to the Gen II engines. at the time, i wanted a 13B real bad and the old Rx-4, REPU and Cosmo engines were not available to me. i was savvy enough to want "the big port" engines ('74 to '76), but everyone around me wanted them and i simply did not have the money or the connections to get a hold of one. the Gen II N/A engines were pretty plentiful and (most importantly) affordable, also T2 shortblocks would randomly show up for great deals, so for people like me, those were the 13Bs we would try to locate. where i lived at the time, if you said "13B" it was pretty much understood you were talking about a Gen II engine (we even referred to the Gen II car, as a whole, as a 13B ). if you wanted to talk about the older engine you'd say Rx-4 or Cosmo (we never really referred to the pickups much).

 

"I was amazed to find out the car has the original 12A in it and has a little over 350,000."


My aunt bought an '85 GSL brand new. No car has ever been so pampered. It had the 4 sp auto so the final drive ratio was lower than the manual. She had it dealer serviced every 3,000 miles. Drove it to work everyday 70 miles round trip, mostly on the hiway. It lasted 120,000 miles before the compression went and it was hard to start. I find 350K hard to believe...

 

So do I. 350k kilometers, maybe. 140k miles is about the limit I'd believe. Lucky for us these engines are so freakishly easy to change out, like a carb only bigger, that it should be a non-issue. It really should be - I don't get the whole stroke me down there because my 12A has wracked up several zeros behind a mileage number mentallity. I'd rather swap in a fresh rebuild for the peace of mind and knowing the engine's origin, not some unknown.

People shouldn't think that running an engine for such a long time is worthy of some sort of medal. All you're doing is driving around with less power and worse gas mileage. Not to mention a quickie engine rebuild on a rotary is about the easiest engine rebuild you could ever do. No line honing or valve grinding, well, no machining of any kind is required. But then they tend to believe that a car needing an engine is some sort of death sentence. It's just common belief systems and a desire for a "new car" at play I suppose. Lucky for us these cars were built well and last a good long time if maintaned.

 

That's a pretty rare find if I may say so myself. Very cool story and nice looking car for 350k miles.

 

I once disassembled a 12a whose apex seals looked like toothpicks!!! 227k on the clock. It was a little hard to start cold, but other than that it ran great. Chrome was nonexistent on the housings

 

I bet the apex slots in the rotors were ready for a set of Goopy oversized apex seals.

 

I looked at the odometer myself and the guy was roughly 50ish and had owned the car since 1989, so I'm certain he would know if the engine had been swapped. When I disassembled my 13b after 210k, the apex seals were out of spec, the grooves in both rotors were too wide, but the chrome was largely still intact - only one small strip 1/16th inch wide was missing in each housing. There is another thread on here somewhere showing a 12a car that was at 450k on the original motor. It is possible.