input? na power and thoughts
01-29-13, 12:12 PM
#1
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input? na power and thoughts
so i was planning some power increase and wanted other thoughts.
mods are true duel rb header and prescilencer joined with old school hks mufflers ,fast wideband just the single analog one, apexi safc , tb mod, msd plug wires , elecrtic fan ,and an open kn filter ,and a tune , all on a stock port
i also have some 550 injectors , just didnt think i would need them on a stock port?
unless you think i would see a gain
what do you guys think anything i should change or add , i do not want to take the block apart
mods are true duel rb header and prescilencer joined with old school hks mufflers ,fast wideband just the single analog one, apexi safc , tb mod, msd plug wires , elecrtic fan ,and an open kn filter ,and a tune , all on a stock port
i also have some 550 injectors , just didnt think i would need them on a stock port?
unless you think i would see a gain
what do you guys think anything i should change or add , i do not want to take the block apart
01-29-13, 12:23 PM
#2
The Atkins or Pineapple 6 port sleeves might be a nice addition if you dont have those already - and also ensure your 6 ports are working to begin with! If you have an S5 intake - ensure the VDI is working.
I was able to break loose the 6 ports by unhooking the pots, then spraying the actuators with WD-40 and wiggling them / working them back and forth.
One of the things I'm doing on my N/A build is ceramic coating the exhaust and intake to reduce (rather: prolong) heat soak from the exhaust into the intake. In addition to this you should also block off the engine-facing ACV port (for S5 intakes). This port litterally takes exhaust gas into the intake to heat it up. *shudders*
Pic of it welded (center tab below the two intake runners):
I was able to break loose the 6 ports by unhooking the pots, then spraying the actuators with WD-40 and wiggling them / working them back and forth.
One of the things I'm doing on my N/A build is ceramic coating the exhaust and intake to reduce (rather: prolong) heat soak from the exhaust into the intake. In addition to this you should also block off the engine-facing ACV port (for S5 intakes). This port litterally takes exhaust gas into the intake to heat it up. *shudders*
Pic of it welded (center tab below the two intake runners):
01-29-13, 12:39 PM
#3
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Check out the archives...
RB header and exhasut are good. You can slightly port-match the header to the port with a Dremel.
Apexi SAFC + Wideband + tune is good
TB mod is iffy - stock TB's are getting hard to find, don't damage yours, buy a modded one for a little bit of nothing.
Plug wires are plug wires, test according to FSM and if good don't replace them.
Stick with stock mechanical fan. e-fan is overrated, hard to find one powerful enough, big load on electrical system, etc. I've been down this road with multiple cars.
I had excellent results running a dose of Redline injector cleaner though the injectors, cured a hot-start issue. Redline or Seafoam on a good-condition engine is not a bad idea.
K&N filter in stock airbox is good. Stock airbox is a 'cold air intake' already, removing it will increase intake temps.
No bigger injectors are necessary; the safc will probably pull fuel out, not put more in.
If this is a 6-port, try the Atkins insterts and make sure everything is working properly.
A CDI ignition may be worthwhile, $150 or so.
my 2cents, cheers
RB header and exhasut are good. You can slightly port-match the header to the port with a Dremel.
Apexi SAFC + Wideband + tune is good
TB mod is iffy - stock TB's are getting hard to find, don't damage yours, buy a modded one for a little bit of nothing.
Plug wires are plug wires, test according to FSM and if good don't replace them.
Stick with stock mechanical fan. e-fan is overrated, hard to find one powerful enough, big load on electrical system, etc. I've been down this road with multiple cars.
I had excellent results running a dose of Redline injector cleaner though the injectors, cured a hot-start issue. Redline or Seafoam on a good-condition engine is not a bad idea.
K&N filter in stock airbox is good. Stock airbox is a 'cold air intake' already, removing it will increase intake temps.
No bigger injectors are necessary; the safc will probably pull fuel out, not put more in.
If this is a 6-port, try the Atkins insterts and make sure everything is working properly.
A CDI ignition may be worthwhile, $150 or so.
my 2cents, cheers
01-29-13, 12:55 PM
#4
Oh right! Get those injectors cleaned!
WitchHunter Performance - Injector Cleaning & Flow Testing Services
And make sure that o2 sensor is immaculate (you've recently replaced yours with wideband right?) Those two alone can take you from "Meh" to "GAH!"
WitchHunter Performance - Injector Cleaning & Flow Testing Services
And make sure that o2 sensor is immaculate (you've recently replaced yours with wideband right?) Those two alone can take you from "Meh" to "GAH!"
01-29-13, 10:25 PM
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Nice thank you guys for the input I will look into those things and just hope for the best . I was just going to tinker with this until I can drop in a t2, so wasn't looking to really spend a ton of money
01-30-13, 11:29 AM
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your setup is pretty good, the next easy thing is just to change the tube between the AFM and the throttle body, i know its like 5" on the outside, but its only like 2" on the inside....
oh and port match the header to the block, the exhaust port is 48mm, and the header is 44mm, plenty of meat to make it a better match
oh and port match the header to the block, the exhaust port is 48mm, and the header is 44mm, plenty of meat to make it a better match
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01-30-13, 11:40 AM
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look in it, its teeny inside!
01-30-13, 08:09 PM
#10
Old [Sch|F]ool
The mechanical fan is best installed in the nearest dumpster.
A good electric fan cools better, and really for 99% of the time you don't need any fan. I never turn mine on unless I'm sitting still for more than 5-10 minutes, on the street.
A good electric fan cools better, and really for 99% of the time you don't need any fan. I never turn mine on unless I'm sitting still for more than 5-10 minutes, on the street.
01-30-13, 10:11 PM
#11
The biggest problem I've run into with electrical fans is reliability. All the Taurus fans I tried were end of lifers, lasted weeks before dying.
The most important part of the fan is the shroud, and I've not seen one e-fan (that is new, anyways, that Taurus fan fit perfect) that actually looks good AND is correctly shrouded.
Ya know I may just have to retrofit an e-fan into the stock shroud and write a tutorial on it...
01-31-13, 10:53 AM
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i'm not even running a fan at all, although street use is rare...
i actually have seen a few fans die, especially those black magic ones that were all the rage a few years ago, they fail in any way you can think of.
i had good luck with my Spal fans, they were not cheap, but they were quiet and reliable.
i do wonder about proper ducting, as it helps when the fan is on, but hurts when the fan is off...
i actually have seen a few fans die, especially those black magic ones that were all the rage a few years ago, they fail in any way you can think of.
i had good luck with my Spal fans, they were not cheap, but they were quiet and reliable.
i do wonder about proper ducting, as it helps when the fan is on, but hurts when the fan is off...
01-31-13, 01:01 PM
#15
Information Regurgitator
I've been running an E-fan since my stocker died around '01. Not had any problems. I think it is this fan.
Perma-Cool High Performance Electric Fans 19114 - SummitRacing.com
the Perma-cool "finger chopper". Can't remember if mine is the 14" or the 16". Of course most on here don't/won't like it because it's not "ducted" I've not had any cooling problems due to the fan. Besides at highway speeds when it's not needed it has less restriction to flow.
I've also noticed a common theme on here with E-fans. People get them from the junk yard,don't set them up right with a thermostat control, and then complain how they are no good and don't cool/last instead of just buying a new fan of known quality and known cfm ratings.
Perma-Cool High Performance Electric Fans 19114 - SummitRacing.com
the Perma-cool "finger chopper". Can't remember if mine is the 14" or the 16". Of course most on here don't/won't like it because it's not "ducted" I've not had any cooling problems due to the fan. Besides at highway speeds when it's not needed it has less restriction to flow.
I've also noticed a common theme on here with E-fans. People get them from the junk yard,don't set them up right with a thermostat control, and then complain how they are no good and don't cool/last instead of just buying a new fan of known quality and known cfm ratings.
01-31-13, 05:04 PM
#16
Old [Sch|F]ool
Right... junkyard parts... why was the car in the junkyard?
Plus, and let's be honest, the Taurus fan isn't so great. I'm also not really impressed with the SPAL fans that we've put in customer cars.
What I use, and bring up as often as possible, is the 300M fan setup. With both fans on high, it will cool a 200+hp engine in real time. On the other hand, with both fans on high, it pulls almost 60 amps, but with great cooling capacity comes great current requirements.
They're also quieter than the SPAL fans.
Downsides - it is big. It overlaps the FB radiator by four or so inches on both sides. (It will not fit - WILL not fit - if you have the battery in the stock location) It's also expensive - the motors themselves are something like $200 a pop.
Plus, and let's be honest, the Taurus fan isn't so great. I'm also not really impressed with the SPAL fans that we've put in customer cars.
What I use, and bring up as often as possible, is the 300M fan setup. With both fans on high, it will cool a 200+hp engine in real time. On the other hand, with both fans on high, it pulls almost 60 amps, but with great cooling capacity comes great current requirements.
They're also quieter than the SPAL fans.
Downsides - it is big. It overlaps the FB radiator by four or so inches on both sides. (It will not fit - WILL not fit - if you have the battery in the stock location) It's also expensive - the motors themselves are something like $200 a pop.
01-31-13, 06:58 PM
#17
Right... junkyard parts... why was the car in the junkyard?
Plus, and let's be honest, the Taurus fan isn't so great. I'm also not really impressed with the SPAL fans that we've put in customer cars.
What I use, and bring up as often as possible, is the 300M fan setup. With both fans on high, it will cool a 200+hp engine in real time. On the other hand, with both fans on high, it pulls almost 60 amps, but with great cooling capacity comes great current requirements.
They're also quieter than the SPAL fans.
Downsides - it is big. It overlaps the FB radiator by four or so inches on both sides. (It will not fit - WILL not fit - if you have the battery in the stock location) It's also expensive - the motors themselves are something like $200 a pop.
Plus, and let's be honest, the Taurus fan isn't so great. I'm also not really impressed with the SPAL fans that we've put in customer cars.
What I use, and bring up as often as possible, is the 300M fan setup. With both fans on high, it will cool a 200+hp engine in real time. On the other hand, with both fans on high, it pulls almost 60 amps, but with great cooling capacity comes great current requirements.
They're also quieter than the SPAL fans.
Downsides - it is big. It overlaps the FB radiator by four or so inches on both sides. (It will not fit - WILL not fit - if you have the battery in the stock location) It's also expensive - the motors themselves are something like $200 a pop.
01-31-13, 07:48 PM
#18
Old [Sch|F]ool
I'm trying to cool a car down that spends one or two minutes at heavy throttle, with little actual airspeed, and minimal time for cooldown between runs, at air temps up to 105F.
I have finally succeeded, but it has been a real PITA getting there. My next problem is that my ECU overheats. The chips fry but the engine runs nice and cool
And on the street, a fan isn't even really necessary. I don't turn the fans on until the coolant temp gets up to 200-210f. It takes a LOT of idling to get up that high, so it's never really a problem. Once moving, temps drop back down to 160-170f.
I have finally succeeded, but it has been a real PITA getting there. My next problem is that my ECU overheats. The chips fry but the engine runs nice and cool
And on the street, a fan isn't even really necessary. I don't turn the fans on until the coolant temp gets up to 200-210f. It takes a LOT of idling to get up that high, so it's never really a problem. Once moving, temps drop back down to 160-170f.
02-01-13, 07:17 AM
#19
Rotary Freak
I'm trying to cool a car down that spends one or two minutes at heavy throttle, with little actual airspeed, and minimal time for cooldown between runs, at air temps up to 105F.
I have finally succeeded, but it has been a real PITA getting there. My next problem is that my ECU overheats. The chips fry but the engine runs nice and cool And on the street, a fan isn't even really necessary. I don't turn the fans on until the coolant temp gets up to 200-210f. It takes a LOT of idling to get up that high, so it's never really a problem. Once moving, temps drop back down to 160-170f.
I have finally succeeded, but it has been a real PITA getting there. My next problem is that my ECU overheats. The chips fry but the engine runs nice and cool
And on the street, a fan isn't even really necessary. I don't turn the fans on until the coolant temp gets up to 200-210f. It takes a LOT of idling to get up that high, so it's never really a problem. Once moving, temps drop back down to 160-170f.On topic, we run an Acura fan and shroud on our racing rad. Our car runs at idle for about 5 minutes without the fan on while the temps build up to about 200. turn the fan on and it drops to less than 165 (at ambient temps of about 70 degrees). System works great and has been in the car for about 7 years with no issues. Once on track I turn off the fan entirely unless I am drafting a ton then I need to turn it back on.
Eric
02-01-13, 10:34 AM
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my E11 used to get hot too, to the point where the computer would bork, and the car would stop running. it actually helped to dangle the ecu in the air, and Higgi went and put fans on his ecu. mounting it in the stock spot is a no go, it at least needs to go in the glovebox
this is on 3 rotors where you're using ALL of the outputs on the computer
this is on 3 rotors where you're using ALL of the outputs on the computer
02-01-13, 10:38 AM
#21
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streetcar - a lot of folks go e-fan (mine included) but there are a lot of drawbacks. I too have had reliability failures.
The stock mech fan, with shroud, on stock or upgraded rad, is and has been proven many times!
racecar - rather different, for may reasons
The stock mech fan, with shroud, on stock or upgraded rad, is and has been proven many times!
racecar - rather different, for may reasons
02-01-13, 12:57 PM
#22
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We've drifted off topic abit as it looks like the op already has an e-fan.
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