(ENGINE) How did you mount your T2 in your FB?
05-17-07, 04:58 PM
#1
Rotary Freakazoid
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(ENGINE) How did you mount your T2 in your FB?
Im installing a T2 into an 81 and i have the tranny in place and the engine about where i need it.
The only thing i need is to make the engine mounts and befor i go and cut the old off and make new custom ones i thought i would check and see what other people who dont have a machine shop did.
Hopefully this will aid in my final plans.
The only thing i need is to make the engine mounts and befor i go and cut the old off and make new custom ones i thought i would check and see what other people who dont have a machine shop did.
Hopefully this will aid in my final plans.
05-17-07, 07:50 PM
#5
Fast-Trash
05-17-07, 08:02 PM
#6
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i have what you need for sale, you may need to tap the front cover for an oil line for the turbo.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=652525
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=652525
05-17-07, 08:06 PM
#7
You haven't been doing your homework and are making the install much harder than it needs to be. Hate to see what happens when it comes to the wiring changes.
You cannot center mount the TII unless you plan on changeing the steering system too, good luck.
You cannot center mount the TII unless you plan on changeing the steering system too, good luck.
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05-17-07, 08:37 PM
#9
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Then what do you do? I hadn't read that, but I haven't been but browsing by those threads
05-17-07, 08:58 PM
#10
Lives on the Forum
I am confident that Nick is capable of getting this done, and he may surprise some of you with how he goes about it too. My car might even be next in line for a bit of boost....
05-17-07, 09:49 PM
#11
Building custom motor mounts is simply an exercise in extra work that's not needed. As far as how to center mount an 86+ engine in a 1st gen body, I've never looked into it. I do know one thing though. If one can't transfer the loads of the mounts to the center cross subframe, it will not hold up. The frame rails are too thin on the outside to be able to weld a mount to and have them hold over the long term. If this route is taken, the mount would need bolts that pass all the way through the frame rail. This is a fine idea until one torques the bolts down and finds that the frame rail is crushing because there isn't enough internal bracing in the frame rail to prevent it. What do I base that supposition on, look at the mounting points for the idler arm and the steering box. Both have sleeves built into the frame rails to prevent them from crushing.
One might be surprised how much they can learn in regards to the hows and whys a unibody is built when they get out the sawzall and cut up the shell to see where internal bracing is or isn't.
If MIB chooses to pursue the center mount, far be it from me to stop him. I'm simply telling what has and does work and has been the simplest/easiest way to install an 86+ engine in a 1st gen. A methodology that has proven it's viability for for years with long term results.
So back to my 1st question, what am I missing in my 1st post?
05-17-07, 10:28 PM
#12
fasterthanaspeedingticket
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Actually, I didn't, I had just gotten up before I posted my reply. Did I miss something here? The oil pans are reversed between the 1st and 2nd gens due to the center link/R&P being on different sides of the cross centerline of the engine. That is why the SE oil pan is a must. As far as motor mounts, either 1st gen front cover will work, depending on how one chooses to handle the mop. The SE cover accommodates the 4 line mop, the 12A cover has 2.
Building custom motor mounts is simply an exercise in extra work that's not needed. As far as how to center mount an 86+ engine in a 1st gen body, I've never looked into it. I do know one thing though. If one can't transfer the loads of the mounts to the center cross subframe, it will not hold up. The frame rails are too thin on the outside to be able to weld a mount to and have them hold over the long term. If this route is taken, the mount would need bolts that pass all the way through the frame rail. This is a fine idea until one torques the bolts down and finds that the frame rail is crushing because there isn't enough internal bracing in the frame rail to prevent it. What do I base that supposition on, look at the mounting points for the idler arm and the steering box. Both have sleeves built into the frame rails to prevent them from crushing.
One might be surprised how much they can learn in regards to the hows and whys a unibody is built when they get out the sawzall and cut up the shell to see where internal bracing is or isn't.
If MIB chooses to pursue the center mount, far be it from me to stop him. I'm simply telling what has and does work and has been the simplest/easiest way to install an 86+ engine in a 1st gen. A methodology that has proven it's viability for for years with long term results.
So back to my 1st question, what am I missing in my 1st post?
Building custom motor mounts is simply an exercise in extra work that's not needed. As far as how to center mount an 86+ engine in a 1st gen body, I've never looked into it. I do know one thing though. If one can't transfer the loads of the mounts to the center cross subframe, it will not hold up. The frame rails are too thin on the outside to be able to weld a mount to and have them hold over the long term. If this route is taken, the mount would need bolts that pass all the way through the frame rail. This is a fine idea until one torques the bolts down and finds that the frame rail is crushing because there isn't enough internal bracing in the frame rail to prevent it. What do I base that supposition on, look at the mounting points for the idler arm and the steering box. Both have sleeves built into the frame rails to prevent them from crushing.
One might be surprised how much they can learn in regards to the hows and whys a unibody is built when they get out the sawzall and cut up the shell to see where internal bracing is or isn't.
If MIB chooses to pursue the center mount, far be it from me to stop him. I'm simply telling what has and does work and has been the simplest/easiest way to install an 86+ engine in a 1st gen. A methodology that has proven it's viability for for years with long term results.
So back to my 1st question, what am I missing in my 1st post?
05-17-07, 11:05 PM
#14
fasterthanaspeedingticket
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^ dazed by your overwelming knowledge
you actually cleared up a few ?'s i was going to ask about running through the frame rails, and the fact that i will have to source an se oil pan...
you actually cleared up a few ?'s i was going to ask about running through the frame rails, and the fact that i will have to source an se oil pan...
05-17-07, 11:13 PM
#15
FB+FC=F-ME
Trochoid is right,and Ill back him up on his advise.
Seeing as how Ive had a TII engine in my dailydriver for over 6 years now,I can assure you that the standard 1st gen mounting setup is the simplest,safest way to go.Its an easy,"remove and replace" job to install a GSL-SE front cover and oilpan onto a S4 TII engine.It will make the engine install just like stock and there is even a little pad for drilling and tapping a turbo oil drain pipe.
This is a basic install issue when the TII swap is attempted,and honestly it should have been easily resolved with a quick search of the site.We do get about 5-6, "How do I install a TII?" questions a week here.It gets old answering the same basic questions over and over.Simply reading for a few hours can get you all the knowledge you need for a complete swap......and yea,there are a lot more difficult things to come,after the engine is setting in the car.
Please note,the S4 (87-88) TII engine is the only one that will install easily.The S5(89-92) engine requires some custom work to the SE front cover so that the electric OMP can be retained.This only applies if you are keeping the stock EFI.
Seeing as how Ive had a TII engine in my dailydriver for over 6 years now,I can assure you that the standard 1st gen mounting setup is the simplest,safest way to go.Its an easy,"remove and replace" job to install a GSL-SE front cover and oilpan onto a S4 TII engine.It will make the engine install just like stock and there is even a little pad for drilling and tapping a turbo oil drain pipe.
This is a basic install issue when the TII swap is attempted,and honestly it should have been easily resolved with a quick search of the site.We do get about 5-6, "How do I install a TII?" questions a week here.It gets old answering the same basic questions over and over.Simply reading for a few hours can get you all the knowledge you need for a complete swap......and yea,there are a lot more difficult things to come,after the engine is setting in the car.
Please note,the S4 (87-88) TII engine is the only one that will install easily.The S5(89-92) engine requires some custom work to the SE front cover so that the electric OMP can be retained.This only applies if you are keeping the stock EFI.
05-17-07, 11:19 PM
#16
Ya mounting the TII motor into the first gen chassis is pretty straight forward, like Steve and Scott have mentioned. Research is the biggest thing when doing a swap like this, ALOT of people have done this swap and there is the information if you just searched a little bit on this site.
Personally I know with my swap im more concerned with getting the TII transmission mounted and working the way I want it to.
Personally I know with my swap im more concerned with getting the TII transmission mounted and working the way I want it to.
05-17-07, 11:23 PM
#17
Fast-Trash
Man in Black, this is a tried and true method for installing a 13b in a 1st gen. Just source these parts and you'll have no trouble getting the motor into the car:
GSL-SE parts:
Oil pan
Oil pan gasket
Oil pickup tube
12A or GSL-SE parts:
front cover
front cover gasket
front crossmember
transmission crossmember
Home depot:
3/4 Box steel (you only need 3 inches worth)
8mm x 1.25 x 45mm metric bolts and lock washers
On the engine:
Take off the TII oil pan, front cover and oil-pickup tube. Discard these elements, you won't need them. Drill and tap any spot on the first-gen front cover for the oil drain. Install the oil-pickup tube, front cover and oil pan with their respective gaskets.
On the tranny:
Remove every bit of the TII crossmember gear, including the soft rubber mounts and the large single bolt held on by two smaller bolts on the bottom of the tranny. The two smaller bolt holes are where your mount will be made.
Get your hands dirty, hold a piece of paper flat against the area surrounding the bolt holes and smudge the paper with your dirty hands. you should get an impression of the bolt holes as they are on the tranny. Use this impression to drill two holes in the 3/4 box steel. Cut the box steel into a section no longer than the width of the flat area on the bottom of the tranny. You now have a tranny mount.
Installation:
Join the engine and trans, and attach the front crossmember. Sit the motor in the car on the stock mounts. Lift and support the rear of the tranny into the tunnel, and notch the metal at the rear of the shifter hole in the tunnel to clear the rear of the tailshaft.
Drill two holes in the crossmember using the same template you used to drill the box steel mount. You'll have to drill the holes about 1/2" rearward of the stock mount holes on the crossmember. Use the 45mm long bolts to secure the crossmember, mount and tranny together.
That's all there is to it. I ran this exact setup with an S4 TII motor and T04 turbo that put down over 300hp. My new motor is likely to make over 400hp, and I've used the exact installation steps I just described to you with a slight difference in material used for the tranny mount.
For further reading, check out this thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/1st-gen-archive-71/turbo-chronicles-turbo-ii-swap-255020/
Check out my setup in this thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generation-specific-1979-1985-18/pics-half-bridge-rew-62-1-bound-my-se-648276/
Mazda engineers apparently worked very hard to make the most painless engine swap in history... Don't try to reinvent the wheel.
GSL-SE parts:
Oil pan
Oil pan gasket
Oil pickup tube
12A or GSL-SE parts:
front cover
front cover gasket
front crossmember
transmission crossmember
Home depot:
3/4 Box steel (you only need 3 inches worth)
8mm x 1.25 x 45mm metric bolts and lock washers
On the engine:
Take off the TII oil pan, front cover and oil-pickup tube. Discard these elements, you won't need them. Drill and tap any spot on the first-gen front cover for the oil drain. Install the oil-pickup tube, front cover and oil pan with their respective gaskets.
On the tranny:
Remove every bit of the TII crossmember gear, including the soft rubber mounts and the large single bolt held on by two smaller bolts on the bottom of the tranny. The two smaller bolt holes are where your mount will be made.
Get your hands dirty, hold a piece of paper flat against the area surrounding the bolt holes and smudge the paper with your dirty hands. you should get an impression of the bolt holes as they are on the tranny. Use this impression to drill two holes in the 3/4 box steel. Cut the box steel into a section no longer than the width of the flat area on the bottom of the tranny. You now have a tranny mount.
Installation:
Join the engine and trans, and attach the front crossmember. Sit the motor in the car on the stock mounts. Lift and support the rear of the tranny into the tunnel, and notch the metal at the rear of the shifter hole in the tunnel to clear the rear of the tailshaft.
Drill two holes in the crossmember using the same template you used to drill the box steel mount. You'll have to drill the holes about 1/2" rearward of the stock mount holes on the crossmember. Use the 45mm long bolts to secure the crossmember, mount and tranny together.
That's all there is to it. I ran this exact setup with an S4 TII motor and T04 turbo that put down over 300hp. My new motor is likely to make over 400hp, and I've used the exact installation steps I just described to you with a slight difference in material used for the tranny mount.
For further reading, check out this thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/1st-gen-archive-71/turbo-chronicles-turbo-ii-swap-255020/
Check out my setup in this thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generation-specific-1979-1985-18/pics-half-bridge-rew-62-1-bound-my-se-648276/
Mazda engineers apparently worked very hard to make the most painless engine swap in history... Don't try to reinvent the wheel.
.......
05-18-07, 12:07 PM
#23
fasterthanaspeedingticket
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