80% Pump----- 20% Methanol
09-17-06, 07:37 AM
#101
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Originally Posted by crispeed
How about 25psi on 93 octane with no I/C due to it being a 'draw through' carb kit on a 13B with 9.5:1 rotors injecting methanol between the carb and turbo.
This sounds the same as we did except it was on a 12a. The methanol was pre turbo. The carb was so cold. The meth actually helped to make up the extra fuel we were lacking from the needle in the carb.
We had loads of timing in as well with very little knock shown on the MSD knock detector. The turbo dizzy stopped retarding at 10 deg adv. I forget the actual amount of timing it ran now but it was quite a bit. The enigine had 100 000 mile on it from its days as a N/A rotor but it held together. It was only pulled to expore other avenues.
I wonder if with the meth we could reduce the amount on the ignition curve. The methanol dragsters and top fuels run fixed timing. I was told around 60 deg due to the more efficent and lazy burn propeties of the fuels. I am unsure of exact numbers but i have the option to take a closer look at how th pros attack this.
There is no question that the timing will need to be advanced a load to get the best burn. I remember from earlier on this year when i ran approx 15% of my fuel as methanol i had to advance to around 17 degs before i got a good burn. I was reluctante to add so much timing in at first but it was needed. With my current set up im at 19 deg adv on a close split with post turbo egts of just under 700 deg C.
Back to my previous experiment i found i had to greatly reduce the fuel in my map after peak TQ due to the AI being controlled via the map sensor. I talking in the region of 0.78 L at peak tq back to about 0.83L after peak TQ just to keep the power up in the tune. Other more apparant observations were how clean the Lambda sensor was after tuning. There was no soot on it at all.
All this aside im currently managing to get a better tune with my ideal water meth mix. I never expected this. One propety that i did find was methanol will add a lot more TQ to the tune and had a much broader TQ band than i experiance at the mo. How eva i am still in the early stages of my tune and have taken on a new challenge with it which will run me out of time this year.
Scott
Last edited by sdminus; 09-17-06 at 07:39 AM.
09-17-06, 03:09 PM
#102
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Originally Posted by ronbros3
OK! GUYS, seeing how everybody is excited about alternative fuels, I have been asking this question for about 10yrs to rotary guys, who has run a load of NITROMETHANE thru one yet??, its time the full alky guys should try it! that is no gasoline, 80% methonal--20% nitro as a starter, nitro burns cooler as you get it fatter, its chamber pressure that kills the engine not heat with nitro. anywho my suppers on the table. kick it around. it may be the next level. RON
I have tried Nitro. It was only a small amount. to be precise it was 20 nito 80 methanol. it was injected at 5GPH with the fuel system running about 44 gph.
I did get a hp gain but i am unsure how the engine will like the thump from the nitro. Nitro has to be injected into a very rich map. It has a stoich of about 2:1.
I am told the gains from nitro would be linear from 5 % onwards. IE for every 1 % of nitro you stick in you will see 1 % raise. I found a raise in the power which would suggest this is true. Iam itching to try this in more depth but i am unsure. I plan to spend a day on the strip with a top fueler to find out more and get a general opinion.
I know the cars that run it have large engine clearances and 4.1 comp ratios. This has been my secret baby for a while but iam perfecting my system and buying a re build kit before i try any further
Scott
09-17-06, 03:16 PM
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9fd3s. ITs funny you should say 20-24 deg... I am at 19 deg adv currently. I am a little nervious about putting more in. Howeva the power has not yet peaked and the egt is still low. knock is approaching 50 at worst. There is another degree in it at least, but im a tad nervous on pump gas and AI. Power is way up tho.
I suggest that every body running AI checks out the Aquamist DDs3. the manual is downloadable. It is a monitoring system and is meth safe. I would never run with out it. It has already saved me............
If anybody wants one we maybe able to sort a group buy on it
I suggest that every body running AI checks out the Aquamist DDs3. the manual is downloadable. It is a monitoring system and is meth safe. I would never run with out it. It has already saved me............
If anybody wants one we maybe able to sort a group buy on it
09-18-06, 12:39 AM
#104
BDC Motorsports
Hey SD, this is the kind of data I greatly appreciate. This is what we're looking for -- hard facts, numbers, anything like this.
Currently I'm replacing 22% of my fuel at 15psi with methanol. Currently sitting at a 78/22 93 octane gasoline/methanol ratio at that boost. Currently sitting at 14*BTDC leading advance with a 9* split, reading betwee 1250* and 1300*F (700*C) between 5k and 8krpm, EGT post-turbo. I am also running a half-bridgeport. I'm apprehensive to advane the leading edge. I suppose I could as long as I watch the EGT but I'm still a bit nervous.
B
Currently I'm replacing 22% of my fuel at 15psi with methanol. Currently sitting at a 78/22 93 octane gasoline/methanol ratio at that boost. Currently sitting at 14*BTDC leading advance with a 9* split, reading betwee 1250* and 1300*F (700*C) between 5k and 8krpm, EGT post-turbo. I am also running a half-bridgeport. I'm apprehensive to advane the leading edge. I suppose I could as long as I watch the EGT but I'm still a bit nervous.
B
Originally Posted by sdminus
This sounds the same as we did except it was on a 12a. The methanol was pre turbo. The carb was so cold. The meth actually helped to make up the extra fuel we were lacking from the needle in the carb.
We had loads of timing in as well with very little knock shown on the MSD knock detector. The turbo dizzy stopped retarding at 10 deg adv. I forget the actual amount of timing it ran now but it was quite a bit. The enigine had 100 000 mile on it from its days as a N/A rotor but it held together. It was only pulled to expore other avenues.
I wonder if with the meth we could reduce the amount on the ignition curve. The methanol dragsters and top fuels run fixed timing. I was told around 60 deg due to the more efficent and lazy burn propeties of the fuels. I am unsure of exact numbers but i have the option to take a closer look at how th pros attack this.
There is no question that the timing will need to be advanced a load to get the best burn. I remember from earlier on this year when i ran approx 15% of my fuel as methanol i had to advance to around 17 degs before i got a good burn. I was reluctante to add so much timing in at first but it was needed. With my current set up im at 19 deg adv on a close split with post turbo egts of just under 700 deg C.
Back to my previous experiment i found i had to greatly reduce the fuel in my map after peak TQ due to the AI being controlled via the map sensor. I talking in the region of 0.78 L at peak tq back to about 0.83L after peak TQ just to keep the power up in the tune. Other more apparant observations were how clean the Lambda sensor was after tuning. There was no soot on it at all.
All this aside im currently managing to get a better tune with my ideal water meth mix. I never expected this. One propety that i did find was methanol will add a lot more TQ to the tune and had a much broader TQ band than i experiance at the mo. How eva i am still in the early stages of my tune and have taken on a new challenge with it which will run me out of time this year.
Scott
We had loads of timing in as well with very little knock shown on the MSD knock detector. The turbo dizzy stopped retarding at 10 deg adv. I forget the actual amount of timing it ran now but it was quite a bit. The enigine had 100 000 mile on it from its days as a N/A rotor but it held together. It was only pulled to expore other avenues.
I wonder if with the meth we could reduce the amount on the ignition curve. The methanol dragsters and top fuels run fixed timing. I was told around 60 deg due to the more efficent and lazy burn propeties of the fuels. I am unsure of exact numbers but i have the option to take a closer look at how th pros attack this.
There is no question that the timing will need to be advanced a load to get the best burn. I remember from earlier on this year when i ran approx 15% of my fuel as methanol i had to advance to around 17 degs before i got a good burn. I was reluctante to add so much timing in at first but it was needed. With my current set up im at 19 deg adv on a close split with post turbo egts of just under 700 deg C.
Back to my previous experiment i found i had to greatly reduce the fuel in my map after peak TQ due to the AI being controlled via the map sensor. I talking in the region of 0.78 L at peak tq back to about 0.83L after peak TQ just to keep the power up in the tune. Other more apparant observations were how clean the Lambda sensor was after tuning. There was no soot on it at all.
All this aside im currently managing to get a better tune with my ideal water meth mix. I never expected this. One propety that i did find was methanol will add a lot more TQ to the tune and had a much broader TQ band than i experiance at the mo. How eva i am still in the early stages of my tune and have taken on a new challenge with it which will run me out of time this year.
Scott
09-18-06, 02:28 PM
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Ok. Well i will see what i have. I have in the past exchanged info with howard on this matter.
The 12A was running roughly 15-20 deg of adv on pump fuel. All this on a old knackered N/A motor.
Tbh I think you have the same problem as i had in the latter stages. To start with the gains were quite large. I'm talking about 10 hp per 1 deg of advance. Bearing in mind i have a stock twin. At 17 deg adv the power peaked out. The EGT was still very low. in the region of 670 deg C. The problem with the AI kit was the fuel curve was the complete oposite of the fuel at high end. IE the delivery stayed high. I think this was the reason for the low egt. After i cut the fuel to 12.3 afr i managed a nice amount of power but i didnt dare go any further. TBH i ran out of ideas. I also had a few issues with the jets cloging ( i could not work this out !!!!!!! why should a methanol jet clog )
BTW i use a piece of software called datalog lab. It enables me to create Knock profile of on boost areas only. It also runs a very accurate power graph facility ( which i have compared to actual dynos )
I have some graphs at various states of tune i could post up.
one thing i have noticed is that the TQ is much higher with methanol.
As i was saying i think you are going to struggle to get your egt up at high end. I gave up trying in the end. My current tune is 70:30 at 330cc/1. The project goes on.
14 deg does seem a lot to me on a bridge port. I am not sure how much more i would stick in. Do you have a full 3rd gear pull at 13 deg and 14 deg that i could look at. I may be more inclined to pull 1 percent of fuel out at a time and curve the fuel map a little.
Have you fully loaded you engine up. Like on a hill with the foot break on to get it to sit in high load cells for a moment to get a better idea of egt ?
Scott
The 12A was running roughly 15-20 deg of adv on pump fuel. All this on a old knackered N/A motor.
Tbh I think you have the same problem as i had in the latter stages. To start with the gains were quite large. I'm talking about 10 hp per 1 deg of advance. Bearing in mind i have a stock twin. At 17 deg adv the power peaked out. The EGT was still very low. in the region of 670 deg C. The problem with the AI kit was the fuel curve was the complete oposite of the fuel at high end. IE the delivery stayed high. I think this was the reason for the low egt. After i cut the fuel to 12.3 afr i managed a nice amount of power but i didnt dare go any further. TBH i ran out of ideas. I also had a few issues with the jets cloging ( i could not work this out !!!!!!! why should a methanol jet clog )
BTW i use a piece of software called datalog lab. It enables me to create Knock profile of on boost areas only. It also runs a very accurate power graph facility ( which i have compared to actual dynos )
I have some graphs at various states of tune i could post up.
one thing i have noticed is that the TQ is much higher with methanol.
As i was saying i think you are going to struggle to get your egt up at high end. I gave up trying in the end. My current tune is 70:30 at 330cc/1. The project goes on.
14 deg does seem a lot to me on a bridge port. I am not sure how much more i would stick in. Do you have a full 3rd gear pull at 13 deg and 14 deg that i could look at. I may be more inclined to pull 1 percent of fuel out at a time and curve the fuel map a little.
Have you fully loaded you engine up. Like on a hill with the foot break on to get it to sit in high load cells for a moment to get a better idea of egt ?
Scott
09-19-06, 02:19 PM
#106
Racing Rotary Since 1983
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please excuse my absence since the 15th... i was about to really turn up the boost and ran into another detour, but for a good cause. a friend called to invite me to a test session near Topeka Ks at SCCA's new Natl location and home road course, Heartland Park. so we all took off on the 640 mile trek and spent monday dialing in the two cars. course record for the class, Spec Miata is, i think about 2:01.4. for the road course. we unloaded at 2:06 and got down to 2:02.4 by the end of monday. considering the track temp was 55 degrees i am real happy w the effort. i arrived home last night at 4 a m and have elected to spend tuesday getting my eyes uncrossed and will be back out alcohol testing wednesday.
i note some interesting posts in my absence...
a suggestion re 20-24 degrees IGL and lots of interesting numbers from Scott. since Julio is my alcohol go-to guy i am going to follow his advice generally. after baselining, julio recommends increasing boost before timing. i am at 13 degrees w 11 split and will eventually move it up based on knock and egt. since i have all the instrumentation i will just let the numbers point me to the right settings.
i ran into a snippet in my archives re a guy that has run 20 psi w alcohol and is tuned to 12 AFR. i had been thinking 10.5 but will tune to wherever the knock and egt lead. i currently have zero knock and 1250 pre-turbo egts at 16.5 psi. i have removed about 25% of the pump and have replaced it with alcohol.
BTW, Scott, i also have the DataLog Lab and highly recommend it. i use it as a dyno and have found it to be excellent.
howard coleman
i note some interesting posts in my absence...
a suggestion re 20-24 degrees IGL and lots of interesting numbers from Scott. since Julio is my alcohol go-to guy i am going to follow his advice generally. after baselining, julio recommends increasing boost before timing. i am at 13 degrees w 11 split and will eventually move it up based on knock and egt. since i have all the instrumentation i will just let the numbers point me to the right settings.
i ran into a snippet in my archives re a guy that has run 20 psi w alcohol and is tuned to 12 AFR. i had been thinking 10.5 but will tune to wherever the knock and egt lead. i currently have zero knock and 1250 pre-turbo egts at 16.5 psi. i have removed about 25% of the pump and have replaced it with alcohol.
BTW, Scott, i also have the DataLog Lab and highly recommend it. i use it as a dyno and have found it to be excellent.
howard coleman
09-20-06, 03:36 PM
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I really rate the software. You will need an update for it if you use the new universal software to tune with the apexi.
I am starting to wonder how lean it can go. I went back to 12.3 afr but i wonder if i really needs to trim back further than that. I was thinking that the motor would need the 12.0:1 to combust properly but after a re evaluation i think not. Would be really cool to get pete's ( RICE RACING ) take on this as he is the master in this field.
I am going to hold off until i get on the strip before i tune the map anymore as the extra fuel on the road gives me a little safty on the varst twisty roads round my house.
But i will more than likely proceed by taking more fuel out a couple of percent at a time since my knock is hovering around 50 at peak tq ( not on every run, thats more of a worse case situation ) My current nozzel placement seems to work very nicely now. i am currently at 11.0 at peak tq so there is plenty of room to play. i know that methanol can behave very badly in lean conditions tho so i am wary
Scott
I am starting to wonder how lean it can go. I went back to 12.3 afr but i wonder if i really needs to trim back further than that. I was thinking that the motor would need the 12.0:1 to combust properly but after a re evaluation i think not. Would be really cool to get pete's ( RICE RACING ) take on this as he is the master in this field.
I am going to hold off until i get on the strip before i tune the map anymore as the extra fuel on the road gives me a little safty on the varst twisty roads round my house.
But i will more than likely proceed by taking more fuel out a couple of percent at a time since my knock is hovering around 50 at peak tq ( not on every run, thats more of a worse case situation ) My current nozzel placement seems to work very nicely now. i am currently at 11.0 at peak tq so there is plenty of room to play. i know that methanol can behave very badly in lean conditions tho so i am wary
Scott
09-20-06, 06:11 PM
#108
What about this system?
http://www.fjoracing.com/index.php
http://www.fjoracing.com/products/waterinjection/
What does the methanol do to the Cat converter?
Sorry for the quesitons just getting into this stuff myself.
http://www.fjoracing.com/index.php
http://www.fjoracing.com/products/waterinjection/
What does the methanol do to the Cat converter?
Sorry for the quesitons just getting into this stuff myself.
09-22-06, 08:26 PM
#109
Racing Rotary Since 1983
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update:
i was able to make a couple of runs yesterday and am tuning my way towards my initial conservative target AFR of 10.5.
at one bar i have removed 33% of pump fuel and have replaced it with methanol. i am tuning w base fuel rather than changing the progressive settings on the alcohol system. injector duty cycles down from 87% to mid 50s.
i am now seeing tens on my afrs up from low 9s. my preturbo egts have finally climbed over 1300 so i am starting to see movement towards my 1550 objective. my timing has been 13 degrees at one bar w an 11 split. no knock nowhere.
my plan for friday was to add 2 degrees timing and raise the boost to approx 20 psi but was rain delayed.
i suspect that both the timing and afrs will end higher as i head towards the turbosystem design objective of 23 psi. my knock and egt readings will ultimately call the shots as to the endpoint settings.
for those interested here's a rundown on my systems:
raceported motor
custom designed and built by me turbosystem.... two 42 pound per minute Garrett turbos with two 3 inch downpipes.
Power FC
Datalogit
ASP large IC with twin intakes from the turbos
two Jacobs 3000 amps one each for a lead plug
two MSD #8253 HVC Blaster coils one each for a lead plug
MSD Superconductor wires
NGK 10.5 6725 plugs
Greddy type R BOV
twin oil coolers
ported gutted UIM & LIM
850/1600 fuel injectors
aeromotive FPR
cosmo pump
J&S Knock detector/retarder, boost sensative
Kenne Bell Boost A Pump
Alkycontrol alcohol system
4 gallon Jaz fuel cell for alcohol in spare tire well.
exhaust manifold pressure digitally logged// 17 psi at 15 psi boost!
fuel pressure digitally logged
both rotors pre turbo egt digitally logged
stay tuned,
howard coleman
i was able to make a couple of runs yesterday and am tuning my way towards my initial conservative target AFR of 10.5.
at one bar i have removed 33% of pump fuel and have replaced it with methanol. i am tuning w base fuel rather than changing the progressive settings on the alcohol system. injector duty cycles down from 87% to mid 50s.
i am now seeing tens on my afrs up from low 9s. my preturbo egts have finally climbed over 1300 so i am starting to see movement towards my 1550 objective. my timing has been 13 degrees at one bar w an 11 split. no knock nowhere.
my plan for friday was to add 2 degrees timing and raise the boost to approx 20 psi but was rain delayed.
i suspect that both the timing and afrs will end higher as i head towards the turbosystem design objective of 23 psi. my knock and egt readings will ultimately call the shots as to the endpoint settings.
for those interested here's a rundown on my systems:
raceported motor
custom designed and built by me turbosystem.... two 42 pound per minute Garrett turbos with two 3 inch downpipes.
Power FC
Datalogit
ASP large IC with twin intakes from the turbos
two Jacobs 3000 amps one each for a lead plug
two MSD #8253 HVC Blaster coils one each for a lead plug
MSD Superconductor wires
NGK 10.5 6725 plugs
Greddy type R BOV
twin oil coolers
ported gutted UIM & LIM
850/1600 fuel injectors
aeromotive FPR
cosmo pump
J&S Knock detector/retarder, boost sensative
Kenne Bell Boost A Pump
Alkycontrol alcohol system
4 gallon Jaz fuel cell for alcohol in spare tire well.
exhaust manifold pressure digitally logged// 17 psi at 15 psi boost!
fuel pressure digitally logged
both rotors pre turbo egt digitally logged
stay tuned,
howard coleman
Last edited by Howard Coleman; 09-22-06 at 08:28 PM.
09-23-06, 12:29 AM
#110
BDC Motorsports
Awesome. 
I am currently testing a 75/25 ratio with a slight removal in the fuel map (Haltech E6K) from load bars 15+ by a few % due to the increase in advance I put into the leading ignnition curves from about 3500rpm and above, about 7psi and up. Now running 15*BTDC @ and above 15psi of boost from 13*BTDC, also running 8* split @ 15+psi down from 11*. EGT's have dropped. AFR's are currently in the low 10's:1. Have so far hit 16.6psi on stock top mount intercooler on a hot day; EGT's at 7000rpm approx 1300*F post turbo.
B
I am currently testing a 75/25 ratio with a slight removal in the fuel map (Haltech E6K) from load bars 15+ by a few % due to the increase in advance I put into the leading ignnition curves from about 3500rpm and above, about 7psi and up. Now running 15*BTDC @ and above 15psi of boost from 13*BTDC, also running 8* split @ 15+psi down from 11*. EGT's have dropped. AFR's are currently in the low 10's:1. Have so far hit 16.6psi on stock top mount intercooler on a hot day; EGT's at 7000rpm approx 1300*F post turbo.
B
09-23-06, 03:07 AM
#111
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I am Intrigued to see what happens after the tune, When the temp correction factors start to come into play. I suspect your fuel map will become a moving target like mine did. The afrs could turn into a big rotary yoyo.
Scott
Scott
09-23-06, 06:48 AM
#112
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Originally Posted by nik
These AFR values, are they taken using a lambda->AFR table for gasoline? If so, is there a reason to tune it richer (10.5) than one would on pure gas? Would it be a good strategy to tune for the same lambda value as one would for pure gasoline?
I think this is a great setup, where you increase the fraction of methanol fuel to suit the antiknock requirements of the engine.
I think this is a great setup, where you increase the fraction of methanol fuel to suit the antiknock requirements of the engine.
Tuned for 11.66:1 on 100% gasoline;
- 75% fuel, 25% methanol, for 11.66:1 originally;
- (7.5* 11.66) = 87.45, (2.5 * 5.08) = 12.7 -- (87.45 + 12.7) % 10 = 10.015:1 A/F Ratio
Tuned for 11.8:1 on 100% gasoline;
- 75% fuel, 25% methanol:
- 7.5* 11.8 = 88.5 -- 2.5 * 5.14 = 12.85 -- (88.5 + 12.85) % 10 = 10.135:1 A/F Ratio
Tuned for 11.8:1 on 100% gasoline;
- 70% fuel, 30% methanol:
- 7 * 11.8 = 82.6 -- 3 * 5.14 = 15.42 -- (82.6 + 15.42) % 10 = 9.8:1 A/F Ratio
Tuned for 12:1 on 100% gasoline;
- 70% fuel, 30% methanol:
- 7 * 12 = 84 -- 3 * 5.22 = 15.66 -- (84 + 15.66) / 10 = 9.96 A/F Ratio
So basically the higher the percentage of alcohol the lower the AFR should be assuming you wanted to keep the concentration of unburnt oxygen the same.
The problem is your wideband doesn't measure AFR. It measures lambda. It only converts the lambda value to AFR if you tell it what fuel you are using. Most wideband setups come preconfigured for gasoline with a stoichiometric AFR of 14.7:1. So if the lambda measures 1.0 then it displays 14.7. Or if the lambda is 0.78 then it reads 11.5. However, If you change to 70%/30% mix (for example) and the lambda is still 0.78 then the wideband will still read 11.5 even though the actual ARF is now in the 9s.
The bottom line is I think you guys shouldn't need to be tuning to lower AFR's unless you have recalibrated your wideband for the blend of gas/alky.
09-23-06, 09:06 AM
#113
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If you tune with Lambda then there is no problem. You dont need the chart. It could be methnol or cola the resulting Lambda would still be the same.
I cant see that you can really adjust your stoich becasue you only have a blended fuel on boost and the amount is varied by the control unit as well.
Scott
I cant see that you can really adjust your stoich becasue you only have a blended fuel on boost and the amount is varied by the control unit as well.
Scott
09-23-06, 09:13 AM
#114
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pulsation of pump
Here is a video of the pulsation problem i mentioned earlier. You will see why i will never use one of these systems to replace fuel on a like for like basis ( untill i have the improved kit that is ;-) )
http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a32...3092006011.flv
each segment on the display is 50ML
This was taken at low boost
Scott
http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a32...3092006011.flv
each segment on the display is 50ML
This was taken at low boost
Scott
09-23-06, 09:29 AM
#115
BDC Motorsports
Originally Posted by sdminus
If you tune with Lambda then there is no problem. You dont need the chart. It could be methnol or cola the resulting Lambda would still be the same.
I cant see that you can really adjust your stoich becasue you only have a blended fuel on boost and the amount is varied by the control unit as well.
Scott
I cant see that you can really adjust your stoich becasue you only have a blended fuel on boost and the amount is varied by the control unit as well.
Scott
There's addmittedly a slight difficulty in the tuning inn terms of reading AFR under boost but I feel it is easily conquered when the calculations are made around a fixed gasoline/alcohol ratio (such as 80/20 or 75/25) under a specific load (15psi+ for example) taken from an otherwise already tuned, 100% gasoline map. The manufacturer of Howard and I's system explicitly stated that we have to start with a tuned setup to a particular load so we've got a known-good reference point to recalculate AFR's around whatever amount of fuel we take out of that tuned map to replace with alcohol.
B
09-23-06, 09:38 AM
#116
BDC Motorsports
Originally Posted by sdminus
Here is a video of the pulsation problem i mentioned earlier. You will see why i will never use one of these systems to replace fuel on a like for like basis ( untill i have the improved kit that is ;-) )
http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a32...3092006011.flv
each segment on the display is 50ML
This was taken at low boost
Scott
http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a32...3092006011.flv
each segment on the display is 50ML
This was taken at low boost
Scott
B
09-23-06, 09:57 AM
#117
09-24-06, 09:15 PM
#118
Racing Rotary Since 1983
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
today.... changes from last run are 2 additional degrees of advance and a raised boost setting. pump fuel held constant at reduced by 33%, the balance methanol. meth initiated at 5.5 psi. no increase in knock or egts w a bit higher boost and ignition advance. rolled into run.
5200----5600----6000----6400----6800----7200----7600
17----------17--------17-----16.5----16.5-----16.5-----16---boost
1111-----1144----1159----1234----1276----1286---1308- pre turbo EGT F
--3.0------2.0-----1.8--------1.3--------1.6-----1.8------2.0 Power FC Knock
--51.8---60.3------67.8-----64-------65.4----68.5----71.1 injector duty % 850/1600
4.4-----4.6------4.6------------------------------------------- TPS
22 C intake air pre methanol
15--------------------------------------15.4---16--------------- IGL w 11 split
raising boost is my next tuning step
howard coleman
5200----5600----6000----6400----6800----7200----7600
17----------17--------17-----16.5----16.5-----16.5-----16---boost
1111-----1144----1159----1234----1276----1286---1308- pre turbo EGT F
--3.0------2.0-----1.8--------1.3--------1.6-----1.8------2.0 Power FC Knock
--51.8---60.3------67.8-----64-------65.4----68.5----71.1 injector duty % 850/1600
4.4-----4.6------4.6------------------------------------------- TPS
22 C intake air pre methanol
15--------------------------------------15.4---16--------------- IGL w 11 split
raising boost is my next tuning step
howard coleman
Last edited by Howard Coleman; 11-21-06 at 07:16 AM.
09-25-06, 08:48 PM
#122
Previously I did not get a response to my questions.
-Will running this effect my converter?
-To have the both of best worlds why not use both water/meth.
http://www.fjoracing.com/products/wa...tion/index.php
This kit apparenty controls the nozzle injection via solenoid. (Like a fuel injector) so its totally mapable. But appears fairly expensive
Other kits seems to pulse the pump?
-is this the same type of programability with the other kits available?
Thanks guys for doing the research. Helps us out there that don't really get this type of stuff
-Will running this effect my converter?
-To have the both of best worlds why not use both water/meth.
http://www.fjoracing.com/products/wa...tion/index.php
This kit apparenty controls the nozzle injection via solenoid. (Like a fuel injector) so its totally mapable. But appears fairly expensive
Other kits seems to pulse the pump?-is this the same type of programability with the other kits available?
Thanks guys for doing the research. Helps us out there that don't really get this type of stuff
09-25-06, 09:11 PM
#123
Racing Rotary Since 1983
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
Rice,
a fair question.
since i am just starting the alcohol process i elected to start rich and proceed from that point. i initially took 20% out of my fuel map and was seeing 9s. i am at 32% and am into mid tens. i am primarily looking at egts and knock. i will let the afr land where it chooses based on knock and egt.
i will be raising the boost to 20-23 in the next few days of tuning.
BTW, i run a 4 gallon fuel cell. i should be able to do a number of laps at, say Road America ( 4 mile lap) on a tracking day. i also want to run the Silver State Classic next spring in Nevada. 90 miles of closed 2 lane road.
marcel, that's neat that you are running those 8253s. i run two on my lead plugs along w two Jacobs FC 3000 amps. i am happy you have your ignition working.
howard coleman
a fair question.
since i am just starting the alcohol process i elected to start rich and proceed from that point. i initially took 20% out of my fuel map and was seeing 9s. i am at 32% and am into mid tens. i am primarily looking at egts and knock. i will let the afr land where it chooses based on knock and egt.
i will be raising the boost to 20-23 in the next few days of tuning.
BTW, i run a 4 gallon fuel cell. i should be able to do a number of laps at, say Road America ( 4 mile lap) on a tracking day. i also want to run the Silver State Classic next spring in Nevada. 90 miles of closed 2 lane road.
marcel, that's neat that you are running those 8253s. i run two on my lead plugs along w two Jacobs FC 3000 amps. i am happy you have your ignition working.
howard coleman
09-27-06, 10:09 AM
#125
BDC Motorsports
I relocated my air temp sensor last night to the lower intake manifold, rear primary runner side. It's working dynamically again and even though I only did a little bit of a short run last night, I saw the temps immediately drop about 17* on the first 10psi run for a couple thousand RPM or so then dramatically rise back up again. Today is datalogging day. Hopefully I fixed any other remaining air leaks. I've got some parts to drop off at the blaster so I'll have mucho opportunity to crank it up and see what it does.
Edit: I'm still sticking to the 75/25 gasoline/methanol ratio at 15psi+ on the stock TMIC for now. However, after reading a thread that a person on TurboBuick posted about the differences between calculated and actual AFR's, I'm curious as to whether or not we're running too rich. My gut says no so I'm still paying more attention to the EGT's. More to come.
B
Edit: I'm still sticking to the 75/25 gasoline/methanol ratio at 15psi+ on the stock TMIC for now. However, after reading a thread that a person on TurboBuick posted about the differences between calculated and actual AFR's, I'm curious as to whether or not we're running too rich. My gut says no so I'm still paying more attention to the EGT's. More to come.
B