(TURBO) The Chronicles of a Turbo II Swap
12-27-03, 01:35 AM
#1
RX-7 Alumni
Thread Starter
(TURBO) The Chronicles of a Turbo II Swap
Well I’ve been on this forum for over a year now and thought I could contribute something for others pursuing a Turbo II swap into a GSL-SE. For the last year I have been planning how to do this swap, getting parts, and slowly getting ready for that day when the motor goes in—it’s finally here. My goal is to have a mostly stock TII engine that is emissions legal with improved exhaust and intake system (TID + filter)—hoping to get somewhere in the 200-220 hp range. The good/bad/ugly of it all with as many pics as I can put up.
A little history to how I got to where I’m at right now. I started by finding a cheap donor car that had a blown engine. By cheap that means one that was under $1000 and probably looks like crap inside and out. Well I ended up getting a beat up 10 AE that had a bad engine and ended up costing about $460 including the tow rental and taxes.
Here is what I took from the donor car: full long block engine, transmission with mounts, drive shaft (don’t need), front and engine wiring harness’s, air flow meter, ECU, knock control box, main fuse box, power steering pump, A/C compressor, all exhaust back to the Y-pipe, brake master check valve, clutch slave and master, throttle cable, cruise control (not sure if needed), both ignition coils with brackets, intercooler with hood gasket. After parting out the rest of the stuff and selling the car, it all cost $115 net and I still have some stuff to sell off.
I stripped down the engine and sent it off to Rotary Resurrection (Kevin Landers) for a rebuild. This engine was rough and dirty—the guy before me had let an oil leak go for forever and you know the rest. The engine had a real bad failure and ended up spinning a rotor bearing and cracking one of the plates. Here's a pic of the engine before teardown.
Rebuild cost was $1535 including round trip shipping, new front and rear oil seals, install modified SE front cover, and extra parts to replace the broken core parts. Kevin was great to work with and has spent some good time on the phone talking to me about the engine and other things. I would definitely go back to Kevin to have work done and he has the best prices in the US. Most important of all, I trust Kevin and his advice is sound—he’ll tell you like it is—no sugar coating.
Here is the short block after Kevin shipped it to me.
Spent many hours working on the SE and TII wiring diagrams (special thanks to www.iluvmyrx7.com FSM). I now have a very good understanding of these systems and feel very confident everything will work OK and not blow something up. Actually the work is not that bad—it was just figuring out how and what to do. Soon I will have finalized the wiring diagrams and plug connections for the conversion. I even figured out how to wire in the A/C and P/S to utilize the TII Air Supply Valve (ASV)—much like the SE uses the ASV. Later I’ll probably devote a post to just talking about the wiring mods. I have unwrapped and checked both the Front and EM wiring harness’s. The Front was OK as is, however, the EM needed much work. Probably spent a good 30 hours on this but it’s done right. Had broken wires, wires missing insulation, broken connectors, wires with too much resistance (bad connection) and crumble in your hand injector connectors. Fixed and replaced it all with soldered and heat shrink connections. Bought new female spade terminals and they work OK but have a tendency to push back out of the connectors. Just need to be careful to push them all the way on from the back of the connector—then they hold on just fine. Also beefed up the grounds on both harness’s.
More to follow soon.
Scott
A little history to how I got to where I’m at right now. I started by finding a cheap donor car that had a blown engine. By cheap that means one that was under $1000 and probably looks like crap inside and out. Well I ended up getting a beat up 10 AE that had a bad engine and ended up costing about $460 including the tow rental and taxes.
Here is what I took from the donor car: full long block engine, transmission with mounts, drive shaft (don’t need), front and engine wiring harness’s, air flow meter, ECU, knock control box, main fuse box, power steering pump, A/C compressor, all exhaust back to the Y-pipe, brake master check valve, clutch slave and master, throttle cable, cruise control (not sure if needed), both ignition coils with brackets, intercooler with hood gasket. After parting out the rest of the stuff and selling the car, it all cost $115 net and I still have some stuff to sell off.
I stripped down the engine and sent it off to Rotary Resurrection (Kevin Landers) for a rebuild. This engine was rough and dirty—the guy before me had let an oil leak go for forever and you know the rest. The engine had a real bad failure and ended up spinning a rotor bearing and cracking one of the plates. Here's a pic of the engine before teardown.
Rebuild cost was $1535 including round trip shipping, new front and rear oil seals, install modified SE front cover, and extra parts to replace the broken core parts. Kevin was great to work with and has spent some good time on the phone talking to me about the engine and other things. I would definitely go back to Kevin to have work done and he has the best prices in the US. Most important of all, I trust Kevin and his advice is sound—he’ll tell you like it is—no sugar coating.
Here is the short block after Kevin shipped it to me.
Spent many hours working on the SE and TII wiring diagrams (special thanks to www.iluvmyrx7.com FSM). I now have a very good understanding of these systems and feel very confident everything will work OK and not blow something up. Actually the work is not that bad—it was just figuring out how and what to do. Soon I will have finalized the wiring diagrams and plug connections for the conversion. I even figured out how to wire in the A/C and P/S to utilize the TII Air Supply Valve (ASV)—much like the SE uses the ASV. Later I’ll probably devote a post to just talking about the wiring mods. I have unwrapped and checked both the Front and EM wiring harness’s. The Front was OK as is, however, the EM needed much work. Probably spent a good 30 hours on this but it’s done right. Had broken wires, wires missing insulation, broken connectors, wires with too much resistance (bad connection) and crumble in your hand injector connectors. Fixed and replaced it all with soldered and heat shrink connections. Bought new female spade terminals and they work OK but have a tendency to push back out of the connectors. Just need to be careful to push them all the way on from the back of the connector—then they hold on just fine. Also beefed up the grounds on both harness’s.
More to follow soon.
Scott
12-27-03, 01:45 AM
#2
RX-7 Alumni
Thread Starter
Work I’ve already done
The long block has been built up stock except for three things. I decided to use an S5 turbo so I had to get an extra gasket for the manifold to turbo connection. The OMP system has been removed as I will use premix. To block off the oil injectors I bought some 10X1.25 socket head screws. These screws fit real nice in the small area allowed, however, I did have to shorten them a little bit.
Also, the front cover was drilled out for a turbo oil drain, here’s a close-up of it.
Installed the fuel pump relay resistor unit on the passenger side firewall where the sub-zero tank was. That sub-zero crap can safely be removed as I don’t think anyone needs it—especially me in Houston, TX—it rarely gets below 32 F. This location proved to be optimum in regards to wiring and an open space. Don’t think you must have this but I feel it will improve the fuel economy under cruise conditions. It basically lowers the fuel pump voltage which lowers the fuel pump output pressure—but only when you are cruising. Under acceleration or boost it returns the voltage/pressure back up to maximum. I would guess that to some extent the O2 sensor/ECU can also tune the injector pulses for optimum A/F ratio. I’ll definitely run some bigger wires back to the pump to try and get full voltage when it is needed.
Here is a pic of the fuel pump relay resistor installed.
Fabricated a bracket to hold the double ignition coil in the stock S4 location. One S4 bracket was used to mount it on the driver fender wall and the fabricated bracket was used to hold it along the driver shock tower. Relocation of all the relays was necessary, I actually think they came out better than stock. Fortunately no wiring mods were necessary. One relay for the S3 ACV will be removed—yeah—as it’s not needed for the new system. I did have to trim away the body metal that holds the relays in place—it would interfere with the double coil. Believe it or not I used a hammer and screwdriver to cut the metal—cut it off just like a can opener with a real clean cut.
Here's a pic of the double coil fit-up, also note the relay locations and the check valve in the master brake vacuum line.
The fusible link setup for the S3 was also replaced with the S4 unit. Both the S3 and S4 units mount in the same location. The S4 unit is much cleaner and you can actually get the fuses at an auto store—try finding a link. I was able to use the S4 bracket and one pre-made bolt hole on the S3 fender wall. One additional hole was drilled in the drivers side shock tower. The wires were just cut off and crimped to some larger female spade terminals. I’ll probably come back later and solder/heat shrink new terminals—I’m not happy with just crimps. Otherwise looks just fine to me.
Here's a pic of the S4 fuse block mounted.
As noted earlier, the master brake cylinder hose was modified to use a check valve that is removed from the S4. Just install it in the same location and make sure the arrow points to the engine. This check valve s necessary to prevent boost pressure from feeding back into the brake master and forcing your brake fluid out into the engine bay—this would be bad since you’ll loose brakes and the brake fluid eats paint.
Here is where I’m at right now. The long block is built up and ready for install.
I think tomorrow is the big day, pull the perfectly good engine/tranny from my GSL-SE.
Also, the front cover was drilled out for a turbo oil drain, here’s a close-up of it.
Installed the fuel pump relay resistor unit on the passenger side firewall where the sub-zero tank was. That sub-zero crap can safely be removed as I don’t think anyone needs it—especially me in Houston, TX—it rarely gets below 32 F. This location proved to be optimum in regards to wiring and an open space. Don’t think you must have this but I feel it will improve the fuel economy under cruise conditions. It basically lowers the fuel pump voltage which lowers the fuel pump output pressure—but only when you are cruising. Under acceleration or boost it returns the voltage/pressure back up to maximum. I would guess that to some extent the O2 sensor/ECU can also tune the injector pulses for optimum A/F ratio. I’ll definitely run some bigger wires back to the pump to try and get full voltage when it is needed.
Here is a pic of the fuel pump relay resistor installed.
Fabricated a bracket to hold the double ignition coil in the stock S4 location. One S4 bracket was used to mount it on the driver fender wall and the fabricated bracket was used to hold it along the driver shock tower. Relocation of all the relays was necessary, I actually think they came out better than stock. Fortunately no wiring mods were necessary. One relay for the S3 ACV will be removed—yeah—as it’s not needed for the new system. I did have to trim away the body metal that holds the relays in place—it would interfere with the double coil. Believe it or not I used a hammer and screwdriver to cut the metal—cut it off just like a can opener with a real clean cut.
Here's a pic of the double coil fit-up, also note the relay locations and the check valve in the master brake vacuum line.
The fusible link setup for the S3 was also replaced with the S4 unit. Both the S3 and S4 units mount in the same location. The S4 unit is much cleaner and you can actually get the fuses at an auto store—try finding a link. I was able to use the S4 bracket and one pre-made bolt hole on the S3 fender wall. One additional hole was drilled in the drivers side shock tower. The wires were just cut off and crimped to some larger female spade terminals. I’ll probably come back later and solder/heat shrink new terminals—I’m not happy with just crimps. Otherwise looks just fine to me.
Here's a pic of the S4 fuse block mounted.
As noted earlier, the master brake cylinder hose was modified to use a check valve that is removed from the S4. Just install it in the same location and make sure the arrow points to the engine. This check valve s necessary to prevent boost pressure from feeding back into the brake master and forcing your brake fluid out into the engine bay—this would be bad since you’ll loose brakes and the brake fluid eats paint.
Here is where I’m at right now. The long block is built up and ready for install.
I think tomorrow is the big day, pull the perfectly good engine/tranny from my GSL-SE.
12-27-03, 01:52 AM
#3
I Push My Car Real Fast!
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Riverside CA
Posts: 1,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
looks great i cant wait to see how the swap goes. im about to do my swap. i think i have every thing i need. i dont know to much about the wiring harness's tho. so this will help.
gj
gj
Trending Topics
12-27-03, 07:56 PM
#9
RX-7 Alumni
Thread Starter
Some progress today
Well, today I didn't make as much progress as hoped.
Ended up my wife's vehicle needed an oil change and I discovered a transmission cooler leak. Had to remove like 12 freaken bolts and a cross member just to get at the stinking hose clamp. I hate front wheel drives.
Anyway, back to the 7. I took the TII transmission apart to see what I would be up against as far as shifter tube modifications. Getting the dowel pin out of the end of the shifter tube was a PITA. Tried punching it out--that didn't work. Ended up just drilling the sucker out. I thought the tube was hollow but it is actually a solid bar of steel. While I could possibly make the cut and drill it myself, I think I'll have a professional machinist do this. Why--cause the hole location and radial position are critical to the correct operation of shifting--screw it up and your hosed. If anyone KNOWS the correct length to cut off the shaft please let me know. When I get this figured out a drawing is going up that will solve this problem once and for all.
As far as the car, got her up on jacks, drained engine/tranny oils, removed the hood, cooling fan, coils, afm, battery, wiper fluid container, and started disconnecting a bunch of wires and hoses.
I did take her for a spin before the knockdown. Damn I like that 13b--still running real good and strong.
Had to have at least one pic. Here's one of her during that last drive before knockdown.
Ended up my wife's vehicle needed an oil change and I discovered a transmission cooler leak. Had to remove like 12 freaken bolts and a cross member just to get at the stinking hose clamp. I hate front wheel drives.
Anyway, back to the 7. I took the TII transmission apart to see what I would be up against as far as shifter tube modifications. Getting the dowel pin out of the end of the shifter tube was a PITA. Tried punching it out--that didn't work. Ended up just drilling the sucker out. I thought the tube was hollow but it is actually a solid bar of steel. While I could possibly make the cut and drill it myself, I think I'll have a professional machinist do this. Why--cause the hole location and radial position are critical to the correct operation of shifting--screw it up and your hosed. If anyone KNOWS the correct length to cut off the shaft please let me know. When I get this figured out a drawing is going up that will solve this problem once and for all.
As far as the car, got her up on jacks, drained engine/tranny oils, removed the hood, cooling fan, coils, afm, battery, wiper fluid container, and started disconnecting a bunch of wires and hoses.
I did take her for a spin before the knockdown. Damn I like that 13b--still running real good and strong.
Had to have at least one pic. Here's one of her during that last drive before knockdown.
12-27-03, 08:36 PM
#11
RX-7 Alumni
Thread Starter
Originally posted by inittab
When do you plan on havin 'er back on the road again?
When do you plan on havin 'er back on the road again?
Scott
12-28-03, 09:00 PM
#13
RX-7 Alumni
Thread Starter
Engine/tranny ready to pull out!
Wanted to really get that engine out today but had a few snags, nothing major.
Took a few measurements for the driveshaft. Made some markings for the new tranny output shaft location--wanted to make sure the output shaft was in the exact same horizontal elevation.
Put in the TII ECU and atmos pressure transducer.
Right now it's all ready to pull out along with the tranny.
Think I'm gonna get my radiator refurbed while it's out.
Also, had to put together my new engine hoist. Was like $150--rental for two days is about $100 so I just bought one and can take my time with it. Sure I'll use it sometime.
First thing tomorrow morning the engine/tranny are coming out. Then I'll test fit the new engine/tranny so I can get the rest of my driveshaft measurements and get it on order ASAP.
Tomorrow I'll have some good pics.
Scott
Took a few measurements for the driveshaft. Made some markings for the new tranny output shaft location--wanted to make sure the output shaft was in the exact same horizontal elevation.
Put in the TII ECU and atmos pressure transducer.
Right now it's all ready to pull out along with the tranny.
Think I'm gonna get my radiator refurbed while it's out.
Also, had to put together my new engine hoist. Was like $150--rental for two days is about $100 so I just bought one and can take my time with it. Sure I'll use it sometime.
First thing tomorrow morning the engine/tranny are coming out. Then I'll test fit the new engine/tranny so I can get the rest of my driveshaft measurements and get it on order ASAP.
Tomorrow I'll have some good pics.
Scott
12-28-03, 10:07 PM
#14
Re: Engine/tranny ready to pull out!
Originally posted by Rex4Life
Took a few measurements for the driveshaft. Made some markings for the new tranny output shaft location--wanted to make sure the output shaft was in the exact same horizontal elevation.
Took a few measurements for the driveshaft. Made some markings for the new tranny output shaft location--wanted to make sure the output shaft was in the exact same horizontal elevation.
Make sure you do the TII tranny mod that Setzep was nice enough to write up (in the archives), and then get a new driveshaft made.
This way the shifter will come out in the exact same GSL-SE shifter location, and that's what you really want.
(Here's a hint - You have to measure for the driveshaft with the car on it's own weight, it can't be on jackstands).
12-28-03, 10:57 PM
#15
RX-7 Alumni
Thread Starter
Originally posted by DirectFreak
Just to help you out... You're not going to have a TII tranny output shaft end where the stock FB one was. If you do the shifter and engine are going to be "all out of place".
Make sure you do the TII tranny mod that Setzep was nice enough to write up (in the archives), and then get a new driveshaft made.
This way the shifter will come out in the exact same GSL-SE shifter location, and that's what you really want.
(Here's a hint - You have to measure for the driveshaft with the car on it's own weight, it can't be on jackstands).
Just to help you out... You're not going to have a TII tranny output shaft end where the stock FB one was. If you do the shifter and engine are going to be "all out of place".
Make sure you do the TII tranny mod that Setzep was nice enough to write up (in the archives), and then get a new driveshaft made.
This way the shifter will come out in the exact same GSL-SE shifter location, and that's what you really want.
(Here's a hint - You have to measure for the driveshaft with the car on it's own weight, it can't be on jackstands).
I was planning on using ramps for the back wheels and jack stands on the front frame rails--it's pretty level--DF think that will be OK to take that driveshaft measurement? The front engine/tranny are all rigid mount so I don't think the front wheels hanging will matter.
While you got me talking about the driveshaft, here is where I'm getting it from Thrash Driveshaft Specialists
These guys know what they are talking about. Mine is going to be about $260 shipped 3" diameter (like the TII) and all new components. Yes with common off the shelf replaceable u-joints. Price is on par with Mazdatrix.
Scott
12-29-03, 12:28 AM
#16
Sounds like you got it covered. When I mesured, I just jacked up the back of the car in the center, using the differential. (I have a shop style jack). Your idea seems fine as well.
$260 shipped is good. No local shops to make it for you though? I might have to take mine to get re-balanced, and I am glad their local. At about 85+, I get a little vibration, but I'll check the tires and such first.
$260 shipped is good. No local shops to make it for you though? I might have to take mine to get re-balanced, and I am glad their local. At about 85+, I get a little vibration, but I'll check the tires and such first.
12-29-03, 06:02 AM
#18
RX-7 Alumni
Thread Starter
Originally posted by DirectFreak
$260 shipped is good. No local shops to make it for you though? I might have to take mine to get re-balanced, and I am glad their local. At about 85+, I get a little vibration, but I'll check the tires and such first.
$260 shipped is good. No local shops to make it for you though? I might have to take mine to get re-balanced, and I am glad their local. At about 85+, I get a little vibration, but I'll check the tires and such first.
Originally posted by luiml73
All you need now is a Aftermarket ECU Haltech/Microtech/Wolf
All you need now is a Aftermarket ECU Haltech/Microtech/Wolf
The way I'm doing it all the hardware came from a donor car for like $100 (actually I will probably break even as I have more parts to sell). All total I should be able to finish up the project for under $4500--and if I really wanted to, I could have done it for under $3000. Soon I'll be posting a cost breakdown, that should answer anyones cost questions.
Thanks for your support,
Scott
12-29-03, 07:33 AM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: STLOUIS
Posts: 387
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wish i could have done my project for $3000. I just started mine about 3 days ago, it was my christmas present to myself. The driveshaft cost seems high or i just got a good deal at $155. Good luck with your swap!
12-29-03, 06:23 PM
#20
Rotary Freak
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: MN
Posts: 2,524
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I spent a touch over $300 for my shaft with all new replaceable parts, sounds like you are getting a deal. If I remember right the new driveshaft ended up being the same exact length as a FB one but with the T2 spline slip yoke.
As far as the new hole in the shift rod just follow the write up I made last year, it's been working for me and several others.
I like how you are doing your swap, it takes ***** to take a part a 100% nice -se and do this to it. 200-220 should just enough fun to keep you and your rear tires happy. It's great having a ton of power to spin the rears in 3rd gear but if I were to make a daily driver I'd do what you are doing. Good job.
As far as the new hole in the shift rod just follow the write up I made last year, it's been working for me and several others.
I like how you are doing your swap, it takes ***** to take a part a 100% nice -se and do this to it. 200-220 should just enough fun to keep you and your rear tires happy. It's great having a ton of power to spin the rears in 3rd gear but if I were to make a daily driver I'd do what you are doing. Good job.
12-29-03, 09:35 PM
#23
RX-7 Alumni
Thread Starter
Engine is Out!
Well it started one of those days nothing would work right--but I got through it neverless. Problems jacking up the car in the garage and clearances with the engine lift. These 7's sure can be a bitch jacking up.
Pulled the engine, had to use the jack on the tranny and the engine lift mounted to the front lift ring and the alternator bolt location on the waterpump. Damn engine lift was short on reach and ended up scratching the front plastic bumper a little. I'm gonna take that bitch back tomorrow for a refund. The web site says 48" reach but I measure only 36"--no way I can put an engine back in with that one.
Here it is after removal.
Next I decided to start work on the tranny. Here's the two of them, the SE on the left and the TII on the right.
Best I can tell the length of the two are the same, and this matches what Setzep said earlier about the modified driveshaft being the same length as the SE driveshaft.
Now on to the extension housing modifications. When the TII shifter box was still on the extension housing, I marked the location of the rear bolts on the shifter tube. Then I installed the FB shifter box with the TII shifter tube onto the TII extension housing (got it all there). Here is what it looks like (but the shifter box is mounted offset for marking purposes).
Note the ruler in the above photo is in english units (inches).
Then I added a mark to show the the new location of the rear bolts. The difference comes up to 2cm just like Setzep's write-up.
In this pic you can barely see the 2cm measurement.
The mark on the left is the new reference of the rear bolts, the one on the right is where the rear bolts were on the original setup (FC).
Well long enough of a day. Tomorrow is going to be a slow day. Hopefully I can get the shifter rod dimensions checked out.
Scott
p.s. still haven't decided what to do with the oil pressure control valve. But I know I won't buy the 80-85 psi one--not for $90. Still thinking about your shim idea DF.
Pulled the engine, had to use the jack on the tranny and the engine lift mounted to the front lift ring and the alternator bolt location on the waterpump. Damn engine lift was short on reach and ended up scratching the front plastic bumper a little. I'm gonna take that bitch back tomorrow for a refund. The web site says 48" reach but I measure only 36"--no way I can put an engine back in with that one.
Here it is after removal.
Next I decided to start work on the tranny. Here's the two of them, the SE on the left and the TII on the right.
Best I can tell the length of the two are the same, and this matches what Setzep said earlier about the modified driveshaft being the same length as the SE driveshaft.
Now on to the extension housing modifications. When the TII shifter box was still on the extension housing, I marked the location of the rear bolts on the shifter tube. Then I installed the FB shifter box with the TII shifter tube onto the TII extension housing (got it all there). Here is what it looks like (but the shifter box is mounted offset for marking purposes).
Note the ruler in the above photo is in english units (inches).
Then I added a mark to show the the new location of the rear bolts. The difference comes up to 2cm just like Setzep's write-up.
In this pic you can barely see the 2cm measurement.
The mark on the left is the new reference of the rear bolts, the one on the right is where the rear bolts were on the original setup (FC).
Well long enough of a day. Tomorrow is going to be a slow day. Hopefully I can get the shifter rod dimensions checked out.
Scott
p.s. still haven't decided what to do with the oil pressure control valve. But I know I won't buy the 80-85 psi one--not for $90. Still thinking about your shim idea DF.
Last edited by Rex4Life; 12-29-03 at 09:38 PM.
12-29-03, 09:42 PM
#24
RX-7 Alumni
Thread Starter
Check Valve
Oh yea, about the check valve. I heard some guy had problems with the boost pressure feeding back into the master cylinder. Blowing out the fluid and such. Don't know for sure you really need it.
For me it was and easy thing to swap over from the TII--so I did it.
For me it was and easy thing to swap over from the TII--so I did it.
